New thinner iMac

[Icaras]

As for the ODD issue... I've read and read and read on this thread, and I just don't get the issue. Why is the ODD in the iMac so desperately offensive to everyone. You can't even see the thing. Put a piece of tape over it if the slot bothers you. If taking it out will drop the cost $100 or more, sure, get rid of it. If not, why have less machine for the same money? Taking it out is not going to improve the machine any, and it could be handy for legacy apps for a couple of years. The whole argument just seems pointless.

Doesn't sound like you read any of the anti-ODD posts in this thread at all. Either that or all of it just went right past your head. Won't improve the machine at all? Where have you been? When the Mac Mini finally dropped the ODD, users got the chance to purchase some awesome BTO options including double internal hard drives and a discreet graphics card option. Please, I will gladly take more performance over a media reader I no longer use anymore, thank you very much Apple.

And no, putting a piece of tape over the slot doesn't do anything to clear any of the space inside.

 

[thekev]

I totally understand the school of thought that says why not keep the drive, but really, the more discussion there is on the subject, the more persuaded I get that there's little harm in axing it for any reason, whether it's to replace it with something else or just to offset the cost of another component.

None of you seem to understand that you aren't guaranteed anything in return. Let's say it brings their costs down because they no longer have to purchase a couple parts or deal with cutting that portion into the case. They have zero obligation to reduce the cost or add something in place of it. The people who referenced the mini don't understand this at all. There are various factors in calculating margins, and beyond that, they choose price points. If they could sell as many imacs for $500 more, they'd cost more than they do. They've got their top starting/retail store configuration just under the $2k mark. At the bottom end on the 21.5" imacs, they've got just enough spacing from the mini to separate product lines. You may just see it go away and nothing else.

In the case of the discrete card on the mini, that discrete card is worthless anyway. The vram is below the typical minimum recommendation for even lighter games and any apps with even minor gpu reliance.

Maybe the 2012 iMac will be the one to move me into Apple Land, where most in these forums reside. For me, the Mac Pro (Not Macbook Pro) would be ideal...except for the Price. I'm sorry PyStar was destroyed. A reasonably priced tower running some Apple OS was available, which offered the flexibility of a tower.

You may as well be a troll. Psystar didn't legally license any OS. You think $29 is the real cost for Lion? You pay the real cost of OS development with the hardware. Even Dell could barely compete with that price model, and they made their business on budget friendly computers.

Doesn't sound like you read any of the anti-ODD posts in this thread at all. Either that or all of it just went right past your head. Won't improve the machine at all? Where have you been? When the Mac Mini finally dropped the ODD, users got the chance to purchase some awesome BTO options including double internal hard drives and a discreet graphics card option. Please, I will gladly take more performance over a media reader I no longer use anymore, thank you very much Apple.

And no, putting a piece of tape over the slot doesn't do anything to clear any of the space inside.

The mini is a perfect example of where Apple could have done way better for the price. It still doesn't ship with a keyboard and mouse. In a usable configuration with whatever display you're approaching the low end imac in price with inferior hardware.

 

[blinkin182]

I confess that I haven't read every post in this thread, as it was getting painful to read. However, I did not spot any reference to the issue that first came to my mind... with this new skinny iMac, where does the RAM go? If we're sacrificing RAM upgradability just to become more "lean", then it's not worth it.

I have to say that I actually like the look of the existing iMac much better than the proposed new one. If I want to see an iPad on my desk, I'll just put my iPad there on it's stand. The only complaint I have about the existing iMac is that the thunderbolt display doesn't match it, for having dual displays.

As for the ODD issue... I've read and read and read on this thread, and I just don't get the issue. Why is the ODD in the iMac so desperately offensive to everyone. You can't even see the thing. Put a piece of tape over it if the slot bothers you. If taking it out will drop the cost $100 or more, sure, get rid of it. If not, why have less machine for the same money? Taking it out is not going to improve the machine any, and it could be handy for legacy apps for a couple of years. The whole argument just seems pointless.

For those of you that said "get an exteral ODD", that just seems to defeat the whole purpose of getting an all-in-one in the first place. Yes, the ODD should disappear eventually, but we don't need to rush to try to limit our capabilities just so we can prove to the world that mac is better. ODD is still alive and kicking in the Windows world, and to some extent, the music industry. If you rip the ODD out of the iMac just so you can puff out your chest and say you did it, all you've done is limit what a mac can do, and how it can be used to replace other environments. You've just added a reason to NOT switch to a mac. It's barely noticeable in there. Leave the poor little drive alone

I agree the current design is not a bad one. My main concern is getting a powerful enough machine that I can keep for many years. If it has to say at same thickness, i have no problem with that. I just wish they'd put some powerful, future proof, video card in there and support USB 3.0.

Although, eventually, Thunderbolt can be a good alternative, to USB, it is currently way to expensive, so having the latest in USB interface for cheaper external HDs and peripherals, would clearly be an advantage.

About the ODD or not ODD, I can't say I mind the DVD drive that much, however, apart from ripping movies that I've bought to play on my Apple TV or iPhone, or burning DVDs or CDs i can admit I haven't used it much lately. However, I like having it, in case I need it... I guess it is going the way of the Dodo, but I think it's still too early for this desktop computer.

It would be nice to see mass multimedia such as music, movies and apps sold on USB keys for those that still like having physical "copies" that they can buy in brick-and-mortar stores (with the help of "real" staff, helping them make their purchases), but unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time in the future...

 

[ellaimac]

Oh, and I want the ODD to stay because of PRINTER CDs, and some CD MANUALS that I know still exists, and what about some people using "WINDOWS ON A MAC" putting iso in flash drive is pain in the arse fyi.

A external superdrive is too expensive ^_^ ", not everyone is Mark Zuckerberg/Bill Gates"

 

[djrod]

Oh, and I want the ODD to stay because of PRINTER CDs, and some CD MANUALS that I know still exists, and what about some people using "WINDOWS ON A MAC" putting iso in flash drive is pain in the arse fyi.

A external superdrive is too expensive ^_^ ", not everyone is Mark Zuckerberg/Bill Gates"

So you can buy a +1000 dollar computer but not a $30 USB ODD?

This comes to mind:

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps

 

[blinkin182]

So you can buy a +1000 dollar computer but not a $30 USB ODD?

This comes to mind:

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/apps

I don't know but I doubt its about price but more about it not looking like this (on the right):

However, it's probably also about getting what you had included in last generation and which doesn't make that much of a difference in the design. I mean, it's thinner, but a little less versatile..

Floppy disks did disappear, but optical disks are still a commonly used media in many ways (music, video, software, storage...).

 

[7709876]

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hard-lines.html

Hmm....never heard it used before.

"'Hard lines' isn't used so often in everyday speech these days. Fifty years ago, when hearing about a friend's misfortune, we might have bucked them up with 'hard lines chum'; twenty years ago, it might have been 'hard cheese'. These days, the young seem to prefer 'that's a bit harsh'."

Kind of an ironic expression to use in the context.

 

[djrod]

I don't know but I doubt its about price but more about it not looking like this (on the right):
Image

However, it's probably also about getting what you had included in last generation and which doesn't make that much of a difference in the design. I mean, it's thinner, but a little less versatile..

Floppy disks did disappear, but optical disks are still a commonly used media in many ways (music, video, software, storage...).

An external ODD is not that much clutter:

 

[russofris]

None of you seem to understand that you aren't guaranteed anything in return.

If the 2012 iMac ships without an ODD, we are guaranteed that it won't have an ODD. The returns are:

1: Higher MTBF due to a reduction in mechanical parts.
2: Reduction in noise (many of us suffer from the motorboat issue, even when a CD is not present in the drive)
3: A reduction in the internal component footprint which will likely result in either a thinner/slimmer iMac or the addition/improvement of internal components.
4: One fewer places for a child to stuff cheerios into.

I'm sure you've probably realized all of this already, having taken a couple minutes to think about the implications.

The ODD will eventually go away in the iMac. Whether or not 2012 is the year for this is the bigger question. Most of the anti-ODD folk won't be too upset if an ODD ships in the 2012 model and disappears in the 2013 or 2014 models. We'd prefer it happens sooner rather than later though.

F

 

[macmastersam]

One could argue that they would like to make it thinner for the same reasons that the iMac is thin to begin with. I know that this is a "how deep? All the way to the bottom!" response, but it's one of the more compelling answers. If the next iMac were a floating, edgeless, depthless, glowing square on my desk, I would be a happy man.



While I agree that we need local storage, we're seeing a move from mechanical to flash based storage in general purpose computers. HDDs will be replaced by solid state components. Optical will be replaced by flash media (usb thumb drives for example). Mechanical devices will be moved to external purpose-built enclosures, which is what we will use if we need a big disk array or ODD.

Ultimately this will be a good thing. Faster performance, lower power consumption, smaller mechanical footprint, higher reliability. The big question is whether 2012 is the year for it. I truly believe that Apple could offer a 2012 retina-iMac with an optional external USB ODD and keep, if not exceed, it's current marketshare.

F

but then think about the price that apple have to pay out to make an imac and then the price they have to sell it for to make a profit? SSDS are currently very expensive at the moment, especially when they come at sizes of 512GB, when they come to half the price of the base iMac. but i must ask first before i get the wrong interpretation: are you saying that imacs should have an mSATA boot SSD like dell do with some of their XPS and alienware models?? like 64GB just to boot up mac OS and a couple of other bits and bobs?

Or maybe we could see the next gen imacs have just a boot SSD (256 max?) and apple could let you save your files on iCloud storage? i know for a fact the asus will allow you 500GB of online storage for a certain amount of money a year? i see apple doing this, but paying a high premium (£100 - £200/year for 500GB - 1TB?). plus, this might save power further through not having an external or a hard drive in the first place.

 

[7709876]

but then think about the price that apple have to pay out to make an imac and then the price they have to sell it for to make a profit? SSDS are currently very expensive at the moment, especially when they come at sizes of 512GB, when they come to half the price of the base iMac. but i must ask first before i get the wrong interpretation: are you saying that imacs should have an mSATA boot SSD like dell do with some of their XPS and alienware models?? like 64GB just to boot up mac OS and a couple of other bits and bobs?

SSDs have come down a lot in price - hopefully Apple pass some of that saving on.

To add a 256GB SSD to current line iMacs is £480. I can buy a top end 256GB SSD TODAY for just £180. That is £300 of a markup right there - it is as silly as Apple RAM prices!

 

[7709876]

Report here shows that only 20% of people buy their digital music online.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/21/format_shifting_conjoint_research/

I think the optical drive is a long way from dead.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Report here shows that only 20% of people buy their digital music online.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/21/format_shifting_conjoint_research/

I think the optical drive is a long way from dead.

It's less than a month away from being dead.

Digital Music isn't the impetus for removing the ODD. Applications no longer need to to be distributed on DVD.

If people want to stick with discs that's fine...it'll be $79 for the USB Superdrive have a nice.

You're in denial and setting yourself up for failure.

Mac mini - Superdrive gone
Macbook Air - Never had a Superdrive
iOS - sells millions and millions of units annually. Never needed a ODD.

It's gone people. The sooner you get out of denial the better.

 

[azurehi]

You may as well be a troll. Psystar didn't legally license any OS. You think $29 is the real cost for Lion? You pay the real cost of OS development with the hardware. Even Dell could barely compete with that price model, and they made their business on budget friendly computers.

Good points, thanks. Perhaps I am a troll when I Post, so best Not to post my opinions. What I seek in these forums is information about Apple products from Apple Users. None of us can influence what Apple does.

 

[Stolz25]

You're in denial and setting yourself up for failure.

Lol, what exactly is failure in this scenario?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Lol, what exactly is failure in this scenario?

Failure to see the writing on the wall.

Timeline :

Mac App Store -
Released Jan 6th 2011 with 10.6.6
100 million downloads- Apple Press Release December 12, 2011

iMac Sandy Bridge -

Released May 3rd 2011.


The writing is on the wall. The Mac App Store wasn't ready for a ODD less iMac for last years launch but 100+ Mac App Store downloads later is proof positive that the era of digital downloads is upon us.

Sure there's a need for some people to still burn discs but the majority that have broadband and Macs will start turning to online distribution of content.

 

[russofris]

Summarized: Re: Move to flash based storage in 2012
1: Harder for Apple to profit or cost burden moved to customer
2: Smaller local storage

1: Regarding your first point. I do believe that Apple could move to an mechanical-less iMac (much like the Air) without raising the price, and continue to earn a hefty premium. Apple would likely use a Samsung 830 given their current relationship with Samsung. Apple wouldn't simply recoup the cost from the removal of the HDD and ODD, they would stand to gain tremendously from the improved reliability of SSDs. Quite a few iMacs fail and require warranty service due to a bad HDD or ODD. The associated warranty burden would (nearly) cease to exist with flash-only PCs. Take a look at the HDD and ODD failure rates on the Air as an example, oh, wait, there are none.

2: You are correct that local storage options will be smaller. If it's any consolation, the storage will be faster. Anandtech recently wrote a writeup on the 830 and some USB 3.0 devices. While I am completely satisfied with the 830's performance, this first generation of USB thumb drives left me unimpressed. On the bright side, the results do give an indication that there is the potential for the second generation of drives to be extremely performant. Imagine, a 64GB thumb drive for $20 that is double or triple the performance of your current mechanical HDD.

ODDs and mechanical HDDs will be likely be moved to external enclosures where consumers get to choose the features and capacities they deem necessary. Consumers without the need or means for external storage will likely store their data in the cloud.

This is probably how things will play out in the near future. As a technologist, I'd be happy if it happened this year. I can understand why others are resistant, and wouldn't be surprised if Apple held out for another year.

 

[yinz]

If the 2012 iMac ships without an ODD, we are guaranteed that it won't have an ODD. The returns are:

1: Higher MTBF due to a reduction in mechanical parts.
2: Reduction in noise (many of us suffer from the motorboat issue, even when a CD is not present in the drive)
3: A reduction in the internal component footprint which will likely result in either a thinner/slimmer iMac or the addition/improvement of internal components.
4: One fewer places for a child to stuff cheerios into.

I'm sure you've probably realized all of this already, having taken a couple minutes to think about the implications.

The ODD will eventually go away in the iMac. Whether or not 2012 is the year for this is the bigger question. Most of the anti-ODD folk won't be too upset if an ODD ships in the 2012 model and disappears in the 2013 or 2014 models. We'd prefer it happens sooner rather than later though.

F

Yeah, I think whether they actually do this or not doesn't really matter to us. It's not really a debate of ODD or not ODD, but a matter of accepting reality.

Lol, I also wanted to comment on this earlier. You should put your Cheerios in a safer location..

Report here shows that only 20% of people buy their digital music online.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/21/format_shifting_conjoint_research/

I think the optical drive is a long way from dead.

Keyword here of course is 'buy' and not 'listen' excluding YouTube users, Internet radio, and, of course, pirates.

Considering the demograph of people who purchase music, I don't doubt that a majority of people that purchase it would rather get something solid for the same price as its digital equivalent.

 

[Mister Bumbo]

I wouldn't miss the ODD, but still, the Air - "light", the Mini - "small", the iMac "all-in-one". If apple decides that keeping the ODD is still beneficial for what they think is the general iMac consumer base and something that should for at least one more year be part of the "all-in-one-concept", then it will stay.

The slimness of iMac used to be Apple pushing the limits, but to be frank I don't think there's anyone out there that goes "Awwh, man! If only the iMac was 2 mm thinner I would SO get it." I think they still will make it thinner in the future and push the limits even more, but not to the extent as they do with laptops, I think and hope they'll priorotize the features before vanity.

 

[Nandifix]

An external ODD is not that much clutter:

Sorry I just have to say this... Very sexy setup

 

[nuckinfutz]

Indeed it is

I'm looking to eventually do a setup where my display or iMac is on an articulating arm.

I'll have a mini as a server and it'll be wall mounted

Hopefully I'll be able to get either wired or wireless NAS mass storage at a respectable speed.

I want an ultra clean setup. Apple could design the next iPad using materials that shave pounds. Currently the 27" is 30.5 lbs. I'd like to see them shave off another 4-5 lbs.

 

[Icaras]

Oh, and I want the ODD to stay because of PRINTER CDs, and some CD MANUALS that I know still exists, and what about some people using "WINDOWS ON A MAC" putting iso in flash drive is pain in the arse fyi.

Not a factor at all. All of that stuff is already online. Go to those companies' respective websites or do a google search.

 

[Moonjumper]

I use my ODD occasionally, but won't miss it if it goes. If I have to get an external, at least I'll be able to get a Blu-Ray one.

But if it does go, I hope to get something in return. Rumours of retina screens, anti-reflective screens, USB3, and SSD boot drives means there are plenty of options for getting that return.

 

[thekev]

Good points, thanks. Perhaps I am a troll when I Post, so best Not to post my opinions. What I seek in these forums is information about Apple products from Apple Users. None of us can influence what Apple does.

Okay maybe I was a little harsh, but Psystar was pretty much in the wrong. They were able to sell cheap computers because they marketed the use of an OS with little competition, without much of a licensing cost. I don't really have an issue with hackintoshes, as they're primarily a hobbyist thing.

If the 2012 iMac ships without an ODD, we are guaranteed that it won't have an ODD. The returns are:

1: Higher MTBF due to a reduction in mechanical parts.
2: Reduction in noise (many of us suffer from the motorboat issue, even when a CD is not present in the drive)
3: A reduction in the internal component footprint which will likely result in either a thinner/slimmer iMac or the addition/improvement of internal components.
4: One fewer places for a child to stuff cheerios into.

I'm sure you've probably realized all of this already, having taken a couple minutes to think about the implications.

Those issues are extremely annoying. I was merely saying that it doesn't guarantee you new stuff. As to thinner, it won't really grant more desk space anyway. The only point there is to make the design bright and shiny again.

 

[yinz]

To the ongoing-ODD-because-of-DVD debate.

So, I googled something random but this popped up:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/4/2998106/windows-8-drops-dvd-playback-media-center-upgrade

Windows 8 will drop DVD playback capability. Is this relevant? I'm not sure, but from just reading the title, it seems so.

Even if you don't want to pay more to watch your DVD's, the trend is definitely moving that way.