I would agree with that, except that I'd also apply the same to desktop PCs themselves: the inability to swap out the GPU is both wasteful and stupid. But that's the way Apple's gone with their machines for quite some time now...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New Thunderbolt Display With Integrated GPU Still in the Works
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I would agree with that, except that I'd also apply the same to desktop PCs themselves: the inability to swap out the GPU is both wasteful and stupid. But that's the way Apple's gone with their machines for quite some time now...
"it's also likely to include USB-C ports that support Thunderbolt 3."
WTF? That's BACKWARD! Thunderbolt can carry USB and everything else, and be daisy-chained. USB can't.
And why would we want the GPU in the monitor, when GPUs are routinely used for non-graphical computing tasks (OpenCL, duh Apple)? And they're rapidly obsolete.
Apple is going backward so fast; it's depressing.
WTF? That's BACKWARD! Thunderbolt can carry USB and everything else, and be daisy-chained. USB can't.
And why would we want the GPU in the monitor, when GPUs are routinely used for non-graphical computing tasks (OpenCL, duh Apple)? And they're rapidly obsolete.
Apple is going backward so fast; it's depressing.
Last edited:
This is very true, Apple products tend to be very all-in-one and not upgradable. Maybe I have just outgrown Apple as a computing platform because they don't seem to give me the choices I want in my computers anymore.
The latest refresh of the MacBook does have USB-C and the USB-C connector can handle Thunderbolt, as well.
Yep, Apple's discontinuance announcement suggests other non-Apple monitors are available. If they have a replacement pending, why make that statement?
Of course, an alternative reading is Apple actually made an announcement and suggested going elsewhere for monitors for a reason. This guy at Buzzfeed who knows someone who has some info sounds VERY thin to me. It clearly isn't fact while Apple's announcement is.
It wouldn't surprise me if this entire rumor of a new display is a deliberate attempt to slow down the negative comments/speculation on the discontinuance thread.
Thunderbolt hasn't seen a high level of adoption in the past five years, so it's unsurprising that it would be bundled in something else. As for GPUs, you can't even swap the ones in the Mac Pro. I still suspect the rumor is complete nonsense, given that they already announced cancellation of the old thunderbolt display without any announcement of a successor.
Edit: Note that the previous version of thunderbolt was implemented using a mini displayport connector. This one still offers the ability to daisy chain peripheral devices. For details you could always check the specification. According to the spec, it does support daisy chaining. It officially supports a greater number of features than TB1 or TB2 such as external GPUs and 15W to external devices (I believe that's up from 10W in the original TB).
Last edited:
Unfortunately, the new MacBook's USB-C does not support thunderbolt, not sure if that's what you're implying, or just in general a USB-C connector CAN be setup to handle Thunderbolt3
new MB does use USB-C port to support:
Charging
USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps)
Native DisplayPort 1.2 video output
VGA output using USB-C VGA Multiport Adapter (sold separately)
HDMI video output using USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter (sold separately)
The way to do it would be to have a pass thru port or mode so you could use your native GPU. This would make sense given things like the Mac PRo which, if updated,would surely feature a better GPU to start...
If the GPU in the display does all the actual rendering, then the cable would only need to send the instructions to that GPU in which case USB-C should be more than enough.
That being said, USB2 and TB2 should probably be enough for that, in which case any reasonably recent Mac should be able to use it. And in such a case, it doesn't make sense for Apple to suggest third-party monitors. So it may be that this new display does need TB3 (perhaps because it doesn't have a GPU) in which case only the next round of Macs will be able to use it and hence why Apple is currently suggesting third party displays.
Couldn't agree more. It's basically like buying an iMac now, you can't simply use the display years down the road because the internal hardware (in this case the GPU) will be hopelessly underpowered. It also makes the display more prone to failure. Terrible idea. A separate box for an eGPU is a superior option even if it's not as elegant.
An expansion slot or two in the computer's case would be both a superior option and elegant, if Apple ever decided to allow such a thing.
Lots of other brilliant and cheaper displays out there.
I use a Philps 40" 4K and it is clearly an early adopter choice. However, it's a dream to use with a PowerBook Pro.
I am looking at 34" displays at the moment and they all look OK.
So, I am hoping for an Apple 34" 5K to 8K display - if they want my business.
I use a Philps 40" 4K and it is clearly an early adopter choice. However, it's a dream to use with a PowerBook Pro.
I am looking at 34" displays at the moment and they all look OK.
So, I am hoping for an Apple 34" 5K to 8K display - if they want my business.
To my knowledge, you cannot sent PCIe data over a USB-C socket without a TB controller (which the current MB One doesn't have). You cannot channel PCIe over a USB connection nor does the USB-C controller enable PCIe as an alternate mode (it allows DP, HDMI & VGA as alternate modes). And unfortunately, graphic cards communicate with the CPU via PCIe.
Last edited:
What if you already have an entire computer, and you don't want to pay for another ?
Also, a 5k iMac you can not unplug it and then bring it to work/school/wherever.
Uhh what? TB3 is a protocol, USB-C is a connector. The only connector in the market for thunderbolt 3 is usb-C
But, no thunderbolt controller. Thats like saying, my usb 2.0 port fits usb 3, therefore my usb 2.0 port can do usb 3 speeds.
Its not as simple as sending the instructions, the GPU and CPU need to have a very very fast bidirectional connection between each other. Even the 40 Gb/s TB3 is not as fast as the regular internal pcie 3.0 x16. However, it seems that TB3 is fast enough for most applications and games. The MacBook only supports usb 3.1, which is not fast enough, and is not bidirectional.
Who said it needs mirroring? That's the worst possible way to go about sending content to a display. Pick content on your iPhone, AirPlay it to your TV and the TV takes over and does the streaming from that point, without the phone being necessary. That's how it works on AppleTV.
Having an AppleTV chip and memory in the new displays would allow for this and enabled anybody to sit down and use it with a remote without needing to use their iPhone or iPad.
As for proximity awareness, I don't see why this would be necessary. AppleTV is already aware of iOS or macOS devices on the network, whether they're in the room or in the house. There's no setup required. Any iPhone/iPad/Mac in the house will see the AppleTV and vice versa.
Then whether or not it has a GPU onboard, this new display is going to require TB3 which means the refreshed MacBook need not apply (not that I think it's iGPU can do 5K, anyway). So if it is coming, it will only work with new Mac models.
Therefore, it's not strange Apple is recommending third-party monitors now because those are the only monitors one will be able to use if one has a Mac now or buys one before the TB3 model arrives. One will not be able to use this new display, anyway.
I remain unconvinced. Apple used to make scanners and printers too, but left those markets a long time ago. They also used to sell normal computers that end users could upgrade to extend their usefulness, but no longer.
Today Apple makes appliances that must be completely replaced when one component becomes obsolete. The only way to repair the appliances is to send them back to Apple so they can earn even more money.
A display that can be replaced without requiring the user to buy a whole new computer, or a computer that can be replaced without requiring a new monitor runs counter to that model. A display that permits end users to upgrade a component (GPU) is the exact opposite of the Apple business model so it's definitely not going to happen.
I believe Apple considers external displays a niche they should leave to 3rd parties and external displays with non-upgradeable GPUs would be an even smaller niche making it highly unlikely to ever see the light of day.
Today Apple makes appliances that must be completely replaced when one component becomes obsolete. The only way to repair the appliances is to send them back to Apple so they can earn even more money.
A display that can be replaced without requiring the user to buy a whole new computer, or a computer that can be replaced without requiring a new monitor runs counter to that model. A display that permits end users to upgrade a component (GPU) is the exact opposite of the Apple business model so it's definitely not going to happen.
I believe Apple considers external displays a niche they should leave to 3rd parties and external displays with non-upgradeable GPUs would be an even smaller niche making it highly unlikely to ever see the light of day.
Oh, thank goodness. I lost my marbles on the other thread about them discontinuing it.
[doublepost=1466818817][/doublepost]
If you want a beefy GPU, it should be totally separate from the display. An eGPU socket isn't cheap. Apple will probably allow you to disable the GPU on this display if you want to use something more powerful, external or internal, on your Mac. No way you'd want to use the weak display GPU with, say, a Mac Pro.
So you can do laptop <-> eGPU <-> display (w/ GPU disabled), assuming eGPU is an option.
For those who don't need lots of power, a cheap little integrated GPU on this display is nice to take load off a laptop. My rMBP heats up driving the TB display, and I don't need high-end graphics, so this would actually be perfect for me and probably most users.
[doublepost=1466819857][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1466818817][/doublepost]
I don't see the point in making something neither here nor there in terms of sleekness vs expandability. A full-sized PCIe GPU socket wouldn't be sleek and also wouldn't be totally modular.
If you want a beefy GPU, it should be totally separate from the display. An eGPU socket isn't cheap. Apple will probably allow you to disable the GPU on this display if you want to use something more powerful, external or internal, on your Mac. No way you'd want to use the weak display GPU with, say, a Mac Pro.
So you can do laptop <-> eGPU <-> display (w/ GPU disabled), assuming eGPU is an option.
For those who don't need lots of power, a cheap little integrated GPU on this display is nice to take load off a laptop. My rMBP heats up driving the TB display, and I don't need high-end graphics, so this would actually be perfect for me and probably most users.
[doublepost=1466819857][/doublepost]
Apple still sells two Macs that require external displays, plus many laptop users get displays. Better people buy them from Apple than elsewhere.
Last edited: