New Thunderbolt Display With Integrated GPU Still in the Works

[a.gomez]

Another idiotic idea, and another example of Apple complicating things. Just updating their Computer line at a normal pace and introducing a real PRO dedicated GPU 13 laptop / expandable desktop solution would solve the problem. Basically what Apple had before, not this endless parade of random formats.

Not sure what cooling solution they going to use for this nonsense (who wants a fan in their monitor?). This will end up in the same hole as the people who bought into the trash can MacPro - expensive outdated limbo. Linking GPU update cycle with a monitor is a horrid idea.

 

[throAU]

Another idiotic idea, and another example of Apple complicating things. Just updating their Computer line at a normal pace and introducing a real PRO dedicated GPU 13 laptop / expandable desktop solution would solve the problem. Basically what Apple had before, not this endless parade of random formats.

Not sure what cooling solution they going to use for this nonsense (who wants a fan in their monitor?). This will end up in the same hole as the people who bought into the trash can MacPro - expensive outdated limbo. Linking GPU update cycle with a monitor is a horrid idea.

It wouldn't "solve the problem" at all.

a 13" machine is thermally limited. You simply can't stick a high end discrete GPU in there and expect it to work. It can't be cooled (and yes, here, I am sure someone will post a 13" PC with discrete GPU that's barely better than integrated that throttles like hell to "prove me wrong". Good job! You missed the point). It will also take space from the battery.

If you want a portable with high end GPU then you want a 15" machine or bigger. And even then you're stuck with some crappy mobile offering that is far, far slower than you could drive of AC power in a larger enclosure with better cooling capacity.

This is not a problem limited to Apple. If you want a high end GPU in a PC laptop (not connected to an external enclosure) you're stuck with Alienware, and they're more portable desktops than notebooks.

edit:
"pro" doesn't have to mean discrete GPU in the box. I am an IT professional and the 13" machine is fine for me. I do not need/want a GPU in the box. I want connectivity, i want quality keyboard, trackpad, display and i want battery life. Yes sure some Pro users may want a GPU. Not all.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Yeah, the announcement about the discontinuation of the current model was more than inelegant. Since that's not typical for Apple...

Assume this rumor is correct, and that there will be a new display. One can certainly announce the end of a product line if that product line ("Apple Thunderbolt Display") will not be continuing. However, that does not preclude a new product line, with different branding and a different feature set (goodbye, Cinema Display, hello Thunderbolt Display).

Although a new Apple display product may not be particularly unique/distinctive two or three years after introduction, they are normally quite distinctive when introduced. We can all guess at what that might be, I'm just going to put my money on the notion that, whatever it is, it'll have a new, distinctive product name to go with it.

As to the events of the past week, perhaps Apple was faced with the following scenario/dilemma:

1) They have plans for a new product, to be introduced in the fall (summer product intros don't get much attention).
2) They stopped manufacture of the existing product line.
3) Inventory was drawn down sooner than expected, leading to shortages/out-of-stock in some locations.
4) Apple felt the need to explain the shortages without revealing their new product plans.

Something to ponder: Apple produces far more laptops than they produce Minis or nMPs. The Thunderbolt Display's docking station-like capabilities weren't intended as much for the Mini and MBP as they were for the laptops. A substantial proportion of the laptops sold over the past several years have had Retina displays, and iMac is going in the same direction. So, a second display for anything but a MBA ought to deliver Retina quality as well (and if MBA sees a refresh/replacement in the fall, odds on it'll also have Retina). Overall, thinking about what might be a compelling companion to a laptop may be a more fruitful way of predicting what the next display product might deliver.

 

[Altis]

From my understanding of the logic they used in their statement (this is my interpretation)

once the display has been processed by the GPU, to get the displayed image to the Display from the GPU, there's no current easily solution for Apple. to carry 5k from GPU to display it would require either Display port 1.3 or Thunderbolt 3. Neither of which any Apple computer currently has.

However, since Thunderbolt is really just a fancy way of connecting PCI-E lanes externally, and Thunderbolt 2 (for now) is capable of carrying up to 20GB/s of bandwith, or equivelant of 4 lanes of PCI-E 2.0. While this wont let the highest end GPU run full tilt, it'll still be better than any integrated GPU that intel can provide. And often better than most mobile GPUs (because of thermal limtiations)

So, instead of trying to carry uncompressed, finished display images to the display, they will use Thunderbolt 2 (and 3 when available) to carry the PCI-E data to the GPU, which can then be connected via short display port to the display (all internally) or even solder it directly in and setup their own pathings from the GPU's output to the display driver.

This would further allow Apple to "thin" and "lighten" their computers by using lower end integrated GPU's for mobility while keeping on TB2 until they move forward with their TB3 refreshes. And considering TB3 is backwards compatible with 2 and 1, the display itself would still work with newer hardware.

Which is all good and well, except that they'll still have to provide enough GPU for all the users that don't use the Thunderbolt Display.

 

[kingtj]

This, IMO, isn't really quite true.

For one thing, the dual graphics cards in the nMP are usable in Crossfire mode in Windows, meaning perfectly useful for all of the Windows gaming people might want to do on it.

As for being "out of date at launch time" -- when hasn't that been the case with ANYTHING from Apple? Every single Mac Pro they sold came with graphics cards that weren't the latest models from their respective manufacturers.
I think you can chalk some of that up to Apple being more concerned with easy availability of the components in sufficient quantities at launch date, plus a desire to cut costs a little bit. (The latest and greatest GPU always commands a big price premium that disappears in 6 months to a year after it's released.)

to be fair , aside from users of Apple's media production tools, the Mac Pro was pretty lackluster for everything else. those dual GPU's are compltely useless for anything that wasn't exclusively written to use them (like Final Cut Pro). Making MOST users of the Mac Pro wasting money on useless graphics cards (that were already out of date on launch).

its one of the reasons I didn't buy a Mac Pro when it came out and I was in the market for a new desktop computer. I could have lived with the USB-3 or Thunderbolt for external drives (i have a server that I use for storage anyways).

But non-replacable, custom designed GPU's that would ONLY b able to be replaced from Apple killed it for me. What Apple should have done is start the "Mac Pro" with a standard i5 CPU and have consumer grade GPU's available as well. make each panel modules so that you can customize all 3 "modules". maybe 3 CPU's. maybe 2 CPU's and a GPU. maybe 2 GPU's and a CPU. etc etc.

Isntead, we got one of the most lack luster "pro" machines that was absolutely more form than substance

you can build today, a machine that runs laps around the performance of the Mac Pro for a couple thousand less than the entry level Mac pro, that features all newer tech. And the Mac Pro? Still the same price that it was at launch

 

[definitive]

Oh boy! This is some wonderful news. I hope they keep them priced above $1000!

 

[apple_iBoy]

Yeah I found that weird too. Only time I remember Apple driving users to a third-party was when Maps with iOS6 launched.

In 2008, Apple axed the Xserve RAID and actually put a 3rd party product from Promise on the Xserve page.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2008/02/apple-xserve-raid-is-dead-long-live-promise-vtrak-raid/

 

[nt5672]

They forgot thinner...

I wonder why they chose a lapse period in between announcing the new one?

I've thought numerous times that this lag policy sucks, but really its not so bad, because a reasonably aware person would not, for example, end up buying the day before the new hardware is announced. What is kind of last decade is not announcing the plans for the replacement. if any. Come on, its a display, do we really need the "Next Big Thing" promotion and secrecy.

 

[apple_iBoy]

Apple never released a display over $1000.

My goodness this is blatantly wrong. My lowly 20" Cinema Display was $1200 when I bought it. The first 22" Cinema Display was $3999! And even back in the CRT days, Apple had displays that ran thousands of dollars.

Take a gander through history:

http://www.everymac.com/monitors/apple/

ETA: good god the 21" Apple classic monitor was $4599 when it launched in 1994. Makes the Thunderbolt Display seen like quite the bargain.

 

[nt5672]

. . . .
If you want a portable with high end GPU then you want a 15" machine or bigger. . . . .

"or bigger" which Apple does not make in a laptop.

 

[chiefsilverback]

5K monitor + GPU sounds neat, though I just don't like the idea of my display quickly becoming obsolete (especially given the rate GPU technology advances).

Given that the GPU will be designed for the resolution of the panel, and that panel isn't going to change, can the GPU become obsolete?

 

[jonnysods]

I believe it when I see it, not when some dude at Buzzfeed says it.

 

[MH01]

No thanks. I don't need to overpay for an underpowered GPU they will put in there. Get a TB 3 egpu enclosure for when Apple releases TB3 support on macs etc

 

[CWallace]

How will this even be possible? Wouldn't the DisplayPort-out feed from the portable Mac still be faced with the limitations of DisplayPort 1.2 built into Thunderbolt 3? Thinking out loud, wouldn't the data feed for the resolution output still be coming in multiple streams to a theoretical 5K display with integrated GPU?

Rather than have the GPU on the MBP handle the rendering of a 5K image, which then needs to be sent to the display, the GPU in the display would handle the rendering. So all that would be going over the connection between the computer and the display would be the instructions to render the data - not the rendered data itself.

Which is all good and well, except that they'll still have to provide enough GPU for all the users that don't use the Thunderbolt Display.

And Apple can do that by continuing to offer "mobile grade" discrete GPUs as options as they do now. So a user who wanted the most performance available to them could buy an MBP with a discrete GPU to provide more performance than the integrated Intel GPU for when they're away and then take advantage of the more powerful discrete GPU in the external display when they're "docked". And for those who don't need "the max", but still want more performance than integrated, could go with the discrete GPU option and a third-party, less-expensive monitor.

 

[wayoutwest5505]

Waiting for updated Mac Mini with HDMI ports. Should do it with a Flat screen TV. In fact, if you can't wait for update, do it now. Mac mini Runs audio software just fine. HDMI to 32" or larger flat tv looks pretty good as well. Can cost a lot less.

 

[justperry]

Waiting for updated Mac Mini with HDMI ports. Should do it with a Flat screen TV. In fact, if you can't wait for update, do it now. Mac mini Runs audio software just fine. HDMI to 32" or larger flat tv looks pretty good as well. Can cost a lot less.

MacMini has HDMI for quite a few years, and even before that it had DVI and AFAIK that's the same protocol.

 

[HurryKayne]

It wouldn't "solve the problem" at all.

a 13" machine is thermally limited. You simply can't stick a high end discrete GPU in there and expect it to work. It can't be cooled (and yes, here, I am sure someone will post a 13" PC with discrete GPU that's barely better than integrated that throttles like hell to "prove me wrong". Good job! You missed the point). It will also take space from the battery.

If you want a portable with high end GPU then you want a 15" machine or bigger. And even then you're stuck with some crappy mobile offering that is far, far slower than you could drive of AC power in a larger enclosure with better cooling capacity.

This is not a problem limited to Apple. If you want a high end GPU in a PC laptop (not connected to an external enclosure) you're stuck with Alienware, and they're more portable desktops than notebooks.

edit:
"pro" doesn't have to mean discrete GPU in the box. I am an IT professional and the 13" machine is fine for me. I do not need/want a GPU in the box. I want connectivity, i want quality keyboard, trackpad, display and i want battery life. Yes sure some Pro users may want a GPU. Not all.

We just need a full speed Tb3 ,then a Bizon and you're done and they know it,no need to buy another lap for ages then,that is why they0re studying a way to hook us instead of making us able to hook and external egpu case

 

[BlargKing]

Oh good more reason for them to keep putting integrated graphics on "Pro" machines. Now you can pay 1000-2000$ for an external monitor and GPU combo to actually utilize your "Pro" machine.

Except they probably put a mid range laptop GPU in it like they do with the iMacs.

 

[PatriotInvasion]

Rather than have the GPU on the MBP handle the rendering of a 5K image, which then needs to be sent to the display, the GPU in the display would handle the rendering. So all that would be going over the connection between the computer and the display would be the instructions to render the data - not the rendered data itself.

If it were as easy as this sounds, and the instructions to render the data is small relative to rendering the data itself on the MacBook, than why wouldn't a display like this already exist? Seems like a no brainer, and in theory you wouldn't even need Thunderbolt 3 on the MacBook if it's just transferring instructions.

 

[CWallace]

If it were as easy as this sounds, and the instructions to render the data is small relative to rendering the data itself on the MacBook, than why wouldn't a display like this already exist? Seems like a no brainer, and in theory you wouldn't even need Thunderbolt 3 on the MacBook if it's just transferring instructions.

I would imagine cost and perhaps lack of a standard (as a vendor would want their monitor to work with multiple GPU models and vendors and connectors and operating systems to maximize the market).

All Apple needs to worry about is does it work with macOS and AMD over TB/USB-C using their version of OpenGL (and maybe Metal?).

 

[hayesk]

Yeah I found that weird too. Only time I remember Apple driving users to a third-party was when Maps with iOS6 launched.

Xserve RAID, Printers, Flatbed scanners.

 

[cBraunDesign]

This is what openGL, Metal, DirectX12 and other new APIs are about. Making more efficient use of whatever GPU resources are in the machine, in some cases, concurrently.


Yes, I do think that would be the intention - AMD have been working on this to combine their integrated APU resources with their external GPUs for some time now. And I suspect this is part of why Apple have been using AMD so much recently, in addition to AMDs general better performance on OpenCL code.

Thanks, this makes sense to me. I'm not a programmer, so many of those terms have never meant much to me, but if they're designed to allow this kind of set up, let's see it happen.

 

[Lone Deranger]

The Tim Cook Thunderbolt display is likely to contain a soldered-on Intel Iris, down clocked to keep temperatures down in the ultra-thin, fan-less, glued together case. Take my money!!!..... and give it to charity.

 

[routine_analyst]

Introducing the all-new 5K Display...

GPU & HUGE FONTS INCLUDED

 

[skinned66]

5K monitor + GPU sounds neat, though I just don't like the idea of my display quickly becoming obsolete (especially given the rate GPU technology advances).

An excellent point.
[doublepost=1466800285][/doublepost]I predict the new display will have a low to middle end GPU of the day and it will cost $399 more than the current display.