New to macOS - asking for suggestion for deletion app...

[StuAff]

AppZapper now Universal (finally) so ready for GG. Still looks and works the same.

 

[960design]

There is seldom any need to 'remove an app and all associated data'. If you don't want to see an app in the apps folder any longer, just drag it to the trash. 99% of apps will have only some settings and prefs files in the ~library folder, which take up almost no space, and cause no harm to performance or anything else.

This is the way.

Config files ( we are talking a couple of kilobytes ) may be left in ~library folders and that's about it, well developed apps completely disappear when you drag them to trash. The config files may be useful if you ever decide to reinstall the app, no need to change theme or layout, ect...

 

[Quotenfrau]

AppZapper now Universal (finally) so ready for GG. Still looks and works the same.

The app is like a journey into the past, and so is the website.

 

[throAU]

This is the way.

Config files ( we are talking a couple of kilobytes ) may be left in ~library folders and that's about it, well developed apps completely disappear when you drag them to trash. The config files may be useful if you ever decide to reinstall the app, no need to change theme or layout, ect...

Yup.

People seem to think "omg there are files left! my Mac will die of slowness!" which that's simply not the case. the files are generally small.

 

[bogdanw]

the files are generally small.

Repeating the same lie won't make it true.

 

[throAU]

you know what "generally" means, right. yes there are exceptions. If you're missing a chunk of space, fire up something like daisy disk and remove them.

Example, yes, my library folder is huge, because its all steam games.

 

[svenmany]

you know what "generally" means, right. yes there are exceptions. If you're missing a chunk of space, fire up something like daisy disk and remove them.

Example, yes, my library folder is huge, because its all steam games.

Repeating the same lie won't make it true.

The few cases I tested (three in total and chosen at random) each had hundreds of megabytes of data which would be left over. Yet, I still think that most apps wouldn't have this level of excess.

It's negligent to recommend carelessness to less knowledgable users. There really is no excuse for it considering some basic cleaning programs are free. I suspect the people who advocate the simple drag to the trash approach simply have never investigated their own system by reviewing an app cleaner's recommendation. Religion seems to have pushed aside pretty simple scientific inquiry.

Here's another angle. Once you've set you mind to such a simplistic perspective, caution is kind of thrown out. Some applications have uninstall functionality. A person might not even look for such a thing if they've been trained to just drag an app to the trash. Carbon Copy, for example, has extensive uninstall requirements. https://support.bombich.com/hc/en-us/articles/20686440822551-Uninstalling-CCC. If you don't follow them, you might even be left with APFS snapshots that won't ever go away and permanently consume space. And this consideration is not even counting the 5 GB of data that I see would be left over in /Library/Application Support/com.bombich.ccc.

But, I don't think @throAU is lying. They probably truly believe it. AND, it might be true for the apps they use. It's OK to believe it; it's not OK to preach it.

 

[960design]

Carbon Copy, for example, has extensive uninstall requirements. https://support.bombich.com/hc/en-us/articles/20686440822551-Uninstalling-CCC. If you don't follow them, you might even be left with APFS snapshots that won't ever go away and permanently consume space. And this consideration is not even counting the 5 GB of data that I see would be left over in /Library/Application Support/com.bombich.ccc.

Did you just use a backup software as your 'case' for software left behind after application deletion?
Yes, it leaves the backups behind, the entire purpose of the software. APFS snapshots can indeed be quite evil.

 

[throAU]

But, I don't think @throAU is lying. They probably truly believe it. AND, it might be true for the apps they use. It's OK to believe it; it's not OK to preach it.

I manually clean if and when required.

I stand by the view that suggesting to users to install random third party software from the internet, especially less knowledgeable users is not negligent, but worse - potentially dangerous.

So my suggestion: drag/drop. If you get low on space get a reputable program (preferably from a safer mechanism, like the App Store) like daisy disk to find out why. Probably even before you go uninstalling apps as it will help you identify which ones are the largest to get the biggest win from removing them.

Also: hundreds of megabytes in the context of hundreds of gigabytes of storage is a rounding error. If you're that short of space you have bigger problems.

 

[bogdanw]

I manually clean if and when required.

Explain how do you know if and when cleaning is required.

 

[MacMorrison]

AppCleaner works well enough... otherwise, wipe the drive and reinstall the system and apps.

Speaking of drive wipes, OpenAI's Codex client was found to destroy SSDs: https://www.theregister.com/ai-and-...ess-write-operations-costing-millions/5260402

 

[Fuchal]

I've used AppCleaner for as long as I can remember and never had any issues. It works great. I can't imagine not using it and leaving files all over the place. Frankly it's embarrassing that this isn't built into macOS at this point. The thought that you can just drag an app to the trash and be done is ludicrous.

 

[svenmany]

Did you just use a backup software as your 'case' for software left behind after application deletion?
Yes, it leaves the backups behind, the entire purpose of the software. APFS snapshots can indeed be quite evil.

No - I was trying to express the idea (and failed) that the drag-to-trash practice, if applied universally, could be truly terrible. CCC was an extreme example.

The 5 GB of stuff that would be left behind in /Library was not the backups. I'm actually not quite sure what it is. Perhaps its indexing information (from when I went searching and comparing through various backups) or backup task history. I use CCC a LOT.

Regarding snapshots, CCC uses snapshots in two ways (the same as what Time Machine does). The snapshots of the source of the backups are deleted at the end of the backup task. The snapshots on the backup target (if the task is configured to use them) represent various versions of the backup. Should one reuse that volume for another purpose, without realizing CCC put snapshots there, a lot of room would be wasted. But, Disk Utility can clean them up (if it happens to not malfunction, which it certainly does).

So, CCC was my attempt to illustrate just how bad it can get if you adopt drag-to-trash as the correct way to delete applications.

There are other extreme examples. Latex would be one. Applications that use the installer functionality of macOS leave their history in /var/db/receipts. The pkutil command or lsbom can be used to explore all the locations things are put. I discovered all of these things decades ago and was shocked to learn (coming from Linux with rpm and apt), that there was no uninstall.

 

[svenmany]

I stand by the view that suggesting to users to install random third party software from the internet, especially less knowledgeable users is not negligent, but worse - potentially dangerous.

There is some merit to this comment, but there is no risk using App Cleaner. It's been around for a very long time and is heavily used. I think you only raised this concern just now (unless I missed it earlier) when being challenged to defend your actual previous comments:

There may be some small configuration files left over but they're not generally anything to worry about and will mean if you reinstall it your settings come back.

People seem to think "omg there are files left! my Mac will die of slowness!" which that's simply not the case. the files are generally small.

But, now you've given us a sense of what you think is "small".

Also: hundreds of megabytes in the context of hundreds of gigabytes of storage is a rounding error. If you're that short of space you have bigger problems.

Hundreds of megabytes for a single app. And, if you set up new computers restoring from Time Machine, you'll probably have hundreds of deleted apps represented.

I might work through the exercise of doing test deletes of all my apps with App Cleaner and getting a sense of the total space that would have been wasted. But, even if small, that ignores the visual clutter and other potential side effects.

I've used Daisy Disk for many years (since 2011). It's a great tool. But, it would be quite an exercise to work through 200 application leftovers, each application's cruft dwarfed by the really large items (like your games). And, it takes much more competence to know what to delete than have a program like App Cleaner identify relevant content at the time you removed the app.

 

[boswald]

It might be different in Windows, but this is how I view this whole issue on mac:

There is seldom any need to 'remove an app and all associated data'. If you don't want to see an app in the apps folder any longer, just drag it to the trash. 99% of apps will have only some settings and prefs files in the ~library folder, which take up almost no space, and cause no harm to performance or anything else.

This comes up every now and then, where people feel they should 'clean up' their computer, and install some 'cleaner app' - and it's easy to understand that one can experience a feeling of satisfaction after getting rid of all the 'junk files' as they often call it. Like after a house cleaning.

But it does nothing to the general 'health' of the computer. On the contrary, deleting lots of files in batches, might easily remove stuff that you might later find was actually needed.

Some apps install big files, often media libraries etc, but most often you will be aware of this. F.ex, I have a symphony orchestra plugin/app with 50GB of audio samples. The app settings lets me decide where to store it, and therefore I'm very aware of it's existence, and I can delete it manually.

If your main goal is to free up disk space, I can recommend DaisyDisk. It sorts all files on a disk by folder size, so it's very easy to quickly find what's taking up space, and delete by 'moving it to the collector' and delete the collector. (Don't pay too much attention to the fancy 'sector' graphics in the GUI, just use the horisontal 'path' line at the top, and the vertical list on the right, to navigate.)

I think it's an old habit from the Windows era. I, too, am guilty of it at times. I wouldn't install ANY apps on my Mac because I was afraid of all the crap I'd have to remove if I ever uninstalled. Windows used to require a lot of babysitting in that regard and, as they say, "old habits die hard."