New TV Recommendation

[betman]

We also have a new[er] Sony LED set, it’s a mid-upper model, good, but still prefer the plasma downstairs.

That's the thing - a plasma tv needs a dark room, in a bright room during the day you might as well give up and turn the tv off.

I bought a top-of-the-range Panasonic plasma from the GT range and it has to go down as the worst purchase I have ever made. I have never been so very disappointed in a tv set. ..

I'll take a higher range LED tv be it the upper tier Samsung (8000 series) or some of the other great sets out there any day. Panasonic is good too if you want to stay on a budget yet still get good angles, passive 3D (much better imo than active 3D), and a fantastic menu-system which gives you more control over the picture than I've ever seen.

To get a truly great tv you might even have to dig deeper for some of those (slightly) older models which aren't edge-lit but have a full-LED array behing the screen, which means they are not ultra-slim but a little bit thicker since the lights are all behind the panel. Those - coupled with local dimming - are truly superb.

But people want slim tvs, even when they're not mounting them on a wall, so companies have shifted away from this just to shave off a bit of the thickness.

Overall my advice for today would be to get the best value for money and buy something at a low price instead of investing into something fancy and expensive. Things are currently changing with 4K, OLED, etc., so now is not the time to buy something that is meant to last a long time. Best to get something that gives you great value for the buck (which is incredibly easy these days) for the next 2-3 years and then consider upgrading once the changes have been made and prices have settled.

 

[StinDaWg]

That's the thing - a plasma tv needs a dark room, in a bright room during the day you might as well give up and turn the tv off.

No tv looks great in direct sunlight. Most lcds nowadays have glossy screens which are just as or more reflective than plasmas. I watch the majority of television in the evening as I'd assume most people do unless you work midnight hours. Getting some blinds or moving the tv to the best possible area to minimize glare is an obvious first step if you watch during the day.

It's a total exaggeration that plasmas are worthless during the day. Many have better anti-reflective filters than lcds who are going for more of a glossy look. My mom has an older Samsung plasma that has no glare filter at all and she watches tv during the day just fine. No one complained about CRTs for decades and those were extremely glossy.

Overall my advice for today would be to get the best value for money and buy something at a low price instead of investing into something fancy and expensive. Things are currently changing with 4K, OLED, etc., so now is not the time to buy something that is meant to last a long time. Best to get something that gives you great value for the buck (which is incredibly easy these days) for the next 2-3 years and then consider upgrading once the changes have been made and prices have settled.

That's exactly why I recommended the 60" LG plasma for $600. You simply won't find any lcd in this price range and size that is as good a value as this tv.

 

[zhenya]

I got a Samsung plasma from a co-worker who was off-loading it for some reason last year for $100. Possibly the best $ to enjoyment money I have ever spent on electronics. I calibrated it and while it isn't even 1080p, every time I sit down to watch it, I am amazed at how good the picture looks. Yes, it is reflective in the daytime. I put it on an arm and now you adjust it by 10 degrees and problem solved.

Numerous friends and family who have brand new LCD's have commented on how good this old tv looks. I had no idea and got into it by accident. Now I go into high-end stores, and am appalled at how fake everything looks on their flagship models they are highlighting.

Truly sad that plasmas are getting so hard to find.

 

[JAT]

That's the thing - a plasma tv needs a dark room, in a bright room during the day you might as well give up and turn the tv off.

I bought a top-of-the-range Panasonic plasma from the GT range and it has to go down as the worst purchase I have ever made. I have never been so very disappointed in a tv set. ..

Sounds like your requirements and usage for a TV are the problem. I'll bet all this brightness you seem to love gives you headaches.

For reference: my TV is an LCoS. Better than all of these.

 

[octothorpe8]

1. I sit about 5 to 6 feet away from the TV from my main lounge chair.
[...]
5. Content wise, 99% of the time I will be watching children's animated TV shows from anywhere between 2 to 5 hours a day. The remaining 1% would consist of children's animated movies and classic blockbuster sci-fi action adventure films.
6. Regardless of the content, 99% of the time I'm going to have the lights on in the room while I watch the TV.

So, you're going to sit for 2-5 hours a day five feet away from a large TV watching children's animated TV with two fluorescent tubes lighting the room...

Cooooll.... [backs slowly away]

 

[betman]

No tv looks great in direct sunlight.

...

Many have better anti-reflective filters than lcds who are going for more of a glossy look. My mom has an older Samsung plasma that has no glare filter at all and she watches tv during the day just fine. No one complained about CRTs for decades and those were extremely glossy.

Not direct sunlight, just a normally-bright living room. The threshold at which a plasma screen becomes annoying during daylight hours is much lower.

This has nothing to do with the filter, glossy vs matte, but the fact that unlike lcd panels, plasma tvs are not backlit at all. Whatever light each "pixel" gives off is all you're going to get.

Like I said, I bought one of those Panasonic plasmas that was supposed to be the best tv ever made, and personally I think it's the worst tv I've ever bought. Wouldn't touch a plasma screen with a yardstick nowadays.

But if someone wants a tv for the next 2-3 years to wait out the introduction and popularization of 4K and OLED technology, and a plasma screen happens to be the cheapest option, the it should be taken into consideration of course.

 

[StinDaWg]

Not direct sunlight, just a normally-bright living room. The threshold at which a plasma screen becomes annoying during daylight hours is much lower.

This has nothing to do with the filter, glossy vs matte, but the fact that unlike lcd panels, plasma tvs are not backlit at all. Whatever light each "pixel" gives off is all you're going to get.

Plasma doesn't need a "backlight" because each individual pixel produces it's own light, the same way that CRT and OLED do. Because lcds need an actual light behind the screen to illuminate it, unless you get a set with full array local dimming and hundreds of zones (expensive) then you'll get uneven lighting aka flashlighting and clouding. LEDs are even worse because the lights are mounted on the sides which makes it even harder to produce an even light output. You'll get brighter in the corners and dimmer in the middle. No matter what lcd you choose I've never seen one with 100% uniformity and perfect 180 degree viewing angle like you get with plasma.

I personally find the light output argument silly because anything higher than 30-35 fL is just straining to my eyes. Movie theaters are set to around 16 fL and no one complains that they need to be brighter. The F8500 plasma can get up to 83fL but I don't know why anyone would want to run it that bright.

Speaking of importance, here's the part where I remind readers that 40 fL, the amount to which I calibrate, is plenty for a moderately lit room. But if you have an extremely bright room or just prefer watching an extremely bright picture (like Vivid or Dynamic on your current TV), the F8500 comes closer to the light output of an LED TV than any plasma I've tested.

 

[zhenya]

Yeah, of all the issues one could complain about with plasma, brightness isn't a good one. I guess that's just one of those obvious metrics that stands out on a wall of competition. Not a very pleasant way to actually watch the thing at home though.

 

[jimsowden]

Some plasma owners are almost like a religious sect it seems. It's kind of like someone telling you to dump your Mac or Windows computer in favor of DOS.

This is old technology that should have been dumped years ago. The sets are heavier, use loads more power, generate more heat, hum & buzz, issues with burn-in, give away much less light because of the nature of the plasma display which is not backlit at all.

The fact that a single model generates almost twice as much light as that GT Panasonic series that plasma fanatics have been drumming about hasn't stopped them from singing praise about the old line-up in the past. Those GTs were decent for basement or night-time use and absolutely terrible in a normal room during daytime conditions.

Forget plasmas, you can get an absolutely brilliant picture on many upper range LED tvs.

Yeah... who'd push cultish broad generalizations?

 

[betman]

Overall I'm very disappointed with the picture quality of a plasma tv. And I didn't just buy *any* plasma but supposedly the "best" tv on the market.

Won't make that mistake ever again. A plasma screen is ok if you live in a dungeon. And even then I would still go for a LED tv for picture quality alone.

 

[Unami]

brightness, high contrast (local dimming), oversaturated colors and high refresh rates are overrated. if you want a lcd-tv to look good (meaning: true to the source material) you have to turn down those settings anyway. also, even if some tv's might look better/flashier,... than others in the store, that does not mean they produce a better picture - your eyes will adapt to more mutes colors within seconds if there's no other tv turned up to 11 next to yours.

have a look at this:

http://prolost.com/blog/2011/3/28/your-new-tv-ruins-movies.html

 

[StinDaWg]

Overall I'm very disappointed with the picture quality of a plasma tv. And I didn't just buy *any* plasma but supposedly the "best" tv on the market.

Won't make that mistake ever again. A plasma screen is ok if you live in a dungeon. And even then I would still go for a LED tv for picture quality alone.

I thought you were done trolling but you just had to go and resurrect this thread.

 

[JAT]

Won't make that mistake ever again. A plasma screen is ok if you live in a dungeon. And even then I would still go for a LED tv for picture quality alone.

Actually, a dungeon would not be a great place for a TV. The bare metal and concrete walls would give strange reflections that would make the colors appear off.

But you probably know that, since you know that ambient surroundings alter the video output of a TV, and you've calibrated all these TVs you are "testing", right?

 

[blanka]

Questions to ask in a store (and probably drive the seller completely nuts!)
- What is the actual contrast ratio? Valid responses are in the range 1:800- 1:5000, you want at least 1:1500-1:2000. If he talks millions, he does not have a clue.
- Does it shut off if no signal is detected and restore display on signal return? That must be a yes, since you use it basically as monitor on the Mini which will go to sleep after five minutes. You don't want that dancing "No Signal" box forever on your screen. And off course it resumes displaying when you wake the Mini.
- What is the backlight gamut and white point? That must be at least 100% sRGB with 6500K, yet it is nice to have a wider gamut, say 85-90% NTSC. 100% NTSC or AdobeRGB is TOO MUCH. Unfortunately many modern LED tv's lack in the yellow/orange/red and are more like 85% sRGB. Glossy coating is a nice way to hide this problem.
- How do I shut off all image processing, sharpening, motion interpolation, noise removal? Please show me with the remote on this model. If the process is easy and clear, your set. If it is cumbersome and lacks mentioned options: stay away.
- Can this TV show 24p without micro-judder? On what frequency does it run with 24p content, and does it have any advanced features like black or dark frame insertion?. Now he probably had it with you. If he stays cool and says it has dark frame insertion while running at 72Hz, then you are probably in TV heaven. Other nice answers: it runs at 48Hz, it runs at 120Hz with 5 times each frame. Any weird multiple is a wrong answer (100, 200Hz). And watch end credits! They are the definitive thing to check motion flow. Credits MUST FLICKER (it's only 24 hz you know), and the MOTION should be nicely PACED. If you see that one vertical transition every second is looking longer than others, the TV will show panning judder in your action scenes.

Now when you checked all this, feel free to turn on all SOAP OPERA algorithms again if it is more your appetite. At least you bought a TV that can satisfy you as well if the BluRay purist in yourself comes along.