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Instead of (or at least in addition to) Apple playing cat and mouse games with these guys, it seems like a better idea to track down the scam artists and have them thrown into prison. Problem solved. We're talking about one group (maybe just one person) here. The information they're trying to get (your credit card info) has to be sent somewhere. Track it. Find it. Arrest.

In the end, catching criminals is the only way to make them stop. They're making way too much money to just quit because Apple removed one variation.
 
Is there anyone on this forum who has *not* come across this scareware yet? Or am I the only one?

I came across it soon after installing a beta Lion. At first I thought "Oh, Apple included virus protection in Lion." but it seemed too too quick to do the scan and just didn't feel right so I closed my browser and did a web search and knew I did right. This was right after it came into the wild. Since then I turned off the option automatically open safe files in Safari and downloaded the Apple update on my Macs. Try as I may, I haven't seen MacDefender since the initial encounter.
 
Maybe Apple is behind this to convince everyone of the app store being the holy grail!
 
Apple should make a more lasting update... Apple isn't as good as I thought at this. Maybe it is too dangerous for my father to buy a Mac.

Then no computer at all would be for him because if you think this is bad for OSX then be very afraid of him getting an Windows machine.

Nothing against Windows just that it is far easier to drop malware on a Windows machine than it is for an OSX machine.

It is all about safe browsing and keeping updated no matter what OS you are on.

Get him a Mac and then put him on a user account and not a Admin account. Then only damage he could do was to the user and not be able to hit up the admin account.
 
The problem is that Mac users have been lulled into a false sense of security, many apple folks have long proclaimed that Macs don't get viruses.

Now I know this is not a virus but to the average consumer, its the same thing. So they continually hear how you don't need antivirus software and you don't have worry about that stuff on the mac platform. They don't think twice about downloading something or clicking on a link. Why worry since Macs are immune.

Many of us knew this was coming and the Mac Defender malware is just the beginning.

"Macs don't get viruses" would protect you from Mac defender. Why try to buy protection from viruses if you can't get them?
 
Is there anyone on this forum who has *not* come across this scareware yet? Or am I the only one?

I haven't. I use Chrome, so it wouldn't auto-open after download, but still. I haven't even come across it. I kinda wanted to, just to actually get a look at it.

jW
 
Instead of (or at least in addition to) Apple playing cat and mouse games with these guys, it seems like a better idea to track down the scam artists and have them thrown into prison. Problem solved. We're talking about one group (maybe just one person) here. The information they're trying to get (your credit card info) has to be sent somewhere. Track it. Find it. Arrest.

In the end, catching criminals is the only way to make them stop. They're making way too much money to just quit because Apple removed one variation.

Very naiive of you.

Also, catching criminals is always after the fact. Better education and society would stop the creation of criminals.
 
From the "start"?

You are kidding, right? You realize that OSX is the tenth version of Apple OS? I think that the "START" was in 1984, not OSX 10.0.

The start of when Apple used UNIX, as I said. That was in 1988. UNIX is/was more secure than MS-DOS and NT.

I didn't say "from the start", I said, "from the start by using UNIX", implying that it was from when they started using UNIX. I know what the "X" means :)
 
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I'm amazed people have nothing better to do than create viruses and malware all day. Imagine what could be achieved if people used their time and skills to do something useful for society. Hope they goof up, get traced and held accountable.

Apple probably couldn't trace them legally because you'd probably have to hack around to gather info. A law enforcement agency could probably do it if they wanted to spend the time (but i doubt they would). An individual might be able to if they were willing to risk themselves and spend the time hacking various servers to retrieve the traces of these people. I guess it all depends on how good the malware writers are...
 
Originally Posted by snberk103
My thinking is that now Apple has addressed this particular malware, it will soon (matter of weeks) fade away....

Following that logic, there shouldn't be any viruses/malware/... for windows anymore.

The game has just started and will continue forever. Now even Mac Users have to be more careful what to click on. Even if Apple updates the database as fast as they can, there will always be a 'lead' by malware programmers, it first has to show up in the wild until the signature can be put in the database.

That's why I was speaking specifically of this malware. If the next "new" (not a "variant") malware is also trojan, then Apple's protection scheme should also be effective, since the signatures can be updated rather quickly.

Where Windows has a challenge is that the AV signatures need to released by multiple sources. Plus, the malware authors have figured out all sorts of different ways to get at a Windows system. I'm not going to claim that Windows is more vulnerable at this point ... but the bad guys have had more time, and more reasons, to figure out the weak-points.

If OSX is architectually more secure (and we are about to find out), and it turns out that the only avenue of attack are these social-engineering trojans, then Apple has a big advantage. The protection scheme signatures can be rolled out very quickly. Quickly enough to make the pay-off unattractive.

It doesn't make OSX invulnerable to trojans. Just makes it not really worth the while to write them.
 
Props to those guys beating Apple at this.

As much as you can hate windows, MS has been very serious about security on Windows with a much tighter security system in Windows 7. Not saying that they had already not needed that, but they have been very careful and have come strong on viruses and malware.

Apple, you need to tighten up here.
I'm surprised you're getting so much hate for this simple statement of fact. Microsoft has had a huge historical problem with malware (including viruses etc), and it took them some time to respond effectively to it; it wasn't until NT that Windows started to get a half-decent security model, but even then they struggled a lot with legacy bad code and was forced to maintain running patches while business was forced to accept Microsoft's apologies and assurances that this time around, they had fixed all the issues. It took a complete rewrite with Vista, as bad as it was implemented at first, to get decent security, arguably by security experts better than Apple's. As a direct result of the constant barrage of attacks on their OS, they HAVE built up a good security response unit and hired various security experts to try and get on the top of it as it was damaging their reputation badly. Apple hasn't had the same problems with OSX before, although the Classic MacOS was as insecure as Windows 3/95/98/ME. There are signs they have been taking potential malware more seriously for a while now, having made some prominent hires and implemented some serious security measures into OSX 10.5 up, all incomplete but by each iteration getting better, and Lion looks to have beefed it up even more, finishing what was started in Snow Lion. A proper integrated anti-malware/trojan/virus is the last link, having done what appears to be a thorough job on securing the system, even if hackers might still find weaknesses in new software, most likely through web-facing programs like Quicktime and Safari, but Webkit2's integration of sandboxing will make this very difficult.
The weakest link will always be the user, and as you seek to make a consumer OS for non-techy users, you have to expect a lot of people with poor safety knowledge, people who barely know how to use a computer, people who are easily scammed believing and clicking any popup they see. At least, on OSX, they usually have to actively type a password rather than just clicking a button to install which does give a chance to make people stop and think, but for a good scam/trojan that is not a barrier. On both Windows and OSX, trojans and malware are the current trend, as both systems are locked down harder against conventional viral and hacker attacks.
In the end, every system has to allow a user to install the software they want to, even when they ignore advice and warnings. There are also no lack of people who know enough to be dangerous deliberately seeking out pirate copies of expensive software, especially MS Office and Adobe products, who take a chance from seedy sites and bittorrents from unknown sources. Without an integrated antivirus/malware tool, there is little those people can do to check, and even then they may be at the forefront of a new variant or attack.
There is no question that Windows 7 is by far the best OS and most secure that Ms has produced, there is no point in the naysayers attacking you or anyone else on that point. Similarly, their integrated Security Essentials tools has proved very effective, scoring well in comparisons with more complete security suites from various online reviews. It is not a bad idea for Apple to integrate something similar, which they seem to be doing gradually starting with Snow Leopard. Turning on an outbound firewall would also help, or at least provide a good front end for the existing very good IPFW which is active along with the Applications firewall, but has no rules set up. IPFW is an old-school BSD firewall, but hasn't had a good frontend and not as simple to administer as the Applications firewall. Maybe with the integration of Server in Lion, we will get one., I haven;t heard mention of it. But in the end of theday, it is a priority of Apple to balance security with user friendliness, if things stop working because of a firewall, people will blame the OS and Apple. At least providing the tools and some user education on first run would be a good idea. Alternatively, Apple could do worse than implement something like Little Snitch, perhaps by acquiring it and integrate it.
 
The start of when Apple used UNIX, as I said. That was in 1988.

The Wikipedia must be wrong again - it says that Apple OSX 10.0 (Cheetah) shipped on 24 March 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osx#Version_10.0:_.22Cheetah.22) - 13 years later than 1988.


I didn't say "from the start", I said, "from the start by using UNIX", implying that it was from when they started using UNIX. I know what the "X" means :)

Then we have a different semantic interpretation of the English language.

If you'd said "from the start of using UNIX" - then I'd agree that you are referring to Apple OS systems released from March 2001 and later.

If you use the preposition by, however, that covers Apple OS 1.0 from 1984 - which was not UNIX-based.


UNIX is/was more secure than MS-DOS and NT.

I'm happy that you included "was", since NT (which includes Windows 7) even today has some security features that put classical UNIX to shame (access control lists, address randomization, signed kernel components and groups/group policy immediately come to mind).

Windows problem hasn't been primarily that the kernel is inherently less secure, it's that the policies (all users were admins, most ports were open) imposed on the system for application compatibility reasons created huge holes in the security.

I maintain a number of corporate systems that are outside our firewall - and it's bloody scary what you have to do to protect them - for UNIX/Linux/Windows systems the issues are the same. It's made much easier since they're all servers, and you don't have to worry about a naïve user clicking [OK] to a random browser popup.
 
Windows problem hasn't been primarily that the kernel is inherently less secure, it's that the policies (all users were admins, most ports were open) imposed on the system for application compatibility reasons created huge holes in the security.

I maintain a number of corporate systems that are outside our firewall - and it's bloody scary what you have to do to protect them - for UNIX/Linux/Windows systems the issues are the same. It's made much easier since they're all servers, and you don't have to worry about a naïve user clicking [OK] to a random browser popup.

Agree that Windows Vista/7 - kernel security much improved. XP not so OK. Regardless, usual desktop Windows attack vector is browser javascript, flash, PDF's. That's why I when I have to run on Windows I always use Firefox, turn off JS by default (noscript), flash (flashblock), and sometimes use a different PDF reader (PDF's are a big problem ...). Fortunately, I don't have to admin Windows boxes professionally -- I have no idea what I would do about Flash. It is everywhere, even on internal corporate websites where it does nothing functionally necessary whatsoever, but, you can't use the sites without it, so, people tend to think they need to leave it on, etc. I wish Adobe would get really serious about security...
 
Keystone Coders

Bug in Apple’s Malware Detection Settings May Lead to Mistaken Preferences

http://blog.intego.com/2011/06/01/b...on-settings-may-lead-to-mistaken-preferences/

That's beautiful - Apple software development looks like the "Keystone Cops".

Not only did they manage to block MACDefender for all of 8 hours, something else was messed up.

The message is priceless:

An operation failed in launchdadd for reasons that you probably can't do anything about. Maybe you should reboot.

Maybe you should reboot to a different OS ;) .
 
Lol

Hahaha, it must be very annoying for Apple. I think whoever is doing this must have been fired by SJ a long time ago, and now he's back, for revenge!

I think he just showed that malware can be easily installed on a Mac (I know you have to do 'next->next->install'), but nobody bothers. Poor guy, he should give up now, unless he's earning a lot from it.
 
Hahaha, it must be very annoying for Apple. I think whoever is doing this must have been fired by SJ a long time ago, and now he's back, for revenge!

I think he just showed that malware can be easily installed on a Mac (I know you have to do 'next->next->install'), but nobody bothers. Poor guy, he should give up now, unless he's earning a lot from it.

He's getting plenty of publicity out of it and ruffling a lot of feathers.
 
The current version of the malware does not require you to enter password to confirm installation. i.e. you can go on a webpage, drive by download and auto launch. If you press ok, then installation happens.

Does mac os have security / application conformity measures to:

- disable auto open/run after download (I think this is the auto run list but it is not designed to show details)
- user must enter password to confirm installation
- can malware eliminate the next>next buttons? i.e. careless press one button and you are toast.
- rename buttons, i.e. purposely map both "ok" and "cancel" as "ok"
 
The Wikipedia must be wrong again - it says that Apple OSX 10.0 (Cheetah) shipped on 24 March 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osx#Version_10.0:_.22Cheetah.22) - 13 years later than 1988.

You could buy Macs running A/IX in 1988. A curious combination of Unix and classic MacOS.


Actually the people who write the malware are quite smart.

They are employed by and work for criminals. Makes it hard to negotiate for a good salary (my boss won't break my kneecaps if I ask for more money), makes it hard to change jobs (my boss won't kill me if I leave the company), there is always the danger that eventually you might visit a prison cell, so I don't think they are very smart.
 
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That's beautiful - Apple software development looks like the "Keystone Cops".

Not only did they manage to block MACDefender for all of 8 hours, something else was messed up.

The message is priceless:



Maybe you should reboot to a different OS ;) .

Considering the number of systems I've had to repeatedly clean "Winwebsec" off of, that has bypassed fully-updated Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes, I'd be curious as to what OS you might be suggesting?
 
Troll?

:(

I use Windows 7 for some of my work. My main machines are OS X and SunOS.

What I am trying to say that MS has showed a lot of effort on the security side which Apple has not, yet.

If you think I'm wrong, fine. But I don't see how I am biased towards Microsoft in this regard.

Yes, but how many years did it take Microsoft to finally wake up to the problem? Years hell, how many decades? I'm not sure if you remember the time way way WAY back when Windows 3.0 was still new or when 95 came out and all the ActiveX stuff and their idiotic decision to make every file window in the OS a "browser" and all that fiasco. How long before MS even started acknowledging they had a problem? Security patches? That was unheard of back in the dark-ages of the OS.

Sure, Windows 7 may be the culmination of hard-learned lessons now. But do you think Apple will sit back on their laurels as MS did for decades and not try to stay on top of this? They're not stupid...they know what Malware can do to an OS ecosystem.

Having said that, only time will tell if they will or not. I'm "assuming" they're not going to be stupid about it.
 
I see the first 2 posters got battered but they are right. Are people still clicking continue on when an "unknown" piece of software has been downloaded?

I honestly don't get it :shrug:
 
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