New York Attorney General Calls for Summit with Cellphone Makers to Combat Device Theft

[Tiger8]

Agreed. There must be a way that either Apple or the cell phone companies can disable the phone remotely and wipe the user data so it can't be re-programed and re-sold. Then send the owner a secret pin code so that if they do get it back through the police they enter the code and it works again. How hard can it be.

If Apple advertised this as a feature of the iPhone then eventually thieves would stop targeting them and Apple would probably sell more iPhones because of this feature. It's a win win situation.

But again, Apple benefits from device theft! Why should they go out of their way to address it? Just like Apple benefits from people droping their devices breaking the screen and water damage.

I am not saying Apple encourages such things, but they certainly don't mind them as they translate to sales

 

[toaster64]

First the patent trolls and now this. I thought neither of these things would ever get attention. Finally!

Also, I've been to NYC. The police there are really kind and professional.

 

[Millah]

Isn't it funny how politicians argue "free market" dogma until they're blue in the face, and then hold summits like this essentially telling manufacturers "we KINDLY request that you deploy technology that we want you to deploy "

Its kind of a sticky situation for Apple. Clearly they're developing biometrics technology that would certainly fit the bill, but they also don't want to show their hand too early while all the other manufacturers are sitting there in the same room with Apple listening in.

Why doesn't the govt. let the free market work like they are constantly preaching. Let the manufacturers invent their own implementations if they feel its worth exploring, rather than being bullied by the govt to do as they say. I've never heard of any other industry where manufacturers were responsible to do the job of law enforcement.

 

[bencjedi]

I think all phones should use the camera to snap a photo of whatever unsuccessfully attempts to unlock it and email it wherever (and when possible) to a user-set address. At least then you might get some glimpses of the punk who stole your phone that the police can look for.

 

[buymeaniphone]

I'm confused. How is this not already resolved with the Find My iPhone app which lets you erase the contents of the phone and lock people out?

 

[Plutonius]

Just more political grandstanding from a NY DA.

 

[PatrickCocoa]

Stonewall

So, if you make it so that the phone becomes COMPLETELY inoperable. What happens when someone gets a hold of your account information and does that to your phone? (if it's something the user does themselves). Then you're up a creek.

I dont think this guy has really thought this through.

Thinking it through is not his point. The point is for this guy to get his name in the papers in a favorable light. It's always possible he actually thinks this might work, but that's a secondary consideration.

Any attempt by the manufacturers or carriers to think it through (by examining ways the bad guys could misuse this power or looking at edge cases or examining exactly how to implement it) will be portrayed as "stonewalling" or "putting profits before people".

 

[M-O]

Firmware password.

 

[CubusX]

Sonund sounds off...

So the phone makers are going to be held more accountable for the theft of cellphones than the people stealing them in the first place?

Sounds about right....

 

[JohnDoe98]

Isn't it funny how politicians argue "free market" dogma until they're blue in the face, and then hold summits like this essentially telling manufacturers "we KINDLY request that you deploy technology that we want you to deploy "

Its kind of a sticky situation for Apple. Clearly they're developing biometrics technology that would certainly fit the bill, but they also don't want to show their hand too early while all the other manufacturers are sitting there in the same room with Apple listening in.

Why doesn't the govt. let the free market work like they are constantly preaching. Let the manufacturers invent their own implementations if they feel its worth exploring, rather than being bullied by the govt to do as they say. I've never heard of any other industry where manufacturers were responsible to do the job of law enforcement.

I guess you are opposed to seat-belts in cars?? Is that against the free-market?

 

[brdeveloper]

What's the problem with a firmware password like the one which exists in Macs? I think my Macbook is pretty safe with EFI password, Undercover and FileVault. Basically, the theft must install a compatible image from another Macbook, remove the hdd an install in my laptop. However, the most probable thing the theft will do is playing with my Mac before trying to do something more sophisticate.

If Android/iOS provided some boot password that could prevent someone from flashing a brand new firmware into the phone it would be nice.

 

[JohnDoe98]

What's the problem with a firmware password like the one which exists in Macs? I think my Macbook is pretty safe with EFI password, Undercover and FileVault. Basically, the theft must install a compatible image from another Macbook, remove the hdd an install in my laptop. However, the most probable thing the theft will do is playing with my Mac before trying to do something more sophisticate.

If Android/iOS provided some boot password that could prevent someone from flashing a brand new firmware into the phone it would be nice.

Exactly, just impose a firmware password on devices that are remotely wiped. As the Apple TV 3 has demonstrated, if they apply themselves they can lockout jailbreakers.

 

[Rajani Isa]

What Schneiderman should be asking is what are device owners doing to prevent theft?

People need to stop leaving their devices out and unattended where they can easily be stolen. You wouldn't leave your wallet or a wad of money out and unattended, would you? Treat the device like a wad of hundred dollar bills.

.... blaming the device makers and expecting them to try to prevent theft when it should be the owners.

So you never use your phone in public?

Unless you have some study that would be interesting to look at saying the majority of stolen phones are people leaving them out unattended?

Prime hacker incentive too,

Hey Apple, I hacked the self destruct database and will destroy 30 million phones if you don't send 1 meeeliion dollars to my swiss bank account.

Mat Honan comes to mind. The guy who had his Gmail account deleted and iDevices wiped because some people didn't want him able to reclaim his Twitter account that they hacked along with his Gmail.

I'm confused. How is this not already resolved with the Find My iPhone app which lets you erase the contents of the phone and lock people out?

Find My Phone can be circumvented by entering DFU mode.

 

[idioma]

Easy.

All that device manufacturers have to do is agree on a standard interface with carriers. When you buy a new device and activate it with a carrier, a 256-bit string could be generated that ties the phone's serial number with the carrier's unique identifier and a user-generated pin. This 256-bit "key" would then be embedded onto a dongle with matching serial.

In the event of a theft, the owner can simply call their carrier and have the device disabled. Using the phone's unique carrier ID, the network sends out a "lock" command to the device the moment it connects to the network. Once in lock mode, the phone periodically sends out GPS coordinates via SMS and all other functions are locked. To "unlock" the device, the original owner must physically pair the phone with the dongle and enter their pin.

A couple holes that Apple should patch regardless of my imaginary protocol:

-Require a pin to power off the phone. This prevents thieves from taking a phone "offline" when they steal it.

-"Stolen Mode". Give users the option to create a trigger for entering the wrong password more than (X) times--automatically locking the phone and put it in a mode where it ignores all physical buttons and merely transmits GPS coordinates via email or SMS.

-Activation Key. Sell the device with a peripheral which is needed if the device is factory reset or prior to activating a new SIM or accessing a new Cellular Network. People won't carry the dongle/peripheral with them at all times but thieves wouldn't have much use without it.

 

[jmoore5196]

i hate how the tone of this suggests that it's apple's, google's and other phone manufacturer's responsibility to deal with theft. you can build safeguards in, but to pass the blame or even suggest that they're at fault is ludicrous

Next month, we can have a summit with the world's automobile manufacturers to see if we can find ways for them to build cars criminals won't want to steal.

 

[techwhiz]

Database Not Live Until Nov.

While all four major U.S. carriers implemented a shared database to track stolen mobile phones last year, it has proven to be largely ineffective at cutting down on device thefts.

Article Link: New York District Attorney Calls for Summit with Cellphone Makers to Combat Device Theft

The database is not live across all carriers yet. DOH!!!
So I guess it would be ineffective.
AT&T and T-Mobile launched a joint database.
Verizon and Sprint have have or will launch one.
They are supposed to be merged later this year (Nov.).

How can it be effective if it isn't rolled out????

Lock your phone. Set it up to take a picture if the thief tries to unlock it. Track with GPS and allow remote wipe.

 

[John.B]

"about why they have not yet developed technology that renders stolen mobile devices inoperable, eliminating the incentive for theft."

Just wait until the scriptkiddies learn how to hack a killswitch on an iPhone or Galaxy...

 

[Verbatim Cookie]

Here's a link to the actual press release from A.G. Schneiderman. Read it for yourselves; don't be satisfied with HuffPo or MacRumors telling you what it says. (Not that I think it makes Schneiderman look all that good.)

So D.A. Gascón will travel to NYC for this summit? I wonder how the taxpayers in San Francisco feel about paying his travel expenses. Can't he participate remotely?

Lol, two of the four "hardware manufacturers" are not even that.. they're OS designers. This idiot politician is confused. If he wants it done at the OS level- ms, apple, and google make sense... Why is samsung there? Or if he wants it on the device, why are google & ms there? And not nokia & htc? This goofball just sent out random invites to tech companies with ZERO understanding of their roles in the industry.

microsoft is one of the four major smartphone manufacturers???

RTFPR. It calls them "cell phone manufacturers and mobile operating system suppliers." (However, it does refer to "Google/Motorola," seemingly implying that Motorola is one of "the largest players in the smartphone industry." Come to think of it, Microsoft isn't one of the largest players in the industry, either, if you go by market share.)

people who steal cell phones which also function as gps' are stupid. they're basically stealing expensive tracking devices

Hello? These thefts are occuring — a lot, apparently.

What a joke.

Just what we need, more laws that will fail to be enforced, and totally ineffective anyway.

The thieves will be completely unaware, since they're too busy doing what they do best, and profiting from it.

I imagine that any proposed new laws would target smartphone manufacturers and/or wireless service providers, just as auto manufacturers have to offer vehicles with certain safety features. Such laws are easily enforced.

Also, I've been to NYC. The police there are really kind and professional.

I live in NYC. I've had positive and negative experiences with the NYPD. There are good cops and bad cops, good days and bad days. But one thing that's almost a given is that a NYPD cop will try to dissuade you from filing a police report because his/her superiors want to keep the crime stats in their precinct down.

Isn't it funny how politicians argue "free market" dogma until they're blue in the face, and then hold summits like this essentially telling manufacturers "we KINDLY request that you deploy technology that we want you to deploy "

Uh, it's only conservative Republicans who sing the praises of free markets. Schneiderman's a Democrat.

Next month, we can have a summit with the world's automobile manufacturers to see if we can find ways for them to build cars criminals won't want to steal.

But auto manufacturers already equip their products with security measures. Why can't the smartphone industry be like the auto industry in this regard? Some people have posted reasonable answers here; let's see what these companies say themselves.

(Off-topic: This morning on The Today Show, there was a story about thieves having recently acquired some sort of device that allows them to unlock a car as if they are in possession of the remote lock/unlock key fob for that car, which is supposed to be nearly impossible to clone. )

By the way, I have a vague recollection that the editorial board of The New York Times endorsed Schneiderman's Republican opponent in the last election. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[sw1tcher]

So you never use your phone in public?

Unless you have some study that would be interesting to look at saying the majority of stolen phones are people leaving them out unattended?

When I'm out and about, my phone never leaves my sight if it's not in my hand or pocket... just like my wallet and laptop and car keys.

Thieves must be running up to victims and snatching the phones right out of their hands or pick pocketing them or breaking into peoples homes to steal them.... how else are they being stolen if they're not unattended?

 

[xodiak]

Someone must be getting ready to run for congress. Grandstanding.

 

[canman4PM]

When I'm out and about, my phone never leaves my sight if it's not in my hand or pocket... just like my wallet and laptop and car keys.

Thieves must be running up to victims and snatching the phones right out of their hands or pick pocketing them or breaking into peoples homes to steal them.... how else are they being stolen if they're not unattended?

That's exactly how they're being stolen. I've read in a couple of the past rumors here how they basically either snatch and bolt, or they mug you for the phone. Kinda like Reebok Pump sneakers or Chicago Bulls jackets 25 years ago.

I think a simple solution would be an international database of Serial Numbers. As each is created it goes into the db with the carrier's name on it and flagged "Pending". When activated it gets flagged as "Active;" when stolen as "Lost/Stolen;" when you've upgraded your phone, as "Inactive." If a used phone goes to a carrier, they search the db and if it comes up as "Inactive" they re-activate and update the db. If it comes up as "Active" they contact the last carrier to find out what's going on - this would prevent thieves from making up serial numbers. If it comes up as "Doesn't exist" it's also probably a stolen phone with a faked serial number. If it comes up "Lost/Stolen", well, that's easy. This will not prevent rings of thieves from stealing the phones and moving them to some non-participating ****-hole of a third-world country, but it will eliminate the market for the crack-addicted lowlife and keep him/he from thumping you on the head an making off with your beloved iDevice. It would do for portable electronics like the passive immobilizer has done for the automobile.

 

[topper24hours]

That's exactly how they're being stolen. I've read in a couple of the past rumors here how they basically either snatch and bolt, or they mug you for the phone. Kinda like Reebok Pump sneakers or Chicago Bulls jackets 25 years ago.

I think a simple solution would be an international database of Serial Numbers. As each is created it goes into the db with the carrier's name on it and flagged "Pending". When activated it gets flagged as "Active;" when stolen as "Lost/Stolen;" when you've upgraded your phone, as "Inactive." If a used phone goes to a carrier, they search the db and if it comes up as "Inactive" they re-activate and update the db. If it comes up as "Active" they contact the last carrier to find out what's going on - this would prevent thieves from making up serial numbers. If it comes up as "Doesn't exist" it's also probably a stolen phone with a faked serial number. If it comes up "Lost/Stolen", well, that's easy. This will not prevent rings of thieves from stealing the phones and moving them to some non-participating ****-hole of a third-world country, but it will eliminate the market for the crack-addicted lowlife and keep him/he from thumping you on the head an making off with your beloved iDevice. It would do for portable electronics like the passive immobilizer has done for the automobile.

I love your idea. Sadly this article did NOT have the title- "New York DA in talks with CARRIERS to implement an international stolen phone database", seems this nutjob would rather ask Samsung for help? Lol, bizarre...

 

[The Monkey]

The title of this article is incorrect. It should be "New York Attorney General Calls for Summit..."

Schneiderman is the AG for NYS.

 

[idioma]

When I'm out and about, my phone never leaves my sight if it's not in my hand or pocket... just like my wallet and laptop and car keys.

Thieves must be running up to victims and snatching the phones right out of their hands or pick pocketing them or breaking into peoples homes to steal them.... how else are they being stolen if they're not unattended?

My phone was recently stolen by some street thugs, I was sitting at a table, got a text, pulled out my phone and read it. The very second I put it down on the table one of them grabbed it and took off running. We gave them chase through an unlit parking lot and my buddy even tried to stop their getaway vehicle from leaving but failed.

The issue here is that all of the advantages are on the criminal side. You can't very well (legally) assault someone just because they stole your property, you certainly can't use deadly force, and the thief stands to gain a lot more by stealing your phone than you do by physically resisting the theft. My friend grabbed the steering wheel of their car and was riding on the outside of it for probably 200 yards before finally dropping off and I doubt that even facing that kind of resistance the thieves even considered for a second returning the stolen property.

Oh, and you can forget about the cops doing anything about it. I used "Find My iPhone" to track it and called the police to report the location. Their response: "What do you want us to do about it? It's your word against theirs that it's stolen." That was even after I'd filed a police report.

 

[katewes]

I'm confused. How is this not already resolved with the Find My iPhone app which lets you erase the contents of the phone and lock people out?

There are two separate issues here:

1) iPhone gets lost, and when thief connects to internet, Find-My-Phone helps locate the lost iPhone.

2) Thief steals iPhone and totally wipes out data, and sells iPhone on the black market. I am not aware that, once wiped, that Find-My-iPhone still works. Politicians are trying to get Apple to make it more difficult for thieves to just wipe the iPhone clean and selli it as a 2nd hand phone.

If thieves could not do this, iPhones would not be such an attractive target for theft.