New York Attorney General Calls for Summit with Cellphone Makers to Combat Device Theft

[mwebb]

The risk of theft vs. the risk of state sponsored "turn offs"

Scoff if you want to, but building in "kill switches" gives a government potentially a huge ability to just kill phones en masse.

Also how about an ex-spouse or significant other bricking your phone?

What about virtual "repos" by phone companies if you don't make the last two or three payments - easier to accept if a default comes at the beginning of a contract, harder to accept if it comes at the end of a contract.

All to protect people who pay no attention to their surroundings, and have the latest devices (iPhone thefts are pretty selective)?

Why don't we pass a law banning all daypacks except PacSafes, and requiring the use of both straps plus waist strap at all times?

Some of these ideas sound great until you run out the "that would never happen" scenarios like an "Arab spring." Then you wonder how important indecipherable Black Berry phones are to movements like that ... and figure out why Middle Eastern governments want to have lower encryption standards or back doors ....

Meanwhile our own government is building up the capacity to turn NSA levels of surveillance against our own citizenry - starting with warrantless inspection of your emails/web browsing, with internet companies like Google forbidden from even notifying their customers.

Yeah it's benign now and no one wants another 9-11. But all you need if for things to slide sideways, get a bad administration in office, and the IRS scandal will be peanuts. J Edgar Hoover was able to keep most Senators and Congresspersons in line with old-style tech. Wait and see what modern tech can do.

 

[bbeagle]

What can realistically be done by the manufacturers?

Make phones into watches!

It's harder to steal something attached to your wrist than just being held by you.

 

[Newton70]

They should instead have a summit to discuss ways of making silly politicians and their stupid idea inoperable.

 

[foodog]

Why would a kill switch stop thieves that are just going to reprogram the phones anyway. I mean it doesn't blow up the phone or anything.

Maybe it kills the thief.... that would work for me, having been a recent phone theft victim.

 

[lostngone]

Real kill switch!

20 or 30 fused links soldered to the main broad that can be burned out in case of theft or jail-breaking attempt of the device. Needs to be made difficult enough so it makes the cost of repair prohibitive.

 

[katewes]

The iPhone is so attractive to thieves because it can be easily wiped, and re-sold on the market. Apple, as the designer and manufacturer, could devise a system to make it more difficult for a thief to just wipe the data, or at least prevent it from being re-used without the authorisation of the owner.

Since that's not my area of tech, I can't think of solutions, but there must be.

Then again, it's not in Apple's best interest to solve this problem, since each iPhone stolen means another sale from the owner who has to buy another phone.

Apple do think in terms of -- is this going to make us money. If not profitable, the Apple representative will smile at the meeting in New York, but inside Apple is saying, stuff you.

If it won't bring in money, Apple is not interested.

For example, Apple would rather insert liquid-detectors in its iPhone so that it does not have to honor its warranty if you wet your phone, rather than designing a waterproof phone like SONY's Xperia Z. Why should Apple make waterproof phones, when each water-damaged phone is an extra sale for Apple? I know this because my phone got wet.

 

[sw1tcher]

What Schneiderman should be asking is what are device owners doing to prevent theft?

People need to stop leaving their devices out and unattended where they can easily be stolen. You wouldn't leave your wallet or a wad of money out and unattended, would you? Treat the device like a wad of hundred dollar bills.

.... blaming the device makers and expecting them to try to prevent theft when it should be the owners.

 

[sbailey4]

i hate how the tone of this suggests that it's apple's, google's and other phone manufacturer's responsibility to deal with theft. you can build safeguards in, but to pass the blame or even suggest that they're at fault is ludicrous

I don't think anyone is blaming them for thieves actions. Just asking about a deterrent. If thieves know there was a means to disable, kill, or otherwise make the device such that it cannot be activated if reported stolen that would deter the theft in the first place. That is the objective.

Also back in the day you could report a phone stolen and the carrier would flag it so it could not be activated again (on their network at least). Wonder if that is still the case?

 

[lostngone]

What Schneiderman should be asking is what are device owners doing to prevent theft?

HEY! It isn't my fault I am stupid!!!!

No??!?! Wait! That didn't come out right.

 

[bbeagle]

Why would a kill switch stop thieves that are just going to reprogram the phones anyway. I mean it doesn't blow up the phone or anything.

The quickest way to stop a thief who is trying to steal your phone, if you can, is to slam your phone against the concrete. A thief doesn't have much use for your broken phone, and you'll still have a phone with all your data you can get fixed with AppleCare.

Beats not having a phone at all.

 

[840quadra]

It could

It could have a method that if triggered it would blow so much of the internal electrics as to make repair impossible or non cost effective.

The triggering, in my opinion, should only be possible by the customer.

That is true,

However that would also be a huge target for those wanting to make malware, or virus programs for such devices.

The quickest way to stop a thief who is trying to steal your phone, if you can, is to slam your phone against the concrete. A thief doesn't have much use for your broken phone, and you'll still have a phone with all your data you can get fixed with AppleCare.

Beats not having a phone at all.

Interesting idea, however phones are quite often quickly swiped from people's hands, or pockets without time to react.

 

[gnasher729]

Why would a kill switch stop thieves that are just going to reprogram the phones anyway. I mean it doesn't blow up the phone or anything.

Macs have a kill switch (firmware password), and even the genius in an Apple store has to call headquarters to recover your Mac from that. Still can be sold for parts, but most thieves would be too stupid to do that.

So it's definitely possible to do something.

 

[sbailey4]

The quickest way to stop a thief who is trying to steal your phone, if you can, is to slam your phone against the concrete. A thief doesn't have much use for your broken phone, and you'll still have a phone with all your data you can get fixed with AppleCare.

Beats not having a phone at all.

LOL good idea. Or un-holster your firearm and shoot it out of the thief's hands. (Perhaps shoot a little low missing the device and hitting the leg )

Then go take it back!

 

[Mousse]

What can realistically be done by the manufacturers?

I believe Microsoft is already has a phone that can't won't be stolen. Steve Balmer channeling Oscar Goldman, "Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first pilfer-proof phone. The Zune phone will be that phone." That's right, make an undesirable phone. That's the only real way to make sure no one steals it.

I remember my first car, an '84 Totoya pickup truck with no power windows, power door lock or power steering. NOBODY wanted to steal that thing. I parked with the doors unlocked and sometimes with the keys in the ignition. Still no takers.

 

[Rocketman]

This is politics. Aimed at raising his name recognition. Nothing else. These are not the droids you are looking for.

Rocketman

 

[iLoveMyApple]

Stuff like this makes me so mad. I work hard for my things and it's ridiculous that these low-lifes will rip off someone's phone without even thinking twice.

 

[dec.]

Apple benefits from device theft, majority of people will buy a new device

If you follow that logic you'll realize that the stolen devices also are being used which means no sales more or less for Apple, assuming - like you did - that the majority of thieves or stolen-iphone-buyers would just buy an iPhone otherwise.

 

[Crzyrio]

All these manufactures have the ability, what is stopping them?

The outrage by government and the people the moment they find out that manufactures can track, listen, see everything we do and where we go

 

[forthelove]

So, if you make it so that the phone becomes COMPLETELY inoperable. What happens when someone gets a hold of your account information and does that to your phone? (if it's something the user does themselves). Then you're up a creek.

I dont think this guy has really thought this through.

Prime hacker incentive too,

Hey Apple, I hacked the self destruct database and will destroy 30 million phones if you don't send 1 meeeliion dollars to my swiss bank account.

 

[Tiger8]

If you follow that logic you'll realize that the stolen devices also are being used which means no sales more or less for Apple, assuming - like you did - that the majority of thieves or stolen-iphone-buyers would just buy an iPhone otherwise.

Yes, but remember the stolen device typically goes to secondary market and goes to someone who wouldn't get an iPhone otherwise, but Mr or Mrs fan will buy another device to replace their older one..

 

[sputnikv]

I don't think anyone is blaming them for thieves actions. Just asking about a deterrent. If thieves know there was a means to disable, kill, or otherwise make the device such that it cannot be activated if reported stolen that would deter the theft in the first place. That is the objective.

Also back in the day you could report a phone stolen and the carrier would flag it so it could not be activated again (on their network at least). Wonder if that is still the case?

people who steal cell phones which also function as gps' are stupid. they're basically stealing expensive tracking devices

 

[maxosx]

What a joke.

Just what we need, more laws that will fail to be enforced, and totally ineffective anyway.

The thieves will be completely unaware, since they're too busy doing what they do best, and profiting from it.

 

[69650]

The iPhone is so attractive to thieves because it can be easily wiped, and re-sold on the market. Apple, as the designer and manufacturer, could devise a system to make it more difficult for a thief to just wipe the data, or at least prevent it from being re-used without the authorisation of the owner.

Since that's not my area of tech, I can't think of solutions, but there must be.

Then again, it's not in Apple's best interest to solve this problem, since each iPhone stolen means another sale from the owner who has to buy another phone.

Apple do think in terms of -- is this going to make us money. If not profitable, the Apple representative will smile at the meeting in New York, but inside Apple is saying, stuff you.

If it won't bring in money, Apple is not interested.

For example, Apple would rather insert liquid-detectors in its iPhone so that it does not have to honor its warranty if you wet your phone, rather than designing a waterproof phone like SONY's Xperia Z. Why should Apple make waterproof phones, when each water-damaged phone is an extra sale for Apple? I know this because my phone got wet.

Agreed. There must be a way that either Apple or the cell phone companies can disable the phone remotely and wipe the user data so it can't be re-programed and re-sold. Then send the owner a secret pin code so that if they do get it back through the police they enter the code and it works again. How hard can it be.

If Apple advertised this as a feature of the iPhone then eventually thieves would stop targeting them and Apple would probably sell more iPhones because of this feature. It's a win win situation.

 

[tbrinkma]

LOL good idea. Or un-holster your firearm and shoot it out of the thief's hands. (Perhaps shoot a little low missing the device and hitting the leg )

Then go take it back!

First, it's a bad idea to aim for an arm or leg, because they're comparably small, and fast moving. Instead, aim for center of mass.

Second, there are *very* few states (only 2, IIRC) where it is legal to use deadly/lethal force to protect *property*. You won't get to keep your phone when you're in jail for assault with a deadly weapon, or murder.

 

[toaster64]

What can realistically be done by the manufacturers?

Easy. Each phone has a unique serial number.