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Discussion in 'MacBook' started by RUGGLES99, May 1, 2016.
Price of 2015 base rmb.
Just picked up a gold one for wife. Been waiting for a sale to come back on the 2015's.
$400 discount is worth more than the 10% cpu boost and 1 extra hour of battery life. Great deal
Awesome - I'll price match on BB and use the .edu discount for an extra $50 off. Thanks!
Edit: Maybe this is impossible because it's from a 3rd party - does anyone know? Also, that third party seller ("Mobile Advance") has some pretty sketchy reviews.
Not sure why you'd think an Apple education discount would be honored by a third party vendor. They might have their own discounts, or they might match, but Apple's own discount isn't going to fly.
Apple beats both of them with their own refurbs at $929 for the base model. http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook
Incorrect; the Best Buy .edu discount ($50 off any Mac) is not the same as Education pricing. Again, it may not stack because this is from a 3rd party (though fulfilled my Newegg.
All that said, the Newegg price is the cheapest (at least in my state) because there's no tax; Apple Refurb and Best Buy both ring up over $969 with tax!
How is my "They might have their own discounts" statement incorrect? You even cited an example of one.
Apple is close enough to a wash here using Discover's 5% off at Apple.com and a 6% sales tax. I forget sometimes how high those taxes can be in other places.
Best Buy does not match 3rd party/marketplace listings. Has to be sold and shipped by the retailer. I ran into this issue with a Bluray.
Yeh, but the machine from Newegg is brand new.
Not really; any 2015 model sold today is a leftover produced at some point prior to the production lines switching over to the new model.
Apart from the box, Apple refurbs are indistinguishable from brand new systems. At this point I suspect the majority of refurbs available are actually just leftover stock of brand new systems, no evidence other than there was certainly some amount of existing stock that Apple wasn't going to toss in the dumpster upon announcing the 2016 model.
I get that some people have a hangup over whether someone else has touched the item since it left the factory. If they prefer to spend more for no functional difference that's their option.
This. You may have some good luck since it is newegg and not as easy to spot as amazon. Since they price match amazon so much they know where to look.
I get your opinion, but the fact is you're comparing a brand-new machine to a refurbished. Refurb = not new = used. A brand new sealed 2015 model is still new condition. It may be a model year old, but it is not used like a refurb is. I would pay $40 more for brand new. (Actually it would come out to around the same price after sales tax from Apple.)
Yep, and in terms of the computer's ability to meet one's needs there is zero discernible difference. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Nil.
After you've opened the white box instead of the box with a picture on it, the "experience" of Apple refurbished vs new is identical. You still get to unwrap the plastic from the computer and accessories, as well as that first boot up to the configuration stuff.
I get that some assign a value to the ephemeral quality of an item being "new"; that's an emotional thing that discussion is unlikely to change in your mind. I guess I'm just more focus on results than feeling; I see no value to that fleeting moment of the computer ceasing to be new the moment you open the box. Go with whatever works for you.
(If I didn't have mine already, I'd still likely go Apple refurb as I'd opt for the 512GB SSD model; $1189 Apple Refurb vs $1279 third party vendor via Newegg. $56 cheaper at Apple after 6% tax and 5% Discover cashback vs. Newegg and 2% cash back. The 1.1/256 model spread is only about $14 all said and done, though I'd personally still probably go with Apple in that instance)
The issue with a refurb is that it is used, plain and simple. It can be dressed up again and reconditioned to "new condition," but it remains a used machine. You do not know the history of the used machine.
It could have been opened and then boxed up again without it ever having been turned on. Or it could have been opened, used for half a year, been sneezed on, had someone take a crap on the keyboard, thrown around, and then sent back to Apple where it was cleaned up so you don't see it anymore or had its parts put into other refurbs which you would be purchasing. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen and is not used. The issue is you do not know the history of the machine, so it could very well be either of these scenarios.
That's the guarantee you're paying extra money for with new. If there is a $14 price difference from a brand new machine vs a used and you still prefer the used, then I do not know what to say. You also have to keep into account not everyone has X cashback card. Without any of those, the Apple refurb actually costs more after 6% tax.
Absolutely none of which impacts the computer's ability to do the job you bought it to do.
Wow, you're seriously trying to debate that one? LOL. I gave one example and said what I would do. I don't spend my time imagining someone dragging their junk across a computer before they return it. (*) It's up to the individual to figure out what works for them. Do what you want, I really don't care.
Personally I'll take a refurb from Apple with Apple's return policy rather than a third party Newegg vendor with a mottled review history and a 15% restocking fee selling leftovers old enough to still have Yosemite preloaded. There are enough examples on the web of used/returned stuff sold as new by even big names like BestBuy that I wouldn't be making much assumption of history of that particular leftover stock / vendor.
Again, go with what floats your boat. If you can't stand the thought of used vs new, buy new every time.
(*) Next time you're out with your friends, try not to think too much about that pint glass you're putting your lips on and drinking out of...
I never said anywhere a refurb works better or worse than a new one. You're wrongly making that assumption.
That was never the point of this conversation to begin with. The point was that you're comparing the price of a new machine vs a used machine and treating it as a fair comparison, which I pointed out. Not only is it a terrible comparison to begin with, but it's worse when there's almost no price difference between the two and you're still suggesting it's a better bet to go with the used.
This is assuming you know what you want. If we have to factor in the return policy, then you do not know what you want. Don't be so sore you had to settle for a refurb at that price when you could have gotten a brand new one via this promo. It's no one's fault that this promo happened after your return period with Apple had passed. If you have to convince yourself otherwise to make yourself feel better about it, then by all means, but the facts are laid out.
Just be satisfied your machine is not giving you any issues. I will be satisfied I got a brand new machine at the price of a refurb.
You've clearly stated you believe leftover/new is better than refurb for ephemeral reasons unrelated to the functioning of the system. I affirmed that differentiation, reiterating that the two will for all intents and purposes be equivalent.
I consider new and refurb as effectively the same from a funcational characteristics standpoint, as do many other people, with the possible exception of battery cycles and age. (*) "Used" is a different category, and your persistant usage of the term clouds the matter.
Clearly your value the non-functional ephemeral qualities that differentiate new from refurb. That's fine, go with what works for you. In contrast lots of people simply don't care about those ephemeral qualities.
Actually I was thinking in terms of someone getting a very old unit (would you be fine with a nine month old battery?) or finding they couldn't adapt to the rMB keyboard.
LOL. Don't start your post chastising me for making assumptions then close with cheap shots founded on a grossly incorrect assumption of your own. That eliminates your credibility.
The fact is I bought a BestBuy openbox 1.2/512 in mid-March for substantially less than either the current refurb prices or this leftovers deal. I'm not sore at all, actually I'm quite relaxed from using my savings to take my wife away for a nice romantic weekend.
(*) Typically Apple seems to replace batteries in the refurb process if they have any age (based on experience and reports), and if for some reason one receives a refurb that's unsatisfactory it's simple to return.
Good, then you now know how it is on the other end of the stick when people make assumptions based on your opinion.
I never differentiated them between a functional perspective-- only you did. I never said they were functionally different or that you were incorrect. I am saying that's a moot point based on the original reason for this exchange (price of new machine vs price of old machine). Functionality between the two never had anything to do with that. You keep bringing that up as if it has any weight to the core debate at hand.
I'm saying based on the potential history of any refurb machine (known or unknown), at the same price point, it is unequivocally better to go with a new machine. Not sure what you are missing there.
--- Post Merged, May 3, 2016 ---
By the way, your repeatedly categorizing my reasons as "ephemeral" does not stand up to inspection either. If you define ephemeral as in "not concrete" or "things which one cannot see," your argument is still weak. Just because you cannot see issues or flaws now because they have been repaired or reconditioned does not make them "ephemeral." They could have taken place. Just because you are ignorant to them does not make them any less of an issue. You are still buying a used machine.
I never said that a new machine is better because of the open-the-wrapper-smell-the-brand-new-metal-and-plastic experience. I am saying it is better because it lacks the potential bad history that a used machine has.
--- Post Merged, May 3, 2016 ---
I'd suggest you go back and read my posts. You've clearly misunderstood what I've written.
The only thing missing is you accepting that not everyone thinks the computer's history prior to Apple's refurbishment process has any bearing on its suitability and reliability for the new owner.
There's nothing wrong with you thinking that. It's just that not everyone agrees with you. How is that in any way unclear?
I wasn't, so not really worth responding the rest of that block. I referenced "the ephemeral quality of an item being ''new''" in the sense of "momentary, lasting for a very short time."
So are you saying the trouble for you is that a component might have been replaced, or are you saying that you feel there's a higher probability of a future problem / shortened usable lifetime? The latter seems contradictory to your earlier comments.
I have not. You are clearly avoiding my overall point, that a brand new machine is better than an old machine at the same price point.
Conversely, not everyone thinks of "new" condition as this weird, philosophical quality you are attributing to taking a product out of its original packaging. That quality is subjective. A machine being brand new out of packaging vs used and refurbished is not.
I never made any assumptions to a refurb's reliability.
Except I never made that distinction-- you did. It was never about that. It's simply about it being new vs used.
How so? It basically comes down to again, it being brand new vs used or a mix of new/reconditioned/used. I never said anything about durability or reliability. A brand new keyboard could last as long as a keyboard that once had someone's human fluids all over it. Think about that every time you type...
By the way, just scored a brand new 2015, same model, for $929 at another promo. It actually comes out to $892 after ebay bucks rewards and cash back. Makes the refurb Apple ones even worse of a deal. Will be refusing shipment of the newegg one for a refund and saving an additional $60 now.
All else equal, of course one would take the new over refurb. That's not the situation with the newegg seller though as previously illustrated. (Probably old stock (Yosemite), possibly dodgy reseller, restocking fee)
Even after all of this you still cannot clearly communicate a meaninful distinction between new and Apple refurbished.
You keep repeating the same thing "but it's used", emphasizing there's no difference in expected reliability/longevity, no difference in functionality, and not related to unwrapping the plastic or a new-computer-smell.
The only things you've really put forth is that some of the parts might be used. Maybe even touched by someone outside the factory. Everything is about its possible history and the possibility that some components have been turned on or used some.
So what? Not everyone cares about that stuff and only care about reliability going forward. You care about that past stuff? Good for you. Nothing wrong with that at all. Do you need others to care about it too as some sort of validation?
Excellent. I hope you enjoy it.
Not sure why you have doubts about buying from a major online retailer. I'm not worried at all I won't get the product I ordered. As a customer, I will get what I ordered or I will get a refund. Consumer laws in the US are on my side.
I've already made the distinction-- you've just been cherry-picking my statements is all. I've already said the difference is the potential bad history with used products and the fact that this is just a huge question mark over the product. You do not know how the previous owner treated the machine. If you are ok with that, all the power to you. No one is saying that you should never buy refurbished or used. There will always be a market for that. At the same price point, it's unwise to buy anything other than new.
Better that Apple refurbished it and not some third party or other company, but it's still a used product with an unknown previous history. Just because it looks new doesn't necessarily mean it is. Otherwise it would be sold as new and not refurbished. They have no reason not to sell it to you at a higher price. Just because Apple's standards are high and they deliver an A+ condition refurb doesn't change the fact that it's still used. You cannot get more specific than that without knowing the exact history breakdown of each individual part in the machine, where it was sourced from, how it was used in a previous machine, how the previous owner(s) used it, etc. Those things are not quantifiable, pragmatically speaking. It is this doubt/unknown that makes used products what they are.
I do not have to think about any of those things with a new product.
Moot as you're refusing delivery, but did you really not notice that those rMBs are from a third party seller and not Newegg themselves? See http://www.newegg.com/Mobile-Advance for the actual seller's reviews and policies.
Bingo. Some people consider that unknown a big deal, others consider it insignificant since the system was bench tested and passed by a technician. (at least in the case of Apple refurbs, particularly in systems such as the rMB where there are relatively few major assemblies that would be replace as a whole).
Ok, so you shouldn't have been calling for this quantifying marker if you already understood the difference between new and used. That was just a waste of time. Unless you didn't see it until now and are just saying so. Either way.
I know who the seller was. I am covered by newegg regardless. And if they cannot, Amex will. The consumer always wins-- we should all be glad about that.
Does not appear to be Newegg selling but a third party vendor.
In terms of choosing leftover stock vs refurbs, I never switched context away from the Mobile Advance third-party vendor through Newegg. I can't fathom why you think I did.
Yes, arguing against a position the other person doesn't hold is a waste of everyone's time.
Usually, though sometimes that win comes only after substantial time and frustration.