Next iPad Air - Pencil Compatible?

[silverblack]

The iPad Pro screen contains an extra layer of sensor just to receive signals from the Pencil. This significantly increases the cost of the screen. For Apple to put such a screen on the iPad Air, it will make the iPad Air to cost significantly more, e.g., $1-200 more?

Before you suggest that the price of the screen digitizer will come down at one point for Apple to just include it for free, think again, on how they still have not included the gps chip to all iPads.

How much more are you willing to pay for a new iPad Air with Pencil compatibility? It won't be the same price as the current iPad Air 2 for sure.

 

[PattyMc]

I agree with this^^^^^^^. I think the increased price to make the screens compatible with the Pencil would have many screaming! Personally I think they will keep the Pencil exclusive to IPP for at least another year and maybe longer than that.

 

[maxsix]

Highly doubtful that the pencil will be supported by anything other than the iPP for the first two years...not going to happen.

I believe you're correct.

Through friends, I'm well connected within the Artists/Animators community of a few major studios within the greater Los Angeles area. The Apple enthusiasts in the group like their iPad Pro's yet would also like to be able to use the pencil with their other iPads. General consensus is it's not likely to become reality anytime soon due to a soft market for all tablets. By retaining the pencil as an exclusive feature of iPad Pro, it helps Apple maximize sales of IPP.

Time will tell.

 

[StoneJack]

The iPad Pro screen contains an extra layer of sensor just to receive signals from the Pencil. This significantly increases the cost of the screen. For Apple to put such a screen on the iPad Air, it will make the iPad Air to cost significantly more, e.g., $1-200 more?

Before you suggest that the price of the screen digitizer will come down at one point for Apple to just include it for free, think again, on how they still have not included the gps chip to all iPads.

How much more are you willing to pay for a new iPad Air with Pencil compatibility? It won't be the same price as the current iPad Air 2 for sure.

There are economies of scale. more iPads with Pencil sensors - lower cost.
Secondly, they can release two iPad Airs, with and without Pencil support theoretically.

 

[bufffilm]

There are economies of scale. more iPads with Pencil sensors - lower cost.
Secondly, they can release two iPad Airs, with and without Pencil support theoretically.

So how much more are you willing to spend to get an Air with pencil support?

 

[FallenLegend]

Reliable Source for this claims? I wouldn't mind paying $100 extra anyway. $200 seems silly given it would basically cost as a pro.

The iPad Pro screen contains an extra layer of sensor just to receive signals from the Pencil. This significantly increases the cost of the screen. For Apple to put such a screen on the iPad Air, it will make the iPad Air to cost significantly more, e.g., $1-200 more?

Before you suggest that the price of the screen digitizer will come down at one point for Apple to just include it for free, think again, on how they still have not included the gps chip to all iPads.

How much more are you willing to pay for a new iPad Air with Pencil compatibility? It won't be the same price as the current iPad Air 2 for sure.

 

[Mac 128]

I agree with this^^^^^^^. I think the increased price to make the screens compatible with the Pencil would have many screaming! Personally I think they will keep the Pencil exclusive to IPP for at least another year and maybe longer than that.

Since when does Apple care if customers scream?

They will do what they always do, the iPad Air 2 will be cheaper, whether they drop it down $100 or keep it the same price and bump the processor specs as they did with the iPad 4. If the latter, they can then introduce a new iPad Air that costs more which will be compatible with the Pencil.

It only makes sense to offer the Pencil with any device that can utilize it, and the iPA certainly can. Much smaller and I think it becomes less practical, and cost prohibitive. The Pro is going to get at least a year of exclusivity, and while its An amazing tablet, it's a bit too big, and expensive, for many who may want to use the pencil. Apple needs to widen the market for the pencil as much as possible to support developers who will design apps to use with it. So the sooner they offer it to a wider audience the faster the developers support it. Right now, mostly pro level developers will benefit as they charge premium prices, and can subsidize the integration with a much larger user base.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I refuse to buy the Pro just because of the Pencil. It's just TOO BIG. They can't force the screen size down my throat in order to make me buy the pencil I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one out here seeing it this way, and apple knows this.
Portability is an important factor for a tablet and it's severely limited with the pro.

So by NOT releasing an Air 3 with Pencil support, they actually loose a customer, not do they win an IPP customer... I think they'll understand that too.

yeah I'd much prefer an air with the pencil capability. I have thought about returning my ipad pro more than once in recent days because it's so hard to handle on the train with the case adding so much weight to it.

 

[StoneJack]

So how much more are you willing to spend to get an Air with pencil support?

Ipad with Pencil support for 99 dollars more - I would agree (600 dollars).
Which makes it iPad Pro mini

 

[silverblack]

Reliable Source for this claims? I wouldn't mind paying $100 extra anyway. $200 seems silly given it would basically cost as a pro.

I was just a guess, based on the price difference between a Samung Note Pro 12.2" and their Tab Pro (US $100). One has a digitizer, and the other didn't. But Apple's digitizer is much more advanced with pressure and tilt sensitivity, and Apple's stuffs are generally more expensive. So a $150 or 200 premium is not impossible.

 

[Krevnik]

I was just a guess, based on the price difference between a Samung Note Pro 12.2" and their Tab Pro (US $100). One has a digitizer, and the other didn't. But Apple's digitizer is much more advanced with pressure and tilt sensitivity, and Apple's stuffs are generally more expensive. So a $150 or 200 premium is not impossible.

The pressure and tilt information is captured by the Pencil itself. Even on the Note Pro this is how the digitizer works (using Wacom tech). So the design is actually more similar than it seems at first blush. The key difference is that Wacom's patents allow them to send power to the pen from the digitizer, which also receives the signal back from the pen. This makes the digitizer a bit more complicated than Apple's since the screen itself is a transmitter/receiver, rather than using Bluetooth for data transmission which is already in the tablet. The main things Apple has to do to support the Pencil is a higher refresh rate (iPad Air 2 is 60Hz, while the Pro's refresh is 120/240Hz), and whatever technique they are using to get better position data from the Pencil. All the other data is coming over bluetooth from the Pencil and processed as needed (force & altitude/azimuth).

Another part of the 100$ premium is the included pen and Wacom's margins for the tech. Apple doesn't include the Pencil, so the added cost for the pieces in the touch layer to support the accuracy and refresh rate is the only additional cost.

I don't think your estimate started in the wrong place, but I'd wager the premium on the display is closer to 50$ impact on retail pricing, if that.

 

[The Game 161]

What is the likelihood that the next iPad Air (whenever it'll be released) will be compatible with the Apple Pencil?
Just curious... I'm due for a new tablet (desperately) and I'm thinking I'd wait because I really enjoy the Apple Pencil on the iPP.

very high given no 3D touch is likely.

 

[FallenLegend]

More advanced=/= more expensive.


$800 iPad ($200 dollar increase) air seems ridiculous as that's basically the pro's price.

I was just a guess, based on the price difference between a Samung Note Pro 12.2" and their Tab Pro (US $100). One has a digitizer, and the other didn't. But Apple's digitizer is much more advanced with pressure and tilt sensitivity, and Apple's stuffs are generally more expensive. So a $150 or 200 premium is not impossible.

 

[Loismustdie1]

There are economies of scale. more iPads with Pencil sensors - lower cost.
Secondly, they can release two iPad Airs, with and without Pencil support theoretically.

I absolutely do NOT see Apple releasing two variations of iPad Air. It would make the product line way more complex than it already is. Apple is not marketing its pencil for the every day consumer who wants to use a stylus with their tablet (there is already a strong healthy 3rd party selection for this). They are marketing the pencil to the graphic designers to which screen real estate is paramount or the businessmen and women who constantly take notes and portability and functionality is a must. It's a similar story with the MacBook Pro 13 vs 15 and the graphics card differentiation.

 

[Mac 128]

I absolutely do NOT see Apple releasing two variations of iPad Air. It would make the product line way more complex than it already is. Apple is not marketing its pencil for the every day consumer who wants to use a stylus with their tablet (there is already a strong healthy 3rd party selection for this). They are marketing the pencil to the graphic designers to which screen real estate is paramount or the businessmen and women who constantly take notes and portability and functionality is a must. It's a similar story with the MacBook Pro 13 vs 15 and the graphics card differentiation.

Apple is marketing the Pencil to artists. They will absolutely offer the Pencil on the smallest format that makes sense. I see artists drawing on napkins at Starbucks. The iPad Pro is really too big for those people to carry around, or afford in some cases, especially with the price of an additional $100 Pencil.

They will continue to offer the iPad Air 2 with a speed bump similar to the iPad 4 for the same price it's currently selling, and bump the price to cover the added cost of the iPad Air 3 for use with the Pencil. They might even continue to sell the iPad Air 2 at a discount, just like they did with the iPad 2, and iPad 4, after they introduced the iPad Air, as well as the iPad mini, and mini 2 when they introduced the 3. There's significant precedent for this.

 

[darkgremio]

From a marketing perspective Apple will probably keep it exclusive to the iPad Pro line. Apple likes to add exclusive incentives to certain products. I think also creating a universal Pencil would create the idea of a stylus, I think they want to keep it exclusively as a writing/drawing utensil and not converge into stylus. Steve Jobs was relatively against the whole stylus thing and I would assume that Jony Ives would feel the sameway, due to his fascination with the experience and the touching experience..(no pun intended)

 

[Mac 128]

From a marketing perspective Apple will probably keep it exclusive to the iPad Pro line. Apple likes to add exclusive incentives to certain products. I think also creating a universal Pencil would create the idea of a stylus, I think they want to keep it exclusively as a writing/drawing utensil and not converge into stylus. Steve Jobs was relatively against the whole stylus thing and I would assume that Jony Ives would feel the sameway, due to his fascination with the experience and the touching experience..(no pun intended)

What current product exclusives are you thinking of exactly?

Also, I'm not sure the Pencil can be used as a "stylus" ... I could be wrong but I ought I read it can't be used to navigate the iPad, only within apps that are designed to take advantage of it, being that the tip is not capacitive.

 

[StoneJack]

There are no much exclusives expect OIS on iPhone 6(S) Plus.
I might agree that Pro will need something to differentiate from Air line, so this is possible for some time.
However, incoming Air might include some kind of support as Pro, maybe up to limited sensitivity level, like 1024 levels, rather than 2048 of Pro.

I am saying that because the margins on Pencil are probably high enough to justify sales of the device to large group of users, rather keeping it to much smaller Pro user base.

 

[Krevnik]

From a marketing perspective Apple will probably keep it exclusive to the iPad Pro line. Apple likes to add exclusive incentives to certain products. I think also creating a universal Pencil would create the idea of a stylus, I think they want to keep it exclusively as a writing/drawing utensil and not converge into stylus. Steve Jobs was relatively against the whole stylus thing and I would assume that Jony Ives would feel the sameway, due to his fascination with the experience and the touching experience..(no pun intended)

Jony said something fairly different in an interview: http://www.wallpaper.com/design/apple-reinvents-the-pencil-in-conversation-with-sir-jony-ive

What we found is that there’s clearly a group of people that would value an instrument that would enable then[sic] to paint or draw in ways that you just can’t with your finger. And I suspect that this isn’t a small group of people. I don’t think it’s confined to those of us who went to art school.

That suggests Ive looks at the Pencil as a complimentary thing. And it suggests they haven't been ignorant of the market for a stylus on the old iPad models. But the thing is, just because it is an accessory, doesn't make it a "stylus" any more than it already is. Those that want it on the other iPads want it for writing, sketching, diagramming, etc. they aren't saying "give me a stylus so I can navigate the OS like my old Palm". Apple has embraced third party keyboards in iOS by adding OS support features and even developer facing features for years. I don't think they ar entirely married to the idea that everyone keeps attributing to Jobs that styluses are terrible. Even Jobs went back on these sort of statements constantly when he was shown to be wrong. Does nobody remember "Nobody wants to watch video on that tiny screen"?

Also, I'm not sure the Pencil can be used as a "stylus" ... I could be wrong but I ought I read it can't be used to navigate the iPad, only within apps that are designed to take advantage of it, being that the tip is not capacitive.

The OS reports the pencil as a touch to all apps, like a finger, but with extra data. What it can't do is trigger gestures that require swiping from the edge (split view, notification center, control center).

 

[nalbagli]

Although I woul find amazing that the pencil would be compatible with the iPad Air, I don think they will do it too soon because of the fact that I think if that is the case the iPad Pro would lose most of it's added value. I bought the iPad Pro but if the Pencil would've been compatible with the Air, I think I wouldn't have bought the Pro.

An Air with pencil compatibilty would be great for me, I use it as a media consumption device but I am also a student who takes notes and highlights pdfs so that would actually be the perfect device for me.

 

[OTACORB]

I just don't see them bringing the pencil to the Air 3. Then again, crazier things have happened. One thing for sure is I have zero interest in the pencil, so I don't care one way or the other. I would like to see them improve the speakers and put them on both sides. I had a Note 3 and 4 and I can count on one hands the number of times I use the pen. I hope they do add the ability for those that want it as long as I don't have to pay more for an Air 3.

 

[lchlch]

That suggests Ive looks at the Pencil as a complimentary thing. And it suggests they haven't been ignorant of the market for a stylus on the old iPad models. But the thing is, just because it is an accessory, doesn't make it a "stylus" any more than it already is. Those that want it on the other iPads want it for writing, sketching, diagramming, etc. they aren't saying "give me a stylus so I can navigate the OS like my old Palm". Apple has embraced third party keyboards in iOS by adding OS support features and even developer facing features for years. I don't think they ar entirely married to the idea that everyone keeps attributing to Jobs that styluses are terrible. Even Jobs went back on these sort of statements constantly when he was shown to be wrong. Does nobody remember "Nobody wants to watch video on that tiny screen"?

I don't think tilt, pressure sensitivity and low latency is that much of a concern when diagramming, writing and simple sketches.

There are many styluses that would fit that role. It doesn't have to be the apple pencil.

 

[Krevnik]

I don't think tilt, pressure sensitivity and low latency is that much of a concern when diagramming, writing and simple sketches.

There are many styluses that would fit that role. It doesn't have to be the apple pencil.

Actually, the latency is very useful when handwriting. As is accuracy. The lack of it will make your handwriting hard to read, requiring zoom features in the app to make up for it, and in general still be pretty sloppy. Plus, if you look at the existing "precision" styluses for the iPad, they don't actually work that well on the Air 2 because of the changes to the touch layer. And they are getting close to the Pencil in price anyhow once you start getting Bluetooth involved. I'd rather pay for something that actually works and supported by the OEM when we get into this category. And maybe my stylus graveyard can stop growing from tying to find one of those "many styluses that would fit" this role, and failing miserably to actually fit the role every single time.

But really, the tilt/pressure features for me are already valuable from my time sketching with one. Shading correctly without one is a PiTA.