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Next iPhone in fall: will that hurt Apple?

Kyotoma said:
I have several questions/comments for this:

With this "latest rumor": Has it really hurt their sales so far? If not, then why would it hurt them in the future? If so, I'd love to read up on it, as I apparently am uneducated in the matter, despite attempting to remain in the loop about all things Apple.

In regards to your comments about the SGSII: I'm quite positive that Apple is not worried about a phone that in my experience does not last even half as long as the iPhone 4S.

In regards to your saying "Apple needs to step it up": Look at the previous generations of the iPhone. Have they not all been greatly improved in some way or another?
-The iPhone 3G brought greater network performance and a new form factor and a bigger battery.
-The iPhone 3GS brought a massive upgrade in hardware speed, even better network performance, and a digital compass.
-The iPhone 4 brought a new design, DOUBLE the screen resolution, an even faster processor, and again even better network performance. Then they brought that same great iPhone 4 to some CDMA carriers.
-Now with the iPhone 4S, they brought a dual core processor, a better camera, and yet again greater network performance for GSM, which caters to a much greater market than just CDMA. They also completely streamlined their production process, now only having to make six versions of the iPhone 4S via the Qualcomm unified CDMA/GSM chip, versus the eight versions of the iPhone 4 that they had to make(GSM/CDMA, White/Black, 16GB/32GB).



Source?
Click to expand...

Well, my main point in starting this thread is that I feel that Apple is way behind in the fact that the current iPhone 4s only supports 3G speeds. The fact that it will be Oct. 2012 when they even add 4G/LTE support to the phone is crazy considering that Androids have had it for well over a year now. The data experience is what makes the smartphone and I feel that the iPhone is severely lacking here with their current offering of 3G speeds. Video streaming is big right now and 3G can barely keep up with live video streams. That, and a plethora of other features and customization on the Androids really does trump or at least equal what the iPhone currently has to offer. What does the iPhone currently offer in features that the Androids don't?

The iPhone has been doing well in brand recognization for going on 5 years now, but will the party continue when there are so many better options out there? How are people justifying spending $200 and locking into 2 year contracts right now when they can pay the exact same and get a much better Android?

My wife's sister is getting her first smartphone and asked me what phone to choose. I had to tell her with the current features and lack of 4G capability, I would not go iPhone (killed me to say it). That's just the reality of the situation.
 
gtgrad95 said:
Well, my main point in starting this thread is that I feel that Apple is way behind in the fact that the current iPhone 4s only supports 3G speeds. The fact that it will be Oct. 2012 when they even add 4G/LTE support to the phone is crazy considering that Androids have had it for well over a year now. The data experience is what makes the smartphone and I feel that the iPhone is severely lacking here with their current offering of 3G speeds. Video streaming is big right now and 3G can barely keep up with live video streams. That, and a plethora of other features and customization on the Androids really does trump or at least equal what the iPhone currently has to offer. What does the iPhone currently offer in features that the Androids don't?

The iPhone has been doing well in brand recognization for going on 5 years now, but will the party continue when there are so many better options out there? How are people justifying spending $200 and locking into 2 year contracts right now when they can pay the exact same and get a much better Android?

My wife's sister is getting her first smartphone and asked me what phone to choose. I had to tell her with the current features and lack of 4G capability, I would not go iPhone (killed me to say it). That's just the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...

Sad that you turned someone away from a perfectly usable phone. 3G, while it has its limitations in terms of speed, is still perfectly able to use for video streaming.

I get that you "feel" that the iPhone is so lacking in so many ways, but what you "feel" is definitely not a reality. The average consumer base disproves that.

If you recall 2007, Apple did the same thing with 3G technology. In fact, they had even less of a reason to hold off on that technology than they do now. LTE is still in its infancy and HSPA technologies have really only hit their stride in the last two years. Besides, have you actually used an LTE device? RAZR MAXX included, LTE is still a battery-hogging technology that is in need of some serious revision. I believe that Apple sees this and is willing to wait for hardware technology to come to par with what they want.

When it comes to brand recognition, not recognization(note: not a word), there is little to argue here. Apple is Apple. They get attention because of their name. I will also say however that they do make premium hardware and pair it with premium software that is all made in-house, so the experience is purely by their design and no one else's.

And when it comes to customization and "plethoras of other features" that you conveniently did not mention, if you don't like it, you as the empowered consumer have plenty of options: go pick up your obviously-favored Android device, Jailbreak your hated iPhone, or opt for some other piece of hardware like the new Nokia Lumia 900 for AT&T.
 
To me it makes more sense to have new iPads come out in the fall and iPhones in the spring. How many people buy an iPhone for someone for a Christmas gift? Probably small compared to how many would buy an iPad as a gift.
 
Kyotoma said:
Sad that you turned someone away from a perfectly usable phone. 3G, while it has its limitations in terms of speed, is still perfectly able to use for video streaming.

I get that you "feel" that the iPhone is so lacking in so many ways, but what you "feel" is definitely not a reality. The average consumer base disproves that.

If you recall 2007, Apple did the same thing with 3G technology. In fact, they had even less of a reason to hold off on that technology than they do now. LTE is still in its infancy and HSPA technologies have really only hit their stride in the last two years. Besides, have you actually used an LTE device? RAZR MAXX included, LTE is still a battery-hogging technology that is in need of some serious revision. I believe that Apple sees this and is willing to wait for hardware technology to come to par with what they want.

When it comes to brand recognition, not recognization(note: not a word), there is little to argue here. Apple is Apple. They get attention because of their name. I will also say however that they do make premium hardware and pair it with premium software that is all made in-house, so the experience is purely by their design and no one else's.

And when it comes to customization and "plethoras of other features" that you conveniently did not mention, if you don't like it, you as the empowered consumer have plenty of options: go pick up your obviously-favored Android device, Jailbreak your hated iPhone, or opt for some other piece of hardware like the new Nokia Lumia 900 for AT&T.
Click to expand...

I'm a big grammar geek, so I'm surprised that slipped by me. Thanks for correcting.

Now, I still don't think you grasp what I'm saying. I love my iPhone. Heck, I even use it on T-Mobile with Edge (because I refuse to go to AT&T and their lousy business practices, but that's another point). I just think that the other phones are passing it by in many areas, with the main one being data speed. I just don't see how they can justify waiting another 8 months to release something (4G) that's already been in the marketplace for a while now and is present on most other smartphones. It just doesn't seem to make sense for a forward thinking company like Apple.

I've had a chance to play with the HTC Inspire through work and I have to say it really does make me ask myself twice, is the iPhone really better than this?
 
I am now eligible to upgrade my phone finally, the change happened over the weekend. I was thinking about getting the 4s, but I had been reading that the next gen would be out in summer, not fall. Now that it is Fall, I'm going to be thinking about getting the 4s. I have enough patience to wait until summer, not fall.
 
gtgrad95 said:
I just don't see how they can justify waiting another 8 months to release something (4G) that's already been in the marketplace for a while now and is present on most other smartphones.
Click to expand...
37 million iPhones sold in the last quarter. Sounds like justification enough.
 
gtgrad95 said:
I'm a big grammar geek, so I'm surprised that slipped by me. Thanks for correcting.

Now, I still don't think you grasp what I'm saying. I love my iPhone. Heck, I even use it on T-Mobile with Edge (because I refuse to go to AT&T and their lousy business practices, but that's another point). I just think that the other phones are passing it by in many areas, with the main one being data speed. I just don't see how they can justify waiting another 8 months to release something (4G) that's already been in the marketplace for a while now and is present on most other smartphones. It just doesn't seem to make sense for a forward thinking company like Apple.

I've had a chance to play with the HTC Inspire through work and I have to say it really does make me ask myself twice, is the iPhone really better than this?
Click to expand...

I'll agree that AT&T has lousy business practices. My line's been consistently throttled since November and I've been in service with them since 2004(Cingular).

Again, I'll ask: what other features do you see Apple lacking in? You repeatedly say it, so I see that it weighs heavily on your mind, but you always leave it at that. You must have a definite reason to feel this way. Otherwise you wouldn't repeatedly mention it.

When it comes to speed, I'll add that I don't really see this much of a problem because I'm on AT&T and not Sprint or Verizon. My girlfriend however is on Verizon and she has had no complaints about speed at all. I cannot speak for Sprint users.
 
gtgrad95 said:
Well, my main point in starting this thread is that I feel that Apple is way behind in the fact that the current iPhone 4s only supports 3G speeds. The fact that it will be Oct. 2012 when they even add 4G/LTE support to the phone is crazy considering that Androids have had it for well over a year now. The data experience is what makes the smartphone and I feel that the iPhone is severely lacking here with their current offering of 3G speeds. Video streaming is big right now and 3G can barely keep up with live video streams. That, and a plethora of other features and customization on the Androids really does trump or at least equal what the iPhone currently has to offer. What does the iPhone currently offer in features that the Androids don't?

The iPhone has been doing well in brand recognization for going on 5 years now, but will the party continue when there are so many better options out there? How are people justifying spending $200 and locking into 2 year contracts right now when they can pay the exact same and get a much better Android?

My wife's sister is getting her first smartphone and asked me what phone to choose. I had to tell her with the current features and lack of 4G capability, I would not go iPhone (killed me to say it). That's just the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...

Your argument is stupid...Sorry to say. The fact that your sister-in-law is asking for your advice and you are steering her away from iPhone because of lack of 4G tells me that you shouldn't be giving advice on smart phones. You obviously have no clue.
 
Kyotoma said:
Again, I'll ask: what other features do you see Apple lacking in? You repeatedly say it, so I see that it weighs heavily on your mind, but you always leave it at that. You must have a definite reason to feel this way. Otherwise you wouldn't repeatedly mention it.
Click to expand...

Here is the main areas the iPhone lacks, with 4G obviously being the most significant:

1) 4G
2) Bigger display (Galaxy SII is 4.3 inches - makes a big difference)
3) no micro-usb port for charging (ITU has decreed this as a standard for all smartphones)
4) no HDMI out
5) no user replaceable/removable battery

and to a lesser degree NFC and Flash (both of which the SII have, for example)

Just a few off the top of my head.

----------
sulpfiction said:
Your argument is stupid...Sorry to say. The fact that your sister-in-law is asking for your advice and you are steering her away from iPhone because of lack of 4G tells me that you shouldn't be giving advice on smart phones. You obviously have no clue.
Click to expand...

Why is that? You don't think having 4G and not having it makes a difference?
 
1) Too much of a battery hog and even so, not really that needed because 3G is fast enough.
2)4" is the biggest I would ever want on a phone, but I still think the current form factor and screen size is just fine for my needs. I have my iPad for anything iOS-display intensive.
3)I'm actually curious as to how Apple gets away with not complying to this.
4) Why the hell would you need a HDMI out on a smartphone?? If you have movies you want to play set up an NAS or a Time Capsule and call it a day.
5)Again, why would you need this? is a car charger so inconvenient?

There aren't enough uses for NFC yet and flash is still too much of a battery hog to even be an option. The web in general is moving toward HTML 5 any way.
 
Kyotoma said:
1)
4) Why the hell would you need a HDMI out on a smartphone?? If you have movies you want to play set up an NAS or a Time Capsule and call it a day.
Click to expand...

I didn't buy an HD camcorder and instead use my iPhone to take movies during family vacations. It gets too cumbersome to carry around our SLR camera and 2 lenses and a camcorder too. So it's nice to actually be able to view these movies on a big screen TV very quickly via HDMI without going through the steps of having to connect to a computer, transfer the movies to iTunes, and watch via Airplay.
 
gtgrad95 said:
I didn't buy an HD camcorder and instead use my iPhone to take movies during family vacations. It gets too cumbersome to carry around our SLR camera and 2 lenses and a camcorder too. So it's nice to actually be able to view these movies on a big screen TV very quickly via HDMI without going through the steps of having to connect to a computer, transfer the movies to iTunes, and watch via Airplay.
Click to expand...

AirPlay via Apple TV or the AV adapter completely bypasses the computer method.
 
gtgrad95 said:
With the latest rumor that we may not expect the next iPhone until fall, I am wondering why. I'm surprised that Apple would actually wait till Sept/Oct to release the next version. The current version is only 3G, not even 4G. Android 4G has been out for a while, so Apple is already behind the curve. I also believe some of the Android handsets already support LTE as well. It's amazing that they continue to sell phones at the pace that they are with their technology being 2 years behind.

I'm a huge Apple fan and have owned all the iPhones (currently have a 4), but I played with my buddy's Galaxy SII and I have to admit it is a really nice phone. Apple needs to step it up quickly if they want to continue to stay competetive with the hard charge from Android and Windows. They are running on dialup in a broadband environment. How come people continue to overlook this?
Click to expand...

On AT&T, the 4S is on the newest network (except for the tiny LTE network), so it's not really an issue.

On Verizon, I would say that it is an issue, but the data prove me wrong. Verizon sold twice as many iPhone 4S'es, as they did 4G LTE phones in total. Apparently the average consumer just doesn't care, and Verizon is having a hard time marketing 4G LTE, as most people don't care about speed, and trying to explain the better penetration of 700mhz with MIMO, spectral efficiency, and building on greenfield spectrum would make most average people's heads explode.
 
gtgrad95 said:
Why is that? You don't think having 4G and not having it makes a difference?
Click to expand...

4G obviously makes a difference in speed. But to make the #1 deciding factor when choosing a phone is rediculous. And I know everyones needs are different, but for me 4G is just about LAST on my list. In fact, I don't even want 4G LTE until the battery consumption problems get worked out. A lot of these Android phones with 4G LTE were rushed out just to have something to compete with iPhone. But did you ever try a 4G phone for an extended period of time? You can watch the battery drain right before your eyes. Most people I know turn it off to save battery life. Is it really that good of a trade off? I'll take 3G speeds and have good battery life any day of the week. 3G is fast enough for what I do. Would I like 4G speeds?..Of course... But not until I can run it like I run 3G on my current phone.

Your poor sis-in-law is going to take your advice and get a big screened, 4G Android phone that isn't going to worth a **** in 6 months. Find out what her exact needs are and let her base her decision on that. Not stupid LTE internet speeds. The truth is iPhone 4S is far and away the best phone on the market, bar none. When you break everything down, it's superior to just about anything out there. Android hasn't even perfected a smooth, non-stuttering UI yet.
 
gtgrad95 said:
I just don't see how they can justify waiting another 8 months to release something (4G) that's already been in the marketplace for a while now and is present on most other smartphones. It just doesn't seem to make sense for a forward thinking company like Apple.
Click to expand...
3G smartphones had been on the market since November of 2006 but Apple didn't release a 3G iPhone until June of 2008.

Apple justified waiting 18 months before they felt 3G mature enough for what they wanted to do with it an iPhone.

And you're worried about 8 more months for 4G? :confused:
 
gtgrad95 said:
With the latest rumor that we may not expect the next iPhone until fall, I am wondering why. I'm surprised that Apple would actually wait till Sept/Oct to release the next version. The current version is only 3G, not even 4G. Android 4G has been out for a while, so Apple is already behind the curve. I also believe some of the Android handsets already support LTE as well. It's amazing that they continue to sell phones at the pace that they are with their technology being 2 years behind.
Click to expand...
It's only amazing if you don't learn from history. Go back and look at when the iPhone 3G was released compared to other 3G devices.
 
aristobrat said:
3G smartphones had been on the market since November of 2006 but Apple didn't release a 3G iPhone until June of 2008.

Apple justified waiting 18 months before they felt 3G mature enough for what they wanted to do with it an iPhone.

And you're worried about 8 more months for 4G? :confused:
Click to expand...

Technically that would play right into that cycle that you described, since it's been almost exactly a year since the first LTE phone came to the US(Thunderbolt by HTC for VZW on March 17, 2011)
 
gtgrad95 said:
Here is the main areas the iPhone lacks, with 4G obviously being the most significant:

1) 4G
2) Bigger display (Galaxy SII is 4.3 inches - makes a big difference)
3) no micro-usb port for charging (ITU has decreed this as a standard for all smartphones)
4) no HDMI out
5) no user replaceable/removable battery

and to a lesser degree NFC and Flash (both of which the SII have, for example)

Just a few off the top of my head.
Click to expand...


gtgrad95 said:
With the latest rumor that we may not expect the next iPhone until fall, I am wondering why. I'm surprised that Apple would actually wait till Sept/Oct to release the next version. The current version is only 3G, not even 4G. Android 4G has been out for a while, so Apple is already behind the curve. I also believe some of the Android handsets already support LTE as well. It's amazing that they continue to sell phones at the pace that they are with their technology being 2 years behind.

I'm a huge Apple fan and have owned all the iPhones (currently have a 4), but I played with my buddy's Galaxy SII and I have to admit it is a really nice phone. Apple needs to step it up quickly if they want to continue to stay competetive with the hard charge from Android and Windows. They are running on dialup in a broadband environment. How come people continue to overlook this?
Click to expand...

I hate threads like this that are not based off of any facts whatsoever. So let me break it down for the OP:
1) The 4G network is still minuscule in comparison to the robust 3G on Verizon and especially AT&T. Manufacturers still haven't found a way to balance battery life and data speeds. Ask anyone who uses a LTE phone and most of them, who use their phone pretty consistently on a daily basis, will tell you the battery life is pretty bad. Right now Apple is figuring out a way to get it right the first time instead of having a phone with a bad battery life. I'm assuming they've figured it out seeing as how the iPad 3 is rumored to be LTE.

2) The iPhone is the best selling smartphone in the world and Apple is the leading smartphone manufacturer after only being in the game for 5 years. Their sales pretty much double after each release, regardless of any flaws the iPhone model contains. One thing people on this board don't get is that the iPhone isn't built for us nerds/geeks/fanboys. It's built for the average Joe. The average Joe could give 2 $#!+$ about an HDMI output, 4" screen, removable battery, processor speed, RAM, etc. They want a phone that works and is easy to use. The iPhone fits both of those bills.

3) Apple isn't behind the curve. Apple, now, is the curve. Manufactures have been scrambling since the introduction of the iPhone to figure out a way to beat it. Their solution is to come on forums and blogs like this and figure out what us nerds want and cram it into their next phone, therefore forgetting about the average consumer. They think that since the iPhone doesn't have feature A, they can put out 5 models with feature A and advertise it. And the average Conusmer watches/hears/looks at the advertisements like :confused:.

4) now to address the features you listed above that the iPhone "lacks."

  • A) 4G. See my paragraph above
  • B) Bigger Display - Now ill admit that I'd love to see a 4" iPhone screen. But that's it. Any bigger and it's hard to type with one hand. But it's definitely not a reason to turn someone away from getting the iPhone.
  • C) No micro-USB - Really?! This is a reason not to get an iPhone? That standard is in Europe only for now. Here in the states it's harder to find a micro USB cord vs an Apple cord. I can find an Apple cord in practically every gas station and dollar store so this is not an issue whatsoever.
  • D) No HDMI out - In case you haven't been paying attention to what Apple does, they want to make everything as wireless as possible, hence wifi syncing and AirPlay. Adding and HDMI port increases the price and takes away sales of the AppleTV.
  • E) No removable battery - This just makes me laugh. Why would Apple make a device where you have to somewhat disassemble it just to swap out a battery? Why not just make a battery that lasts all day under pretty heavy usage? But wait, they did! My 4S has been going all day long streaming music, watching podcasts, checking and writing emails/texts and I only down to 28%. So why implement a feature that's clumsy at best and not user friendly?

The iPhone 5 will be a huge success for multiple reasons:
- People who bought the 4 and didn't upgrade to the 4S.
- People who just get every iPhone because of quality loyalty (brand loyalty means the consumer likes what the manufacturer is doing so why change?)
- People with Androids waiting for the 5 with hopefully a bigger screen to move away from Android
- People who have never had an iPhone before.
- People who want things to just work properly with no hesitations or complications. Regardless of the hundreds/thousands of threads on this forum talking about problems with their iPhone, there are millions who have no problems whatsoever and never have.
 
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I don't think the fall release will hurt, or help, more so just makes sense with their release schedule now (actually maybe more of a "help" budge since it gives Apple and other companies that do the same a little buying frenzy for the holiday rush). LTE doesn't mean much too me, I like it, it's fast, but it's still a battery hog... and the Android devices that do well with it on battery now is primarily b/c they have a large capacity battery in which the downside is much longer charge times vs the iPhone or even my i777 GS2. Apple would have to put in a lager capacity battery, but hopefully the new chipsets coming out across all phones this year will be more efficient for LTE. Personally I'm fine with hspa+ right now, I mean it's more then enough for browsing and you get the same battery life as normal 3G use.

Larger screen would be very nice though, my phone has a 4.3" screen and the overall size of the phone is barely larger then our 4/4S. The difference in browsing between the 3.5" and 4.3" screen is night and day, so much easier and better on the 4.3"... anything larger though I don't care for as the 4.5"+ phones feel bulky to me.
 
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