'NHS COVID-19' Contact Tracing App With Exposure Notification API Launches in England and Wales

[johngwheeler]

I won't ever download it. If my gym demands I use it then I'll quit membership. Enforcing that customers use this app in gyms, pubs, shops, etc. is a good way to wreck what's left of the British economy. I doubt that will happen in practise because anyone without a smartphone or anyone with an older smartphone can't download the app so it's of limited use.

Could I ask why? Assuming you carry your phone around with you most of the time, it provides a useful tool for tracing your contacts should you or someone you've been in close contact with become infected. It's non-intrusive, non-centralized (the data remains on your phone until you choose to upload it), and could contribute to reducing the spread of the virus, which could well end up killing a susceptible person. That person might be someone you care about.

The whole point of tools like this is *help* to open up the freedom of movement and keep economic and social activity going, not prevent it.

It doesn't have to have 100% adoption to be effective, so the fact that not everyone has supported smartphones doesn't mean it's useless.

Be socially responsible, and do your bit to help to potentially help others.

 

[manu chao]

The "correct" answer probably lies somewhere in between the two extremes of "do nothing, carry on as normal", and "shut everything down".

We need to adapt to the changed situation by adopting measures that maximize protection whilst minimizing social and economic impact.

This includes taking sensible and achievable precautions to reduce infections, backed by rigorous research and empirical evidence (hygiene, distancing, barriers [yes, masks...shouldn't be political, but sadly are.. ])...

...and logical disease control - testing, isolation and selective quarantine dictated by the measurable metrics.

...and taking a calm, non-hysterical approach to the real threat. It's not Ebola, but it's also not the common cold.

All easier said than done due to human failings. <sigh>

It is also better if you don’t have to ramp up and draw down measures too frequently and too drastically. Essentially finding a steady state that keeps the infection rate at a roughly constant (and preferably rather low) level. What complicates things is that the same set of measures at different infection rate levels can have different results. Moreover, the weather, holidays/vacation, and the motivation of the population also have noticeable effects.

 

[laz232]

Does anyone have links to peer reviewed articles that give estimates of how useful any of these methods are for reducing community spread?

 

[urtules]

I just had a debate with a person who doesn't feel comfortable because this app took their name and a postcode. Can someone please tell me did it asked for your name during setup?

I have installed it and I am going to use it. As far as I remember it didn't asked my name. If you are not comfortable sharing your post code and name, don't do it, exposure notification framework will work without this information.

 

[urtules]

I won't ever download it. If my gym demands I use it then I'll quit membership. Enforcing that customers use this app in gyms, pubs, shops, etc. is a good way to wreck what's left of the British economy. I doubt that will happen in practise because anyone without a smartphone or anyone with an older smartphone can't download the app so it's of limited use.

Personally, I feel more comfortable scanning a QR code, than writing my name and phone on a paper and leave it in a public place.

 

[johngwheeler]

It is also better if you don’t have to ramp up and draw down measures too frequently and too drastically. Essentially finding a steady state that keeps the infection rate at a roughly constant (and preferably rather low) level. What complicates things is that the same set of measures at different infection rate levels can have different results. Moreover, the weather, holidays/vacation, and the motivation of the population also have noticeable effects.

All valid points. There are lots of variables, and it's nearly impossible to determine the effectiveness of any measure unless you can test a large proportion of the population quickly and frequently - something that simply isn't happening in most places.

As you say, we need to find a steady-state that keeps infections under control, whilst agreeing an acceptable level of risk and mortality.

I agree that infection can be quite dangerous, but also accept that we have always lived with a degree of risk and uncertainty. How many deaths would we deem "acceptable"? The same as road traffic accidents? Or influenza? Or smoking-related illnesses? It's an interesting ethical question, and one we probably don't often ask ourselves.

I do think the media tends to focus on partial figures, often without context to these other real risks. If we saw Covid-19 deaths in the context of the overall numbers including heart disease (much of which is preventable), dementia, stroke, accidents etc. we might be a little more sanguine. It's serious, certainly, but we happily ignore more dangerous issues because they are far less immediate and obvious.

 

[adrianlondon]

Appears to be an issue with Availability Alerts not working on 14.2....reckons they arent available due to Location Services being turned off when they are on.

Yep, that's an issue with 14.2 rather than the specific Covid app. Others (i.e. not just the UK one) are also not working. As 14.2 is only on the first beta, it's not a big deal (yet).

 

[jonnyb]

I just had a debate with a person who doesn't feel comfortable because this app took their name and a postcode. Can someone please tell me did it asked for your name during setup?

No, it does not. Just the first part of your postcode.

 

[bandrews]

I won't ever download it. If my gym demands I use it then I'll quit membership. Enforcing that customers use this app in gyms, pubs, shops, etc. is a good way to wreck what's left of the British economy. I doubt that will happen in practise because anyone without a smartphone or anyone with an older smartphone can't download the app so it's of limited use.

Oh get over yourself.

 

[bandrews]

I just had a debate with a person who doesn't feel comfortable because this app took their name and a postcode. Can someone please tell me did it asked for your name during setup?

I have installed it and I am going to use it. As far as I remember it didn't asked my name. If you are not comfortable sharing your post code and name, don't do it, exposure notification framework will work without this information.

Didn't ask for my name, just first half of my postcode.

 

[PhilMacbook]

Personally, I feel more comfortable scanning a QR code, than writing my name and phone on a paper and leave it in a public place.

Me too. I won't be doing that either.

 

[PhilMacbook]

Could I ask why? Assuming you carry your phone around with you most of the time, it provides a useful tool for tracing your contacts should you or someone you've been in close contact with become infected. It's non-intrusive, non-centralized (the data remains on your phone until you choose to upload it), and could contribute to reducing the spread of the virus, which could well end up killing a susceptible person. That person might be someone you care about.

The whole point of tools like this is *help* to open up the freedom of movement and keep economic and social activity going, not prevent it.

It doesn't have to have 100% adoption to be effective, so the fact that not everyone has supported smartphones doesn't mean it's useless.

Be socially responsible, and do your bit to help to potentially help others.

We have different views on what being socially responsible is, that's all. You are free to use the app if you want to and I am free to not use it.

 

[Deliro]

Wait for the watch or phone to detect if you sneeze and put your name on some list.

 

[iGeneo]

It is sad that in this thread I see so many selfish people from the UK. I thought it was just us Americans.

I cannot understand how you would not want to ANONYMOUSLY report yourself positive to someone else or be ANONYMOUSLY notified that you were in contact with someone with CV19.

Consider that you may be visiting a person that is vulnerable, a parent, a grandparent. A friends mum. Anyone! Would you want to be aware and take precautions?

Please tell me why you would do something so damned irresponsible.

Consider the wedding in Maine where 65 people attended and they have now tracked the coronavirus spread to 270 people, eight of which have died. None of the people that died attended the wedding.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

so people not carrying their phone, can't eat out or enter a business ?

Yes you can.
You have to sign into anywhere you go, be that by using an app and doing it digitally, or manually signing in.
It is advised to do it digitally, this way you will be automatically informed if the venue has been exposed when you were there, instead of relying the operators to manually inform everyone individually.

 

[egraphixstudios]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

 

[Kal El]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

And your proof of this is?

 

[Plutonius]

Yes you can.
You have to sign into anywhere you go, be that by using an app and doing it digitally, or manually signing in.
It is advised to do it digitally, this way you will be automatically informed if the venue has been exposed when you were there, instead of relying the operators to manually inform everyone individually.

Thank you.

I didn't think it would be fair requiring everyone to carry a smartphone.

 

[simps100]

Downloaded this last night - when I look in settings > exposure notifications > exposure logging status then exposure checks I see a bunch of checks but only form yesterday when I installed the app so not sure what this means exactly - that I wasn’t near enough anyone today who had the app?

I’d find it surprising as did go to a theme park and then a supermarket but you never know!

 

[johngwheeler]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

You’ll need to provide some evidence of this, and be prepared to get a lot media attention on yourself if you prove it to be true. Could be your big break

 

[bandrews]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

Do you have a reliable source on this? Serco are the contractors doing the manual track and tracing. I wasn’t aware they developed the app.

 

[Cloudane]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

You do realise Apple and Google, who make iPhone and Android smartphones respectively, were involved with PRISM and the whole GCHQ/NSA thing? If you're going to tinfoil hat, it'd be best not to have a smartphone at all.

 

[iGeneo]

You realize that all data flows through the API and it was designed to not pass location or personal info?

 

[johngwheeler]

You do realise Apple and Google, who make iPhone and Android smartphones respectively, were involved with PRISM and the whole GCHQ/NSA thing? If you're going to tinfoil hat, it'd be best not to have a smartphone at all.

Yes, and for good measure, he should pull out the HDD/SSD, CPU and RAM from the computer he uses to post to Macrumors, and toast them in a microwave oven, like "Mr. Robot". You can't be sure who is watching :-(

 

[PhilMacbook]

The NHS Track and Trace app is developed by SERCO. Serco have links to GCHQ (which is turn work with NSA).

Not going on my phone.

Some hackers already found traces of tracking for GCHQ in the app.

Serco are also housing many of the illegal immigrants who are coming across in inflatable boats. They have a £4 billion government contract and are putting the boat people up in 4 star hotels that many of the public, especially in these harsh economic times, can only dream of staying at. Serco seem to have their fingers in many dirty pies.