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'Nightline' Looks at Apple's Woes as Stock Declines 20% from All-Time High
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That's for sure.
'Apple is doomed' is a 70% irony and a 30%... It feels like Tim Cook is messing too much with Apple. Browett's hiring, Forstall's firing, Bob Mansfield's unstable position, doubtful product updates when form takes over function: iPod nano (what is this, a cheap Chinese toy? Just compare it to the brilliant last two generations of nano...), iPod touch loosing ambient light sensor because "it's too thin!", but gaining a 'loop' handle (so not too thin I guess), iMac w/o DVD-rom which is a bit too early, bad choice of Yelp as the only and not useful outside of the US business info provider, doubtful choice of tomtom as the map data provider... Still unfinished Siri unusable to the most of the world but still being stuffed with dubious new features, while being blown out of the water by the new Google app, which even works on the Apple iOS devices where Apple's own Siri doesn't work.
Maybe some of the hardware and software products were in development well before Tim became a CEO, but still... At least all this management issues are his very own responsibility.
Apple is not doomed. It's possible to rethink all this stuff. At this moment it's still possible.
Yeah... the iphone is selling so bad, Foxcomm can't keep up!
Isn't that the issue, though? Apple has many products but most of the profits come from the iPhone. If they can't sell as many as they want to because of supply chain issues, than the stock will suffer. Analysts want a minimum of 50M iPhones in the December quarter. How many customers is Apple losing if they can't ship the iPhone 5 in a reasonable amount of time?
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Or maybe they're just...dumb?
How about stupidity and intellectual dishonesty go hand in hand?
With every new revision Apple is reducing base cost by using cheaper material. Apple doesn't spend much on R&D. Foxconn is producing iPhone 5 like candy (more than 4s) and most likely Apple is paying less per phone to Foxconn. So what economies of scale going forward???
I whole heartedly agree. If the market share of Android was so amazing, the stock prices of Google would at least be on par with Apples.
A) People are getting out of Apple because it's been such a meteoric rise. Apple are at the top, and like all companies that have relatively high-turnover, fashion based goods, they'll fall from that perch one day.
B) Apple haven't actually done anything new in the last couple of years. iPad mini enters a very different market to the ones that iPod, iPhone and iPad entered. iPad mini will partially cannibalize iPad sales, and being relatively late to market means you shouldn't expect market share domination like we've seen before.
C) New, well-built, highly-specced and user friendly Android devices are being marketed in an attempt to grab market share. While I believe 'The ecosystem' to be the second largest tech fallacy (Behind 'The cloud') today, Google will grab share and eat away at a number of revenue streams.
D) Apple show no intent of improving their value proposition. By overtly ignoring the desktop market, providing marginal user value in iOS and OSX updates, and having a rigid pricing structure, Apple continues to rely on keynote product announcements and subsequent releases to drum up sales. There's little in the way of 'business as usual', as there's often little incentive to buy a product that's less than 3 months from probable replacement and obsolescence.
There are things that Apple can do, although recent history shows that they have no inclination to race to the bottom, nor do they often deviate from their product release intervals, however it must be remembered that a rising share price is an indication that people believe that Apple is on the up. From 2012's product releases, can we honestly say that's the case?
The drop in share price is probably in part to people who have no business in dabbling in the stock market expecting super-innovative Apple to come out with a magical device they'd never thought of that would cost $100 to make and that Apple could fleece punters for $600 for, and instead they got a Nexus 7 clone, a broken maps app and some chamfered edges.
The issue isn't so much why Apple's stock has fallen to where it is today, it's why it ever reached the highs it did.
B) Apple haven't actually done anything new in the last couple of years. iPad mini enters a very different market to the ones that iPod, iPhone and iPad entered. iPad mini will partially cannibalize iPad sales, and being relatively late to market means you shouldn't expect market share domination like we've seen before.
C) New, well-built, highly-specced and user friendly Android devices are being marketed in an attempt to grab market share. While I believe 'The ecosystem' to be the second largest tech fallacy (Behind 'The cloud') today, Google will grab share and eat away at a number of revenue streams.
D) Apple show no intent of improving their value proposition. By overtly ignoring the desktop market, providing marginal user value in iOS and OSX updates, and having a rigid pricing structure, Apple continues to rely on keynote product announcements and subsequent releases to drum up sales. There's little in the way of 'business as usual', as there's often little incentive to buy a product that's less than 3 months from probable replacement and obsolescence.
There are things that Apple can do, although recent history shows that they have no inclination to race to the bottom, nor do they often deviate from their product release intervals, however it must be remembered that a rising share price is an indication that people believe that Apple is on the up. From 2012's product releases, can we honestly say that's the case?
The drop in share price is probably in part to people who have no business in dabbling in the stock market expecting super-innovative Apple to come out with a magical device they'd never thought of that would cost $100 to make and that Apple could fleece punters for $600 for, and instead they got a Nexus 7 clone, a broken maps app and some chamfered edges.
The issue isn't so much why Apple's stock has fallen to where it is today, it's why it ever reached the highs it did.
If Apple has billions of dollars....
And is a bunch of "retards"
And you don't have billions of dollars...
Wouldn't that make you dumber than a retard?
Why ? It's good that it goes down.
As I said month's ago... If you scre***w your customers it will ruin your bussiness. And thats whats happening now.
Nothing new... Just the same stuff in new casings.
Dont get me wrong... Used to be a fanboy. Im just not wearing pink glasses. I see they are messing everything up. Every new product since Mountain Lion is a joke and downgrade :-(
And the stoke market and many websites says the same... The pattern is very clear. But I now. Most people on this site see apple as some kind of god. Yea even I used to. But wake up. Now they are just taking your money for new machines that actually are worse than the old ones. New iMac - A joke. New iPad Mini - poor quality. New iPhone 5 - Whats new ??? Ooohhh yea. The apps and OS has become more crappy. Was good in 2007 but now ?
Im pissed ...
I still like my Apple TV eventhough it cant show all videos from youtube because apple has to fight google over patents thats not even theirs...
Without Steve Jobs it seems Apple will go down again...
You are such a fool. Apple is trading below its inherent value. It's P/E ratio is 12 (almost 9 if you remove the cash it has). Companies that are overvalued are tech companies such as Amazon with a P/E ratio of almost 2800. Please understand business fundamentals before you spout off incongruous statements.
I love your comment that states that Apple has not done anything new the last couple of years. It just released the iPad in 2010 which happened to establish a new PRODUCT category. What have the other manufacturers produced? Any innovative product categories?? Three years before that they revolutionized the smart phone industry.
And where exactly is most of the profits in mobile space going ( phones and tablets)? Yup, you guessed it Apple. Who cares about Market Share; it's profit share that matters. After all this is business, right?
Didn't read the whole thread, but had to post my opinion. I bought some Apple stock 12-18 months ago at around $300. This was the first stock I ever bought and I obviously knew nothing about the stock market. I thought stock prices reflected the real value of the company, but it seems like it's based more on the whims of a bunch of ignorant analysts (and/or real manipulation, though by whom and why I'm not sure). Amazon can lose money and the analysts are happy, while Apple can be rolling in the dough but they don't meet some group of idiots' speculation about what they thought they might earn in a quarter, so the stock drops.
Also, why does a company need to sell more of a product than they sold a year ago at the same time? Eventually the market will get a bit more saturated, and they'll sell less of that same product. So you have to take into account how much they're selling of other things. And it may come to pass that their hardware sales will drop further, but their software and media profits will grow quite a bit. So long as they are profitable, and making gobs of money (compared to just about every other company out there) I would think that their stock should continue to do well. But the stock market is crazy, so I guess I can't use that logic.
In any case, I'm depressed that my stock lost quite a bit of value today, but I also look at it as a potential buying opportunity. But I'm hesitant to pull the trigger and buy simply because of what I described above. At this point I still think Apple is a smart business that is going to make gobs of profits and if they sense that they're on the wrong track and need to make some adjustments, they're *WAY FAR* away from that cliff, such that I certainly wouldn't panic yet. Right now, they are *THE BRAND* that everyone else wishes they were. The Apple TV is a low-priced accessory that more and more iPhone owners are getting and that's giving Apple some serious leverage with the content makers that they haven't yet leveraged. And they're selling all of their products with ridiculous profit margins which they can easily adjust lower if they feel like they're not getting the sales numbers that they want, and *STILL* profit on the sale. Compare that to a Google Nexus or Amazon Kindle device that's sold right out of the gate at minimal profit or even at a loss.
Also, why does a company need to sell more of a product than they sold a year ago at the same time? Eventually the market will get a bit more saturated, and they'll sell less of that same product. So you have to take into account how much they're selling of other things. And it may come to pass that their hardware sales will drop further, but their software and media profits will grow quite a bit. So long as they are profitable, and making gobs of money (compared to just about every other company out there) I would think that their stock should continue to do well. But the stock market is crazy, so I guess I can't use that logic.
In any case, I'm depressed that my stock lost quite a bit of value today, but I also look at it as a potential buying opportunity. But I'm hesitant to pull the trigger and buy simply because of what I described above. At this point I still think Apple is a smart business that is going to make gobs of profits and if they sense that they're on the wrong track and need to make some adjustments, they're *WAY FAR* away from that cliff, such that I certainly wouldn't panic yet. Right now, they are *THE BRAND* that everyone else wishes they were. The Apple TV is a low-priced accessory that more and more iPhone owners are getting and that's giving Apple some serious leverage with the content makers that they haven't yet leveraged. And they're selling all of their products with ridiculous profit margins which they can easily adjust lower if they feel like they're not getting the sales numbers that they want, and *STILL* profit on the sale. Compare that to a Google Nexus or Amazon Kindle device that's sold right out of the gate at minimal profit or even at a loss.
Try just Lion (10.7). That was the first real clear point at which Apple's development shift into almost pure consumer single-use development started in earnest. 10.8 was just confirmation of that.
P/E ratio is only useful if earnings continue to be as high. Don't be so naive. Apple wont and cant keep earning like this. Not for 9-12 years. Not in the tech industry. RIM was at $120 a share 4 years ago. Think about it.
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You are naive if you think the whole world is going to have smartphones. Get out of your tech bubble and think for a minute how many people live in 3rd world have dumb phones.
NOK is still #2 in phones produced. I am going long on NOK once it hits a certain price point
smart move. i started to short at 697. if you learned anything from the past, nothing goes up forever especially this fast and the fact that apple has lost its innovation and erosion in their marketshare in phones and tablets. i really hope people can read the writing on the wall. the selloff was obvious.
Have you ever been to china? The vast majority of people cannot afford a iphone. You're seriously disillusioned.
I could not agree more. There are fears that Obama is not willing to avoid the "fiscal cliff" and that has starting to seriously weigh on the ENTIRE economy as a whole. Why do you think Walmart has already said they are starting their Black Friday sales earlier on Thanksgiving this year?
Indeed, don't be surprised if Apple misses its sales targets for the iPhone and iPad because of this economic fear--and that could hammer the stock price of Apple under US$400/share.
Really?
Black Friday along with back to school has been hyped earlier and earlier every year for the last 20 some years
Black Friday along with back to school has been hyped earlier and earlier every year for the last 20 some years
Well, a nearly DOUBLE of the share price since the death of Steve Jobs with ... iPhone 4S? It can't be true. Tech moves so fast that Apple is virtually certain to have a hit with a phone that looks the same (don't mind the internals) for 29 months. Smart people would have sold their stocks and taken home with huge amount of money, like Scott Forstall did.
p.s. I'm sad to say that I am spotting a lot and a lot more of Galaxy S3 since the iPhone 5 launch. People are just....well I don't know what to say.
p.s. I'm sad to say that I am spotting a lot and a lot more of Galaxy S3 since the iPhone 5 launch. People are just....well I don't know what to say.
Yeah, now everyone expects Apple to come up with something innovative every year, if not every quarter.
What has any other company produced anything innovative since the iPhone that turned the tech industry on its ear? Usually others are just trying to catch up or compete with Apple instead of going in a new direction.
Intels "Ultrbook" is the attempt fot the PC industry to compete with the Macbook Air. Microsoft with their Windows 8 Metro style tiles on desktop operating system & Surface tablet. Of course Amazons Kindle Fire & Googles Nexus 7 both competing with the iPad.
Apple did not really create a new category or the tablet. It really rejuvenated an already long stagnent tablet market. Made it easy & affordable.
$120 billion in cash. A lot of people play that as a strength. I think a lot of investors see it as a weakness. I didn't think it was a great sign when Apple started paying dividends. That is kind of a sign that they have matured and are no longer a growth stock.
$120 billion in cash, paying of dividends, it just means they don't have anywhere to spend money. Why does a company go public? To raise capital because they believe they can make money with money. Amazon made a loss? What were their expenditures? A whole lot of capital expenditures, which is sure to bring returns in the future. Apple is just sitting on a mountain of cash and it is not doing a single bit of work. Cash/Cash Equivalents and short term investments are not generating massive returns.
Their product lines are widening. If they continue to release new product lines they will suffer the same bloat and inefficiencies as everyone else. They don't know what to do. I wouldn't know what to do.
They have the company riding on one product. Consumers are fickle and quick to bore. They can't keep on making things thinner and they can't rock the boat with iPhone. Something has got to give.
$120 billion in cash, paying of dividends, it just means they don't have anywhere to spend money. Why does a company go public? To raise capital because they believe they can make money with money. Amazon made a loss? What were their expenditures? A whole lot of capital expenditures, which is sure to bring returns in the future. Apple is just sitting on a mountain of cash and it is not doing a single bit of work. Cash/Cash Equivalents and short term investments are not generating massive returns.
Their product lines are widening. If they continue to release new product lines they will suffer the same bloat and inefficiencies as everyone else. They don't know what to do. I wouldn't know what to do.
They have the company riding on one product. Consumers are fickle and quick to bore. They can't keep on making things thinner and they can't rock the boat with iPhone. Something has got to give.
Anybody think it has more to do with the general market, economic uncertainty, and the possibility of tax changes?
I have to imagine a lot of investors are selling off their gains right now before the possible change in capital gains tax. Much rather take the 15% rate versus the ordinary tax rate which could be our future.
I have to imagine a lot of investors are selling off their gains right now before the possible change in capital gains tax. Much rather take the 15% rate versus the ordinary tax rate which could be our future.
I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm also entitled to share my opinion about other peoples opinions.
And as an Android owner I think I have a leg to stand on.
Android is awesome if you want watch your wallpaper dance. Or if you want to "root" it and customize your Homescreen menus. Features I'm sure many 16 year olds would no doubt enjoy.
For the rest of the world... Apple's iOS is just... better.
Again... my opinion. Don't take it to heart.
I am not sure where you get your 660 m China mobile number.. The total number of 3G mobile user in China is only about 202M in Sept. All three of telecom in China are pretty even in them of market share. China mobile is biggest but growth rate is slowest. The rest of China mobile users are 2G and few of them are going to 3G. China is still a developing country, most of the working class cannot afford an Iphone (when an auto workers make less than 300USD a month, it is hard to afford an Iphone. The current Iphone 5 grey market price is around $900 to $1000 USD depending on the source of the Iphone. Hong kong Iphone 5 is the most expensive, US iphone 5 is cheapest.). 3G reception are terrible in most big city and a lot of the user just use texting and wifi. The kicker here is that there is no rumor on Chinese websit that China mobile is going to be part of Iphone 5 China launch while China Unicom and China Telecom dealers are already taking deposit... The Qcom chip support China Mobile 3G network but Apple need to produce a new version of Iphone for them to put the transceiver in.. Looks like China mobile is digging in and not willing to move in the subsidy issue. . Docomo in Japan is taking the same position. They both seems to content into losing market share instead of providing subsidy for Iphone user in their network.
There are plenty of information in Internet but you need to search them to figure out where Apple is heading. I can build a case that Apple is only worth $400 or less and I can build a case that Apple is worth more than $800. But the key parameter is gross margin and volume of future products and they are not as easy to answer. If you read the management comment on the new products, you should notice that they mention the gross margin are lower than the products they replace. The question is going forward is it a trend that will continue and by how much.. Wish investing is so easy that we can look at past performance and project the future. Good trading.
http://www.techinasia.com/china-3g-subscribers-china-mobile/
Looking at 3G and total mobile subscribers for all three major carriers combined, (China Mobile, China Unicom, and China Telecom), we can see that the total subscriber count sits at 1.08 billion, with the total 3G count at 202.18 million as of September.
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Breaking this down even further to look at the rate of 3G adoption for each carrier, we can see that even though China Mobile (NYSE:CHL) dominates subscriber totals, it lags behind in 3G adoption, with China Telecom (NYSE:CHA; HKG:0728) and China Unicom (HKG:762) leading the way. So while China Mobile still has the most 3G users, the rate at which it is transitioning from 2G to 3G appears to be far slower than its competitors — both of whom, coincidentally, carry Apple’s iPhone.