Nintendo Faces Investor Pressure to Bring Games to iPhone

[wovel]

http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/08/11/nintendo-and-iphones-tracking-the-evolution-of-a-rumor/

Very interesting article on how this is being blown out of proportion. And just because the investors want something doesn't mean it's a good business decision.

That does not mean it is irrelevant. Keep in mind Nintendo's decisions over the past 12-18 months are demonstrably bad.

That kinds of sums up the mentality of an Apple fanboy who has no idea about video game but rationalize and give opinions about video games, thus sounding foolish. I wonder how many of those 40 one dollar games I would want to play for more than ten minutes, compared to the average 3ds games, which also goes down in price over time.

Perhaps a fanboy who has never played video games in their life would prefer the dollar games, but they aren't the regular games players.

All the talk of serious gaming in this thread is beyond amusing. Other then professional star craft players and a handful of other titles.

Beyond that, all gaming is a diversion. I have owned every portable device Nintendo and Sony sold since the original gameboy was released. I have spent thousands on portable games. I have not touched my PSP or DS since I got my iPhone 3 years ago.

I see nothing in the 3DS or the Vita that would make me want to go back. Nintendo is now losing money. It is not some Apple Fanboy fantasy. They have done some great things and control some great IP. Eventually that IP will make it on to the devices everyone is already carrying with them. If not with the current management team, then the one that replace them.

There are 10,000 good ways to add physical controllers to an iPhone (for those that believe it is necessary), a lot of people here have a very narrow view of technology. The iPhone is more then a touchscreen. It is a touchscreen with bluetooth, wifi, a serial interface, accelerometers, gyroscopes, and a compass. If Nintendo's management can't make something out of that, so long...

 

[Brauni]

Title

I am an Apple as well as a Nintendo fan (i own a Wii, 3DS, XBox 360 and an iPhone 4, MacBook Air, iMac). But i have to defend Nintendo here.

A combination of all of the following hurt Nintendo.

1) Ugly Hardware - If Apple has taught us anything it's that design sells. Apple's products are sleek, sexy and functional. Nintendo tried copying the feel of Apple products with the white, minimalist style of the Wii and DS-line. The problem is they choose to be inspired by late 90's Apple instead of modern day Apple. The Wii and DS up close look like the cheap, bulky, plastic products they are.

I disagree here. And apart from that. you are comparing Apples to oranges.
The design of the 3DS is a lot more complicated compared to an iPod touch.

2) Sucky Software - Nintendo controls both the hardware and software of their devices, they should work together in harmony. Instead we have half baked features and services that don't work well together, work well sometimes, or don't work at all. Their eStore is a joke and friend codes is a debacle. Why bother spending precious resources on the gimmicky 3D low res camera on the 3DS that no one will use on a regular basis when you could build out the proper infrastructure for a great eStore and online gaming. Why am I calibrating a Wiimote, what is this, 1996? Why does the 3DS still use a stylus?

You are talking about a 5 year old Wii console and not about the 3DS...

3) No infrastructure - Sony learnt their lesson the hard way with the PS2 non-existent online network. Microsoft launched the Xbox 360 with a mature Xbox live leaving the PS3 to play catch up. Up to this day they are still trying to match Microsoft feature for feature. It takes a long time to build a fast, stable network. They should have jumped on that bandwagon 3 generations ago. The big tech buzzword nowadays is "cloud computing", Apple being the most successful, Sony and Microsoft and getting their. Point is, they are generating extra revenue by offering services like movies, music, game packs, DLC and more. It's not enough just selling games, where are the services to keep gamers playing those games. Pokemon would make a killing in DLC sales.

...again you are clearly not talking about the 3DS. It has a Multiplayer Internet capable infrastructure and supports patches and DLCs.

4) Casual gaming debacle - Nintendo is paying the ultimate cost of going after the casual market. I guess their mommy never told them to never leave what you have for what you don't have. The casual gamer might outnumber the hardcore gamer, but they are also very fickle. They will run out and buy the newest gizmos if it's priced right or looks cool enough but they seldom come for seconds or thirds or fourths. Nintendo all but abandoned the people that gave them guaranteed money with lackluster, sporadic hardcore games to focus on Wii Sports and various other crapware. The truth is, a lot of hardware was flying off the shelves, but no one was buying games. The casual market was more than happy with Wii Sports, while hardcore gamers starved.

The Nintendo games are among the best out there. IMO Ocarina of Time 3D justifies the investment in a 3DS. The truth is, no one will enjoy playing these games on a touchscreen, and Nintendo will destroy their own reputation releasing their games to such a platform apart from losing a lot money...

5) No HD/HDMI - Yep, this gets it's own bullet point. How on earth could you release a system with no HD or HDMI support? Sure tube TV's were still in use back when the Wii first came out, but they were already well on their way out. If the Wii support HD gaming, it would still be relevant. Everyone and their mother has an HD TV now, tube TVs are officially extinct as in, not being made anymore. Have you ever seen an SD game running on an HD TV? One word... terrible.

Can't see how this is relevant to the 3DS, the topic of this thread. Anyways, next year in June the WiiU will destroy XBox and PS3... And the Wii is the only console which generated (billions of) profit.

6) Same old, same old - The Wii U and the 3DS feel a continuation of the gimmickry. The Wii U has a huge controller that is a not quite tablet, not quite handheld potential debacle. While the 3DS is nothing more than a bigger, uglier version of the DS featuring 3D, a far more polarizing feature than a crisp, high pixel HD screen. One might argue that the PS Vita is a souped up PSP, at least Sony covered all the bases and future proofed the thing with a capacitive touch screen, buttons when you need them, and the all important 2nd analog stick. It's packed to the gills with great features and can easily cater to both the hardcore and casual markets.

I agree with the second analog stick. It is a vital missing feature.
The Wii U can use all already existing and the new touchpad controller. Most Wii games atm support at least two or three different controllers fyi.

Sony will have to compete with the much simpler and cheaper 3DS and cannot forever gift their hardware and lose money. They are just in the black numbers with the PS3 atm. This is much less a problem for Nintendo as they sell mostly 10+ millions of their own games.

7) To risk, or not to risk - Granted Nintendo takes on huge risks with underpowered hardware that uses some gimmickry to stand out, but they play it too safe in their software. There is no need for a Nintendo rumor site, because everybody knows their next game will be a Zelda, a Mario, a Metroid that is exactly the same as the last. They have strong franchises, but enough with the milking, gamers are getting disillusioned. Where are the new IP's, where is the new gameplay that takes existing franchises to the next level.

What are you talking about? The 3DS is 20x more powerful than the DS and the Wii is EOL.
Have you seen OoT on the 3DS? And did you know that you can turn 3D off and have the full screen resolution and FSAA instead?
Less powerful than the Vita? So what? The games matter more than the hardware, ask Sony. And the 3DS hardware is powerful enough for the coming generation of games.

8) App Store with a twist - At this point in time all the major players need to have an app store, and I'm not talking about a general purpose app store like Apple, but a specialized app store with full featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games, episodic content, DLC, demos, and apps that lean toward gamer centric use. This app store has to have a twist, a well thought out, well implemented social component so people can easily meet new friends and like minded gamers, kinda like Facebook but without the monthly privacy issues, and friend codes can go bye-bye too. They can still use physical media, to keep trade-in gamers happy, but give gamers the choice of physical media or download. There is a huge market for this, just look at the top sellers on Apple's store, they are all games.

/facepalm
Next time please inform yourself prior criticize what you haven't seen.

Nintendo doesn't need to be a third party publisher to thrive. They need nicely designed, sleek, future-proof hardware with fully-functional, easy to use software that is not only good at doing multiple things, but doing them well. They need a library of fantastic, innovative, full-featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games and new IP. They need some kind of app store with solid social features to build a community around, and the infrastructure to support online play and services. They need to put more effort in taking care of their base, the hardcore gamer who will spend the money, while still addressing the casual crowd. They need to spend those R&D dollars wisely, the era of the attachment is over. People no longer have space in their homes for a million crappy plastic peripherals, Nintendo needs to KISS (keep it simple stupid). If Nintendo took the time to address these issues, they'll be fine in no time.

There will be a ton of really great games being available in fall and they will sell a lot consoles and games in the holiday season. And in June or July 2012 when the Wii U will be on the market we will see how good or bad Nintendo has done so far.

 

[Rivix]

Pokemon would make a killing on iOS. Even if it's a port of the original game. But I fear Nintendo is too stubborn to do it.

 

[Liquorpuki]

When Mario just isn't enough anymore . . .

No, Mario is definately enough. The real problem is Mario doesn't come out until November.

 

[ghall]

As an Apple fanboy who LOVES my iPod touch, and also owns a 3DS, the gaming experience on the 3DS is leagues ahead of the iPod touch. If you're really into gaming as I am a touch screen just doesn't cut it. You don't get the same precision as you do with a physical joystick. I've played a variety of iOS games and besides little destractions like Angry Birds, Bejewled, and SimCity, I really don't enjoy gaming on iOS as much.

Yes iOS is more convinient for a quick game but when I'm on the bus or laying in bed I'm going to reach for my 3DS because it offers a much better experience for me. The 3DS isn't for everyone, but it still has a market, Nintendo just has to realize that they need to market this better towards the hardcore and Nintendo-fan crowd. Meanwhile iOS, Android, etc are perfect for the occassional distraction.

No, Mario is definately enough. The real problem is Mario doesn't come out until November.

The biggest mistake Nintendo could have made.

 

[diamond.g]

As an Apple fanboy who LOVES my iPod touch, and also owns a 3DS, the gaming experience on the 3DS is leagues ahead of the iPod touch. If you're really into gaming as I am a touch screen just doesn't cut it. You don't get the same precision as you do with a physical joystick. I've played a variety of iOS games and besides little destractions like Angry Birds, Bejewled, and SimCity, I really don't enjoy gaming on iOS as much.

Yes iOS is more convinient for a quick game but when I'm on the bus or laying in bed I'm going to reach for my 3DS because it offers a much better experience for me. The 3DS isn't for everyone, but it still has a market, Nintendo just has to realize that they need to market this better towards the hardcore and Nintendo-fan crowd. Meanwhile iOS, Android, etc are perfect for the occassional distraction.



The biggest mistake Nintendo could have made.

They did it to give 3rd parties a chance...

 

[blueroom]

Nintendo has always had great titles running on mediocre hardware. Perhaps it's time to stick to what they do well.

Nothing stopping them from attempting to sell Super Mario for $59 on iOS.

 

[Brauni]

.

The company just posted their first loss since they started reporting earnings in 2003. The stock price is in the toilet. The board will replace the President if something does not change. If they do not, one of two things will happen:

-These stupid investors will organize and throw out the board

Or

-The company will be purchased for a fraction it's value and throw out the board.

Would be a tragic mistake, cause Iwata is a very smart guy and knows a lot about the gaming business.

Despite what people here seem to think, Nintendo is in trouble. They have underperformed in each of the past 4 quarters and are now losing money. Management has no answers. They continue to blame the Yen, and now also blame the lack of platform specific titles for the 3DS.

Nintendo management is out of touch with the game world in 2011, particularly in portables. People keep pointing at past numbers. Look at today's number, the company is rolling down hill, slowly right now. If something doesn't change it will avalanche.

The Wii was a success story, but there were much worse times for Nintendo in the past. I doubt that they will go belly up soon and bring their games on the iPhone.

Their Pokemon spin off is already looking to iOS: http://www.maclife.com/article/news/pokemon_iphone_app_confirmed_japan . This is what is driving the investor sentiment.

What does this have to do with how bad Nintendo is doing right now? Pokemon has stellar sales.

Investors have very little influence when a company is making money. Their power grows enormously with every Yen lost.

Nintendo is a Technology Company. When the President makes statements that sound like a Luddite, then the company loses money, he will quickly run out of rope.

Investors better wait until the end of this year, else they will shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[KillerTree]

Zero chance this is happening.

 

[inlovewithi]

That does not mean it is irrelevant. Keep in mind Nintendo's decisions over the past 12-18 months are demonstrably bad.



All the talk of serious gaming in this thread is beyond amusing. Other then professional star craft players and a handful of other titles.

Beyond that, all gaming is a diversion. I have owned every portable device Nintendo and Sony sold since the original gameboy was released. I have spent thousands on portable games. I have not touched my PSP or DS since I got my iPhone 3 years ago.

I see nothing in the 3DS or the Vita that would make me want to go back. Nintendo is now losing money. It is not some Apple Fanboy fantasy. They have done some great things and control some great IP. Eventually that IP will make it on to the devices everyone is already carrying with them. If not with the current management team, then the one that replace them.

There are 10,000 good ways to add physical controllers to an iPhone (for those that believe it is necessary), a lot of people here have a very narrow view of technology. The iPhone is more then a touchscreen. It is a touchscreen with bluetooth, wifi, a serial interface, accelerometers, gyroscopes, and a compass. If Nintendo's management can't make something out of that, so long...

It's not about being a serious game, since I don't have any systems, or play any games, (I just have a DS Lite, and don't play it or any games simply because I'm older and stressed out, and much less interest in cell phone games) it's about following the video game industry, and knowing how it's runs, at a much deeper level than someone who's is casually looking at it through unfamiliar eyes.

I mean if you followed the industry, since you were a kid, what sells, etc, you would know that systems that requires peripherals just don't succeed. If a game requires an attachment, then the sales go dramatically down. Any extra step extra from just popping in a game and playing lowers sales. Including PC games, since a good chunk of people, including kids aren't even familiar with the concept of minimum requirements. (By the way, of the things you mentioned, the 3DS doesn't have bluetooh, and compass.)

Anyway, my original point is that it's interesting seeing people who are unfamiliar with the video game industry making comment, because they come off as being really unfamiliar with them, and that it's probably the same when people talk about any topic that they're not familiar with, despite the logic used.

They're using human logic, human logic is good, except that people tend to come at a conclusion only knowing 1% of a subject. When I hear some of the fanboys here saying that Nintendo should immediately drop their hardware business and start making games for Apple, it just sounds so ignorant. Especially when they use the fact that the most popular cell phone game has profited 50 million Euros as a good reason why they should. (A popular game would profit that or more the weekend it comes out, not a few years later.) I mean, to a person who has no clue about video game, the logic of 40 iphones games for $40 might sound like a steal compared to 1 game for $40, because they think a game is just a game, but for the average kid who grew up playing videos games, there's a big difference. If there was no difference, then there would be no DS, or PSP, or 3DS now.

 

[M87]

If I could play Mario and Zelda on my iPad/iPhone... yeah, that would be pretty cool. I love Nintendo's games, but I don't play enough to buy dedicated gaming systems anymore.

 

[Piggie]

I would adore Zelda on my iPad but only if Apple, or someone else can come out with a proper controller.

Touch screens are fantastic for some games, angry birds, board games, things where you need to touch/drag to make something move.

But utterly disastrous for action games where there is nothing to feel with your fingers whilst you are trying to concentrate on the action and wonder why you are not moving as your fingers are off the controls and onto the bezel.

 

[flottenheimer]

Apple once said something along the line of "Anyone who's serious about making software has to make their own hardware". I've read several times that Nintendo thinks just the same.

And they're right. Because of this very principle they've both been able to innovate on the relationship between hardware and software beyond anyone else.

The 3DS might be a miss. But I still have a lot of faith in Nintendo. Their track-record is amazing.

 

[blackburn]

So wait nintendo still exists? And pokemon, zelda, mario and those old franchises are still milked dry?

Nintendo hardware in the last years has been crap, and they think that they will do business without any change and survive? C'mon wake up the world changes, people change so does business.

Btw nintendo not doing iOS games is old news, they are too stubborn to change their business model even though they know it's failing.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Btw nintendo not doing iOS games is old news, they are too stubborn to change their business model even though they know it's failing.

Nobody says they have to "change" their business model...

Why can't they make iOS games in addition to their core business?

A decent $10 iOS game in the App Store would sell millions in the first hour.

 

[heisenberg123]

32X... wow... takes me back. A buddy of mine had the Sega CD as well.

Who remembers "Night Trap" ?

Image

i remember it, first game i remember getting banned

 

[mosx]

I'm no Nintendo fanboy at all. But theres some silly things being said in this thread.

First up is the fact that some people here seem to believe that Nintendo is dying and the 3DS is a failure. Couldn't be further from the truth. The system has already sold 4.32 million units and already has a couple of million seller games http://www.gamespot.com/news/632607...ells-a-million?tag=updates;editor;all;title;1

Granted, the system isn't selling as well as Nintendo would have liked, selling well over 4 million units in just a few months is a far far far stretch from being a failure.

Theres always a bunch of gloom and doom people saying Nintendo is going to die, their new system will fail, etc. Then that system always ends up going and being successful in some way. The only disaster so far is the Virtual Boy. But considering the 3DS has already sold over 5.5x as many as the Virtual Boy, I'd say the 3DS is doing quite well.

Now, that doesn't mean Nintendo doesn't need to make some serious changes. They absolutely need to open up some sort of "App Store" style marketplace. They need a true digital distribution platform for all of the games on the platform. "App Store" style games as well as their major releases. They need a significantly better online system. They do need to realize that portable gaming needs to be cheaper. Thats the number one reason the PSP never took off as far as software sales go. Who wants to pay full console prices for portable games? Anyway, I'd be more than willing to pay $20-$30 for a top quality portable game.

On to quality of games.. well, thats another story. I'm sorry, but iOS games just don't come anywhere near the quality of DS, 3DS, or PSP games. They just don't. Even the best iOS games leave a lot to be desired. I always end up being left wanting more out of the game, but an iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad just can't provide the experience that I want or should be able to have in 2011, thanks to being a purely touch device. And the vast majority of games that emulate hardware controls with on-screen analog controls are downright awful. Games like Nova have the potential to be good, but the onscreen controls are terrible. They completely kill it. You can't have a good racing game on iOS other than cheesy "kart" racers because the accelerometer isn't accurate enough and theres no possible way for precise braking and acceleration. It is literally impossible for an iOS device, as of this posting, to provide an experience anywhere near what the portable game consoles can provide.

GTA Chinatown Wars is a perfect example. It plays so much better on the DS and PSP than it does on an iOS device just because of the controls. And the PSP has other GTA games based on the GTA3 series, like Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories. You'll never get that experience on an iOS device.

I've also seen people saying ridiculous things like "no adult wants to carry a portable gaming device". Those people need to learn to speak for themselves. As someone who is pushing 30 and doesn't give a **** what other people think of him, if I can get good games on the go, I'll carry a 3DS or Vita with me. I have an iPhone 4 that goes everywhere with me. But as I said, the games leave a lot to be desired. Theres been plenty of times I've taken a family member to some sort of medical appointment and I've had to sit in a waiting room for awhile. I've tried playing games on my iPhone but they all end up leaving me unsatisfied or not entertained because they're too shallow, or they rely on gimmicky controls, or they're meant for a quick couple of minutes of entertainment. The ones that are meant to be played like they would on a true portable gaming system fail miserably because of the lack of controls.

So in short, Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They do need to make some changes, but the 3DS is as far from failing as the iPhone is. The PS Vita will be a hit. People of ALL ages will be playing games on portable gaming systems. Fact.

 

[blackburn]

Nobody says they have to "change" their business model...

Why can't they make iOS games in addition to their core business?

A decent $10 iOS game in the App Store would sell millions in the first hour.

I'm not really a fan of touch based gaming, but sony hardware is usually more impressive than nintendo hardware. If instead of 3d they have beefed up their ds thing with a decent cpu + gpu they would be better than with that vomit inducing crap 3d screen.

I bought an psp just to hack it an run some emulators on it because I like tactile controls, so I'm not much for gaming on iOS, sure there are many cool games but it's not the same (my little 5 year old cousin thinks I'm mad for no liking to play on her ipod touch because it has no buttons, guess times change).

 

[JGowan]

I can dream, can't I?!

Mario -- Zelda --- Man-O-Man! Wouldn't that be awesome!

 

[Liquorpuki]

So wait nintendo still exists? And pokemon, zelda, mario and those old franchises are still milked dry?

The day those franchises do get milked dry it won't be because they took the same exact game, slapped on a new skin, and added the word Rio to the end of it.

Nintendo hardware in the last years has been crap, and they think that they will do business without any change and survive?

They haven't released a new platform since 2006. So overlooking the 3DS, yeah it's obvious >5 year old hardware is crap.

Why can't they make iOS games in addition to their core business?

That would cannibalize hardware sales, cannibalize sales from their own distribution platform, lower the price point of their legacy games, and require them to lose 30% of their cut.

 

[Michael Scrip]

That would cannibalize hardware sales, cannibalize sales from their own distribution platform, lower the price point of their legacy games, and require them to lose 30% of their cut.

It might... or....

I grew up on Nintendo... from NES to SNES... and I've kept up with Nintendo's franchises over the years.

But I'm now 34 years old... and I'll never purchase a dedicated portable gaming console.

So I guess Nintendo will get 0% from me....

 

[Stowaway]

speculation at best

That would cannibalize hardware sales, cannibalize sales from their own distribution platform, lower the price point of their legacy games, and require them to lose 30% of their cut.

That's pure speculation, but so what if you're right? They cannibalize their own puny platform and gain revenue from the single the largest markets on the planet right now. Also, who says they have to lower the price point? There's no rule that iOS/Android games can't cost $20,$30,$50, it's just that no one is going to pay that much for Angry Birds. I'd pay a lot more than $3 for a Super Mario Bros 3 port.

 

[mosx]

It might... or....

I grew up on Nintendo... from NES to SNES... and I've kept up with Nintendo's franchises over the years.

But I'm now 34 years old... and I'll never purchase a dedicated portable gaming console.

So I guess Nintendo will get 0% from me....

Why would you "never" purchase a portable game console? Because you're 34? That would be a silly reason.

I grew up on NES, Game Boy, SNES, N64. I'm nearly 30. Not buying a portable game console because you're a certain age is truly silly and you end up missing out on some fantastic games. Especially the PS Vita. I'd love to have some of the current generation home console titles in portable form. Like Red Dead Redemption and Mortal Kombat. Would definitely pay for that.

 

[faroZ06]

Pffftttt
I already have a GBC and NES emulator on my jailbroken broken-screen iPhone 1

 

[faroZ06]

Why would you "never" purchase a portable game console? Because you're 34? That would be a silly reason.

I grew up on NES, Game Boy, SNES, N64. I'm nearly 30. Not buying a portable game console because you're a certain age is truly silly and you end up missing out on some fantastic games. Especially the PS Vita. I'd love to have some of the current generation home console titles in portable form. Like Red Dead Redemption and Mortal Kombat. Would definitely pay for that.

Yeah, but you carry a big device that can only play games. People want games on their iPod Touch because it can do much more than just games.