Nintendo Finally Considers Smartphone Move After Third Straight Annual Loss

[spjonez]

Nintendo has two problems at the moment, lack of games on the Wii-U and lack of integration between the Wii-U and DS.

The DS is selling well and has a decent game library, why can't I play DS games on my TV through the Wii-U? Sony can do it with the Vita and PS3/4. This feature alone would give people a reason to buy more DS games and get some use out of their Wii-U until more titles are released.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to release the Wii-U without a strong 1st party line up dropped the ball big time. From what I've read they did this to give 3rd party developers a chance to sell games (since 1st party always cannibalize sales), but without 1st party to sell the console none of the 3rd party's bothered porting their games. Now we don't have any 1st party or 3rd party hits and the system has been out for what almost 2 years?

The Wii printed money so I doubt Nintendo will be in trouble any time soon but they need to get their act together if they want to be a player this generation.

As a long time Nintendo fan my biggest disappointment is their lack of integration. I spent several hundred dollars on Virtual Console games for the original Wii, yes I can migrate those to my Wii-U but now they are selling "updated" versions for the Wii-U gamepad. My purchases only work on the vWii, so I'd have to buy them again to play them on the gamepad? And a third time to play them on my DS? They should have a system like Apple where once you've paid for it you can play it on all your devices. Nickle and dimming your customers (even when it's for Zelda) will only go on so long.

 

[newdeal]

Release original NES and SNES titles on an official emulator for iPhone that calls in to check licences so you can't pirate. Then buy blackberrys consumer division for cheap and use the OS as your base for a strictly nintendo phone/handheld (two variants, one with cell and one without like iPhone and iPod touch)

 

[GoCubsGo]

It's very simple.

Mario + Zelda on iOS/Android = $$$

Mario Kart on ipad = Top Selling App for a long time!

Release original NES and SNES titles on an official emulator for iPhone that calls in to check licences so you can't pirate. Then buy blackberrys consumer division for cheap and use the OS as your base for a strictly nintendo phone/handheld (two variants, one with cell and one without like iPhone and iPod touch)

No sense in recreating the wheel here because the above are my thoughts exactly, exception being the BB purchase.

If Nintendo would simply release their titles for Android and iOS, then I think it would be a hit. If they could somehow let the devices link to another device such as a 3DS, 2DS, and WiiU, then this would be wonderful. I play clash of clans and noticed that I can link certain devices so the ability seem like it could be there.

 

[spjonez]

Release original NES and SNES titles on an official emulator for iPhone that calls in to check licences so you can't pirate. Then buy blackberrys consumer division for cheap and use the OS as your base for a strictly nintendo phone/handheld (two variants, one with cell and one without like iPhone and iPod touch)

This will never happen unless Nintendo exits the handheld business. As much as we (customers) want this, from a business perspective it does not make sense. You do not give out your secret sauce (Mario, Zelda, etc) to other platforms, especially ones that compete with your own hardware sales. Making this move would effectively kill the DS line. Why would anyone buy a DS when they already have a cell phone and can play all the games they want on it?

 

[haruhiko]

This will never happen unless Nintendo exits the handheld business. As much as we (customers) want this, from a business perspective it does not make sense. You do not give out your secret sauce (Mario, Zelda, etc) to other platforms, especially ones that compete with your own hardware sales. Making this move would effectively kill the DS line. Why would anyone buy a DS when they already have a cell phone and can play all the games they want on it?

The problem is that less and less kids grow up with Nintendo's handheld devices and gaming consoles. Nintendo can continue today's strategy without any change and die a slow death. I have never seen any kids playing a 3DS/2DS/DS/PSP/PSV for a long long time, all of them have iPhones iPod touches or iPads, or android phones. They may have us who grew up with their games to want their games, but you can see the market changes rapidly over the next few years.

 

[0098386]

The article says, though, that 3DS sales were lower than expected. It appears that not all is well with that platform either.

The 3DS and DS have been leapfrogging sales, currently it's behind (http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251290/3ds-vs-dsvgchartz-gap-chartsaugust-2013-update/ , but thats 7 months old now). To do so with the 2nd best-selling console of all time is pretty good, though some estimates have the DS outselling the PS2... both are around 130 million systems sold. Nintendo expected to sell more, but they're currently the manufactures of the worlds best selling console. I'd be interested to see up-to-date charts now that Pokemon has been released.

 

[AtomicEdge]

Dare i say it. Nintendo should come up with their own phone. Have it android based. But includ the Nintendo eshop so you can download gb and gba games and snes and n64 titles. Keeping it childhood friendly they could have loads of patrental control options. And the phone would come with an add on control.

I really don't want to play a Nintendo games on ios. Playing sonic on ios is already a nightmare.

You must be smoking ALL OF THE CRACK if you think Nintendo could build a compelling Smartphone. Their complete lack of understanding of the internet and how people want to communicate with other people is their biggest weakness.

"Sorry, someone tried to call you but you hadn't given them your friend code yet."
"Lose your phone? Sorry, your apps and phone numbers are tied to the device!"

 

[derbladerunner]

Yeah, the Theme park idea put forward by derbladerunner would be an absolute massive drawcard for kids in Japan. Not so much women and teenagers though who make up the other 2 major Japanese demographics for theme parks here.

I think a Nintendo theme park could also work in Europe or the U.S. given the right location (there are many white spots with tourist crowds and enough distance from existing Disney or Universal theme parks).

Take for example the Pokemon franchise potential in a theme park.

Anyway, it was just an idea to expand/monetize the various IP treasures of Nintendo beyond video games.

 

[spjonez]

If Nintendo would simply release their titles for Android and iOS, then I think it would be a hit.

Some games yes, most games no. Can you imagine playing any of the Zelda series on a touch screen phone with no D-pad or physical buttons? Nintendo would have to sacrifice gameplay in a lot of games because of the (lack of) controls.

And for what? They won't be able to sell games for $40 on iOS so the games will be trimmed down. At that point are they still games worthy of Nintendo's name?

The problem is that less and less kids grow up with Nintendo's handheld devices and gaming consoles. Nintendo can continue today's strategy without any change and die a slow death. I have never seen any kids playing a 3DS/2DS/DS/PSP/PSV for a long long time, all of them have iPhones iPod touches or iPads, or android phones. They may have us who grew up with their games to want their games, but you can see the market changes rapidly over the next few years.

I've purchased all of the Final Fantasy remakes and Secret of Mana for iOS. NONE of them play as well as using a real controller and those are games without a lot of button requirements.

I agree that the handheld market is slowly going away, but it's not going to end the next 5 years. Nintendo needs to make a transition, but simply porting their games will not produce the quality we expect from them. It would be interesting if Nintendo produced a gamepad accessory for the iPhone to alleviate some of the control issues. By making it a premium accessory they might just be able to sell games around the same cost they do today on the DS.

 

[0098386]

The problem is that less and less kids grow up with Nintendo's handheld devices and gaming consoles.

Let's compare...

Mario Bros 3 (NES): 18 million units sold (selected because it wasn't bundled and is regarded as one of the best titles in the series)

Mario Land (Gameboy): 18 million
Super Mario World (SNES): 20 million

Mario Galaxy (Wii): 11 million
New Super Mario Bros (DS): 30 million
Mario Kart (Wii): 34 million (older Mario Kart games didn't break 15 million)

Nintendo can continue today's strategy without any change and die a slow death.

Slow death: sell more software and hardware (barring Wii U so far) than before?
Or "Slow death": aren't doing what I want them to do.

----------

I've purchased all of the Final Fantasy remakes and Secret of Mana for iOS. NONE of them play as well as using a real controller and those are games without a lot of button requirements.

I picked up FF1 and 2 but they're not as good as the ones on my PSP. Because they weren't as good I didn't get FF3, which I already have on my DS .

I agree that the handheld market is slowly going away, but it's not going to end the next 5 years. Nintendo needs to make a transition, but simply porting their games will not produce the quality we expect from them. It would be interesting if Nintendo produced a gamepad accessory for the iPhone to alleviate some of the control issues. By making it a premium accessory they might just be able to sell games around the same cost they do today on the DS.

It's not going away, handhelds are doing great it's the home consoles that are suffering. The Wii had a great life and the later end of the PS3 was good too. But none of the current gen systems are setting the world on fire, apart from the 3DS. Yet Valve are bringing out a console/PC hybrid, I doubt they'd enter a dying market. Maybe they know something we don't?

 

[alent1234]

its not like they get the full $40 or whatever the retail price of the game

going ios/android they have a potential customer base of more than a billion people compared to the 100 million console devices they sold

Some games yes, most games no. Can you imagine playing any of the Zelda series on a touch screen phone with no D-pad or physical buttons? Nintendo would have to sacrifice gameplay in a lot of games because of the (lack of) controls.

And for what? They won't be able to sell games for $40 on iOS so the games will be trimmed down. At that point are they still games worthy of Nintendo's name?


I've purchased all of the Final Fantasy remakes and Secret of Mana for iOS. NONE of them play as well as using a real controller and those are games without a lot of button requirements.

I agree that the handheld market is slowly going away, but it's not going to end the next 5 years. Nintendo needs to make a transition, but simply porting their games will not produce the quality we expect from them. It would be interesting if Nintendo produced a gamepad accessory for the iPhone to alleviate some of the control issues. By making it a premium accessory they might just be able to sell games around the same cost they do today on the DS.

 

[spjonez]

its not like they get the full $40 or whatever the retail price of the game

going ios/android they have a potential customer base of more than a billion people compared to the 100 million console devices they sold

And what do they lose in the process? All revenue from hardware sales, a significant cut in game revenue (even at $20 which is high for iOS games), gameplay would be shorter and less interactive (no buttons), so what are they at that point? A remake company that's run out of ideas? The world is already starting to see them that way because of the plethora of remakes and lack of 1st party titles on the WiiU.

To me going in that direction signals the end of the Nintendo we know today. They've essentially given up at that point. The original Wii printed money, I'd rather see them fail at one generation and try again then give up on everything that made them who they are.

 

[alent1234]

nintendo is doing things like its the 90's again. back then there was no such thing is backward compatibility between consoles

Nintendo has two problems at the moment, lack of games on the Wii-U and lack of integration between the Wii-U and DS.

The DS is selling well and has a decent game library, why can't I play DS games on my TV through the Wii-U? Sony can do it with the Vita and PS3/4. This feature alone would give people a reason to buy more DS games and get some use out of their Wii-U until more titles are released.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to release the Wii-U without a strong 1st party line up dropped the ball big time. From what I've read they did this to give 3rd party developers a chance to sell games (since 1st party always cannibalize sales), but without 1st party to sell the console none of the 3rd party's bothered porting their games. Now we don't have any 1st party or 3rd party hits and the system has been out for what almost 2 years?

The Wii printed money so I doubt Nintendo will be in trouble any time soon but they need to get their act together if they want to be a player this generation.

As a long time Nintendo fan my biggest disappointment is their lack of integration. I spent several hundred dollars on Virtual Console games for the original Wii, yes I can migrate those to my Wii-U but now they are selling "updated" versions for the Wii-U gamepad. My purchases only work on the vWii, so I'd have to buy them again to play them on the gamepad? And a third time to play them on my DS? They should have a system like Apple where once you've paid for it you can play it on all your devices. Nickle and dimming your customers (even when it's for Zelda) will only go on so long.

 

[spjonez]

nintendo is doing things like its the 90's again. back then there was no such thing is backward compatibility between consoles

What? Nintendo has always had the best physical backwards compatibility. Every system they've released from the SNES on has featured compatibility in some form (GameBoy player for the SNES and GameCube, GC on the Wii, Wii on the WiiU).

It's the Virtual Console they've botched beyond belief. Their digital system is so convoluted and backwards it's like they've been living under a rock.

 

[peterdevries]

As much as we (customers) want this, from a business perspective it does not make sense. You do not give out your secret sauce (Mario, Zelda, etc) to other platforms, especially ones that compete with your own hardware sales. Making this move would effectively kill the DS line. Why would anyone buy a DS when they already have a cell phone and can play all the games they want on it?

It makes perfect sense. Nintendo needs to monitor the market and their product lifecycles. Signs show that the DS platform is approaching the zenith of maturity and will transition into decline at some point. One of the reasons for that is the gaming growth in the mobile space. Nintendo needs to make a decision how to react to that. An increase in revenue from Nintendo sales in the mobile space on iOS and Android platforms might be able to offset a future decline in sales on the DS platform itself.

It's a business case that you can be sure Nintendo has made and updated several times over the last years.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Some games yes, most games no. Can you imagine playing any of the Zelda series on a touch screen phone with no D-pad or physical buttons? Nintendo would have to sacrifice gameplay in a lot of games because of the (lack of) controls.

And for what? They won't be able to sell games for $40 on iOS so the games will be trimmed down. At that point are they still games worthy of Nintendo's name?


I've purchased all of the Final Fantasy remakes and Secret of Mana for iOS. NONE of them play as well as using a real controller and those are games without a lot of button requirements.

I agree that the handheld market is slowly going away, but it's not going to end the next 5 years. Nintendo needs to make a transition, but simply porting their games will not produce the quality we expect from them. It would be interesting if Nintendo produced a gamepad accessory for the iPhone to alleviate some of the control issues. By making it a premium accessory they might just be able to sell games around the same cost they do today on the DS.

I've played a handful of games with a virtual dpad and it wasn't terrible but to some extent, you're not wrong.

 

[LordVic]

Pokemon!!! #noshame

It saddens me a bit to read this..


it was the first thought that popped into my head.

I haven't played Pokemon since Silver on my gameboy colour as a kid. Ive debated trying to play one fo the new ones, but the idea of buying a 3ds or 2ds exclusively to play 1 game (and really, thats all it would be), just couldn't do it.

make it software for my android device? DONE.

 

[nia820]

Bit of false logic going on here. Seems like you are assuming the issue is iOS when it comes to porting console games and not the skill of the programmer. Just because whomever did Sonic did a crap job doesn't equal to all console games being given a crap over. The Nintendo team might do a better job, even to the point of hiring someone that really knows iOS to help them

The problem is with the whole device. Smartphones still have their limitations. The the problem with porting console games is that those games were made for dedicated consoles. No matter how good the developer they are going to have to water down game when porting them to ios or android.

Touch screen buttons are an insult.

 

[spjonez]

It makes perfect sense. Nintendo needs to monitor the market and their product lifecycles. Signs show that the DS platform is approaching the zenith of maturity and will transition into decline at some point. One of the reasons for that is the gaming growth in the mobile space. Nintendo needs to make a decision how to react to that. An increase in revenue from Nintendo sales in the mobile space on iOS and Android platforms might be able to offset a future decline in sales on the DS platform itself.

It's a business case that you can be sure Nintendo has made and updated several times over the last years.

I don't think you are considering the risk to Nintendo's bottom line. What you are suggesting is to trade hardware and game sales for a higher volume of lower value game sales.

Currently Nintendo control's the price points of both their hardware and their games. Nintendo is one of the few (if not only) console maker that makes money off their hardware. IF Nintendo started releases on iOS and Android, hardware sales disappear and revenue per game is cut considerably. Lower revenue per game by the market (nobody will pay $40 for an iOS game which is evident by IAP games dominating sales in iOS), and they will have to pay Apple 30% of whatever price point they go with.

So unless they sell 50x (exaggerating but you get my point) more games they will lose money overall. This does not account for piracy which I'm sure is a huge concern for them. Once you switch to an ecosystem you don't control you cannot effectively manage piracy. On iOS it's one thing, on Android it's another entirely.

If they release on other platforms and people pirate vs purchase they've flushed themselves down a toilet they can't climb out of. They have no hardware sales to rely on. If I was the owner of Nintendo that is not a business decision I would make lightly. There's a chance for success, but there's a bigger chance of absolute failure.

----------

The problem is with the whole device. Smartphones still have their limitations. The the problem with porting console games is that those games were made for dedicated consoles. No matter how good the developer they are going to have to water down game when porting them to ios or android.

Touch screen buttons are an insult.

EXACTLY. This is why you don't see AAA MMO's on a console. The control scheme is not sufficient. It's the same problem with porting anything past SNES/GameBoy to a touch screen- every system since had 2-3x more buttons that games needed to function.

 

[Meandmunch]

Unfortunately for them, they're too late for a big piece of the pie. Not sure who their target market would be....

Nintendo's biggest asset is Nintendo. They will have no problem floating what ever games they wanted to the top of all best seller lists. Names like Mario and Pokemon would cut through the Clash of Clans and Dead Triggers of the world like butter.

 

[peterdevries]

I've played a handful of games with a virtual dpad and it wasn't terrible but to some extent, you're not wrong.

Agreed. But many people here think in current constraints or technology, i.e. putting Mario, Zelda or whatever on a touchscreen.

There is nothing that indicates that Nintendo would take that approach. It could very well decide to use its expertise in peripheral and controller design to make a controller that could be used with the iPhone or iPad. It could even bundle a game with it through a gift-code system.

in addition the 30% fee that Apple requires is mentioned as a hurdle. I'm absolutely convinced that the increased pull that Nintendo would create and a possible exclusive deal with Apple, would push Apple towards a lower fee rate. This is all about supplier power.

 

[Gudi]

Stubbon as always, Nintendo. I give Iwata credit for wise forethought but zero credit for not doing anything about it. It's now 2014 and Nintendo is still struggling to comprehend the definition of what online services and a proper eco-system are.

And I'll take back all the credit you gave him, by citing his 2010 statement completely:

Satoru Iwata, the Nintendo president, is understood to have told his senior executives recently to regard the battle with Sony as a victory already won and to treat Apple, and its iPhone and iPad devices, as the "enemy of the future".

He thought he had already won against Sony? So he didn't even understand the console market back than. A PlayStation is like a dedicated high-end gaming PC. That polygon-heavy part of the market is not in danger by smartphones. Nintendos core business of light gaming side-scrollers is. The PS4 was about to become the best-selling console of its generation and he forethought the opposite. How could he claim victory, when Nintendo was the one to avoid direct competition by approaching seniors!

 

[peterdevries]

I don't think you are considering the risk to Nintendo's bottom line. What you are suggesting is to trade hardware and game sales for a higher volume of lower value game sales.

I'm aware of the risk. The problem here is that Nintendo is facing a world where it is becoming less relevant due to fierce competition from MS and Sony. Not only are children ever often using tablets and mobile devices, but parents increasingly use consoles and they prefer the more adult consoles that also play games for children. The Sony and MS are just more all-round solutions that satisfy a wider range of ages. Nintendo could also think of trying to shake off that mainly children oriented brand.

Currently Nintendo control's the price points of both their hardware and their games. Nintendo is one of the few (if not only) console maker that makes money off their hardware. IF Nintendo started releases on iOS and Android, hardware sales disappear and revenue per game is cut considerably. Lower revenue per game by the market (nobody will pay $40 for an iOS game which is evident by IAP games dominating sales in iOS), and they will have to pay Apple 30% of whatever price point they go with.

I don't agree on the 30% fee. Apple will certainly be prepared to go lower if Nintendo is prepared to go exclusive. That's what I would do if I were Nintendo, also from a privacy perspective and a brand perspective.

So unless they sell 50x (exaggerating but you get my point) more games they will lose money overall. This does not account for piracy which I'm sure is a huge concern for them. Once you switch to an ecosystem you don't control you cannot effectively manage piracy. On iOS it's one thing, on Android it's another entirely.

Agreed, that's why I wouldn't go with Android, whatever market size it has. All the statistics point to the fact that most gaming and other functions are done on iOS anyway.

If they release on other platforms and people pirate vs purchase they've flushed themselves down a toilet they can't climb out of. They have no hardware sales to rely on. If I was the owner of Nintendo that is not a business decision I would make lightly. There's a chance for success, but there's a bigger chance of absolute failure.

I'm not sure about your last point, because we can't oversee the variables that Nintendo can, but I agree that it is a risk and definitely a point of no return. But it is also absolutely clear that Nintendo needs to take a radical step to reinvent it's business model, because it cannot keep relying on the DS to offset its other product lines.

 

[alent1234]

What? Nintendo has always had the best physical backwards compatibility. Every system they've released from the SNES on has featured compatibility in some form (GameBoy player for the SNES and GameCube, GC on the Wii, Wii on the WiiU).

It's the Virtual Console they've botched beyond belief. Their digital system is so convoluted and backwards it's like they've been living under a rock.

buying all your games again is not compatibility
Wii U playing Wii games is compatibility like the xbox 360 playing some original xbox games

 

[spjonez]

buying all your games again is not compatibility
Wii U playing Wii games is compatibility like the xbox 360 playing some original xbox games

Really not sure where you're getting your info from, or maybe you didn't own any of those consoles.

Until the Wii they were physical adapters. If you owned the game you could play it on another system using the adapter (cartridge for SNES and via the high speed port on the GC). The GBA could play GB/GC cartridges and the 3DS can play DS cartridges without adapters.

For the Wii and Wii-U it's not even compatibility. There's a GC in your Wii and a Wii inside your Wii-U. It's not an emulator, it's the real hardware. That's why there are 0 compatibility issues whereas Sony (never owned an XBox) was emulated and the feature was dropped due to issues.

My point was in their digital offering they leave a lot to be desired. The integration between their current digital offerings is lackluster compared to Sony. MS doesn't have a handheld so I don't think they apply in this case.