Nintendo Finally Considers Smartphone Move After Third Straight Annual Loss

[2IS]

I think Nintendo makes some really great quality games. Sadly, if they stick to their business model of not developing their games for existing mobile devices, I fear those games may be lost forever.

With the market the way it is, Nintendo would be more successful as a developer than a game device manufacturer IMO. They took a big risk with the Wii U vs creating a traditional competing console to go up against MS and Sony and that risk did not pay off at all.

Handheld gaming devices are going the way of point and shoot digital cameras. Why carry an extra device around with you when the one device you always have can accomplish the task?

 

[0098386]

Handheld gaming devices are going the way of point and shoot digital cameras. Why carry an extra device around with you when the one device you always have can accomplish the task?

A few months ago they released Pokemon X and Y, a new game for the 3DS became the fastest selling Nintendo game ever, and the best selling (launch to date) Pokemon game yet. This wouldn't happen if handhelds were on their way out.

Why carry an extra device? You're comparing a swiss army knife to a hunting knife.

 

[QuarterSwede]

I think Nintendo makes some really great quality games. Sadly, if they stick to their business model of not developing their games for existing mobile devices, I fear those games may be lost forever.

Nintendo's strength is controlling the hardware and coming up with new ways to interact with games. Also, just look how Sega is doing these days. They're a shell of their former self. It's sad.

With the market the way it is, Nintendo would be more successful as a developer than a game device manufacturer IMO. They took a big risk with the Wii U vs creating a traditional competing console to go up against MS and Sony and that risk did not pay off at all.

Many people said the same thing with the Wii launch and it destroyed the competition in sales.

 

[0098386]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The original GB combined with the GBC sold 100 million units, followed by GameBoy Advance variants at over 80 million and Playstation Portable at about 80 million. The 3DS may overtake them but it also may not.



The DSLR market has contracted by about 20% this year. It's not a good example of a thriving industry.

The GBC was a second generation device. It would be like merging the DS and 3DS today. Although if you'd like to merge them they made 119 million unit sales in 11 years. The 3DS has 35 million in 3. Looks on track to me?

Of course the SLR market isn't so great, it's a prosumer/high end device market. TVs, fridges, iMacs... they're not crazy either. Does the (currently) shrinking TV market mean in a few years nobody will be making TVs?

 

[QuarterSwede]

The Genesis and Dreamcast were great consoles.

The Genesis was lucky it did so well as it was pretty well inferior to the SNES. Although, SEGA had a following from the Master System and pretty good titles. The Dreamcast was great hardware but by that time SEGA was hemorrhaging money and it almost didn't get made. Even so, even the Dreamcast couldn't save them.

 

[Jon-Erich]

People have misinterpreted this article entirely. Later on, Iwata said that this solution doesn't mean putting Mario on smartphones. Also, I'm surprised that there Nintendo who would want Nintendo to abandon their hardware business. Yes, they aren't good with their online network, but that's never where their specialty was. They are good at designing games. They are also good at designing hardware for the type of games they want to make. After all, the Nintendo 64 controller was designed to play Super Mario 64. GameCube was designed to play games like Pikmin. There are many more examples such as the Nintendo DS and Wii.Nintendo abandoning hardware and going third party would be like Apple abandoning it's Macs and iPhones in favor of licensing their operating systems. It wouldn't be the same. Like Apple, Nintendo favors a closed hardware/software integration and doesn't work on many different machines like third party companies do.

A perfect example of a company losing it's way by abandoning hardware is to look at Sega. I know a lot of people will immediately dismiss this and remind me that Sega is more profitable than they were during their hardware years, but then I would remind that person that they're profitable because of the Sammy buyout and that even though they're making more money, the quality of their games have suffered. When Sega was making console hardware, they were one of the best developers in the video game industry. After they gave up hardware, the company's culture wasn't the same. Their approach to making games changed and a lot of Sega veterans became disillusioned and left the company. It's no coincidence that Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto is still with Nintendo after more than 35 years while all three of Sonic the Hedgehog's creators have left Sega (ironically, one of them works for Nintendo now).

I hope that Satoru Iwata recognizes the errors Nintendo has made and hopefully by the end of 2014, Wii U can have the same kind of turn around the PS3 had back in 2009. They definitely have the software coming this year to do that.

 

[haruhiko]

Of course Nintendo isn't going to change course and develop games for iOS, it's just not what Iwata will do. Don't expect them to do anything special at this moment because they still have the market and the money, just like the mobile behemoth Nokia and RIM. The problem is that the whole dedicated gaming device market is shrinking, the market is going to be less relevant than before and this is not just the problem of Nintendo, but don't forget Sony and Microsoft have many other business (smartphones!) to keep them afloat and can afford the transition.

 

[QuarterSwede]

People have misinterpreted this article entirely. Later on, Iwata said that this solution doesn't mean putting Mario on smartphones. Also, I'm surprised that there Nintendo who would want Nintendo to abandon their hardware business. Yes, they aren't good with their online network, but that's never where their specialty was. They are good at designing games. They are also good at designing hardware for the type of games they want to make. After all, the Nintendo 64 controller was designed to play Super Mario 64. GameCube was designed to play games like Pikmin. There are many more examples such as the Nintendo DS and Wii.Nintendo abandoning hardware and going third party would be like Apple abandoning it's Macs and iPhones in favor of licensing their operating systems. It wouldn't be the same. Like Apple, Nintendo favors a closed hardware/software integration and doesn't work on many different machines like third party companies do.

A perfect example of a company losing it's way by abandoning hardware is to look at Sega. I know a lot of people will immediately dismiss this and remind me that Sega is more profitable than they were during their hardware years, but then I would remind that person that they're profitable because of the Sammy buyout and that even though they're making more money, the quality of their games have suffered. When Sega was making console hardware, they were one of the best developers in the video game industry. After they gave up hardware, the company's culture wasn't the same. Their approach to making games changed and a lot of Sega veterans became disillusioned and left the company. It's no coincidence that Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto is still with Nintendo after more than 35 years while all three of Sonic the Hedgehog's creators have left Sega (ironically, one of them works for Nintendo now).

I hope that Satoru Iwata recognizes the errors Nintendo has made and hopefully by the end of 2014, Wii U can have the same kind of turn around the PS3 had back in 2009. They definitely have the software coming this year to do that.

Spot on! Someone who has actually read what happened and understands! Thank you!

 

[Jon-Erich]

Of course Nintendo isn't going to change course and develop games for iOS, it's just not what Iwata will do. Don't expect them to do anything special at this moment because they still have the market and the money, just like the mobile behemoth Nokia and RIM. The problem is that the whole dedicated gaming device market is shrinking, the market is going to be less relevant than before and this is not just the problem of Nintendo, but don't forget Sony and Microsoft have many other business (smartphones!) to keep them afloat and can afford the transition.

If it got to the point where the dedicated market was no longer profitable, Nintendo would likely build their own smartphones and multimedia devices. The difference between them is that gaming would be the primary function of these devices while their other uses would be secondary, much like how Sony is marketing the PS4 at the moment. I wouldn't expect Nintendo to collaborate with another company on future hardware development since like Apple, Nintendo likes to have control of everything.

The major flaw with iOS devices, Android devices and other multimedia devices is that while they are capable of playing games, they are not designed for that purpose. I think a lot of games suffer as a result of all this and while peripherals are made to accommodate this, not every person who plays games on these devices buys the peripherals and there are many different peripherals, which makes game development a mess since there is no real standard, even on a closed device like iPhone. I think there will always be a dedicated market where people want to buy what they consider better quality games. As long as we have companies like Nintendo putting out quality software, I think that market will continue to exist. Now, if Nintendo were to end up lie Electronic Arts and release broken unfinished games and made that a standard, then the dedicated games market would eventually sink.

Spot on! Someone who has actually read what happened and understands! Thank you!

Well, it's kind of obvious based on Iwata's attitude over the years. If he were just a career CEO who jumps ship from one company to another, I'm sure he would embrace Nintendo developing for smartphones. If all he cared about was Nintendo's stock quote and only what the investors wanted, he would have embraced smartphones. With him being at Nintendo for as long as he has been and I think because of his background as a game designer at Nintendo, he understands what is important for the company. I'm sure if he wanted to, he could give the orders to have yearly installments of all of Nintendo's major IP's just like Activision does. Why not, the stock would up. But just like rejecting smartphone development and hardware abandonment, he understands that Nintendo's IP's are more important than immediate success. It's why we only see one Mario Kart game per Nintendo console per generation. It's why it takes several year for Nintendo to put out a 3D Zelda game.

I do agree that Satoru Iwata doesn't understand the Western market very much. I do agree that he probably doesn't get online networks that well and probably hasn't spent very much time with Xbox Live or PlayStation Network, but I think he understands a lot more than what many people are willing to give him credit for. I think he understands Nintendo better than most.

 

[PracticalMac]

As a proud old gamer (been plying videogame since 1979), I'm more and more going back to the "good old days" of video gaming instead of spending $$$ on the new fps of today. Too much emphasis on video resolution and not enough on gameplay.

You know it!

all that EYE CANDY is making my brain rot (like sugar on teeth).


Iwata is thinking only of hardware, not software.

 

[d0vr]

If Nintendo did license SOME of their IPs to Apple for a one-two year exclusivity deal, you would see Nintendo bring in A LOT of dough. The key is not to price the stuff as much as a DS/3DS game.

I'm really not trying to sound like a fanboy, I swear, but I think it would be incredibly wise for Nintendo to only make for devices like Apples. Nintendo clearly doesn't want their IP to be butchered on other companies hardware, so at least if they develop for just iOS, they only have a set range of devices to develop for. They can control the experience to an extent.

If I were at Nintendo, I would be thinking a 2 year exclusivity deal with Apple for sure, in return for insider information on any major plays for the living room Apple has in it's plans and the opportunity to be launch titles.

 

[0098386]

besides, the you can't compare these situations when you carry a phone and a portable console, you have 2 devices with similar form factor, one of which can do both devices' job, but the other is more limited and designed to do only 1 thing. portable consoles will have to converge into smartphone at some point.

For the same reason a photographer will carry an SLR around, an avid reader would carry a Kindle (or dedicated e-ink device), a frequent traveller would carry a GPS device, a runner or hiker would wear a heavy duty watch. I've never played a game on my iPhone that is as good as Mario, Pokemon or Zelda. As someone who plays games a lot this isn't good enough so I'll carry around an addition device, like the 4 million other 3DS owners, the 150 million DS owners.

Super Mario Bros for 3DS was quite good, and the Mario games for Wii and Wii U look good, but I just can't justify spending £100+ on a consol for a handful of games.

Usual lifespan of iOS device support from Apple looks to be 2-3 years before the latest OS update is no longer supported. These are machines that are £399-799.
Consoles are £130(old)-£399(new), new handhelds are £99-199. These machines last the life of the generation which is 6-10 years. Average attach rate is around 12 games per user, I have around 30 games per console.

Over the course of so many years that's great. I'll live with that than being forced to upgrade to get the latest OS, potentially running the risk of losing compatibility with older games too.

if someone could explain what the hell the Wii U is or what planet it's in, please do!

Off-screen play is what keeps me using it. Being able to play full sized console games on a tablet that I can play in bed or in the living room, that's great for me. There's supposed to be some kind of multiplayer appeal to it but I don't see it. There's also the feeling of being surrounded by the game. Playing ZombiU on my giant TV and in 5.1 in a dark room, with a radar and additional sound on the tablet it really got me immersed. The most immersive gameplay experience I had until I got an Oculus Rift.

 

[Gudi]

No it's not good, nobody said it was, but it's certainly not as bad as some make it out to be. Historically no console manufacturer has gone bankrupt due to poor sales of a single generation. In fact, every single one of them has been at the bottom at one point or another, and aside from Sega which had multiple failed console's in a row none of them has gone under because of it.

Historically gaming on a phone looked like this.

Which already was a basic replacement for a Game Boy. Fast forward to 64-bit A7 iPhones with optional controllers and it becomes harder and harder to make the case for owning both a smart device and additionally a dedicated gaming device. Only because multi-purpose computers haven't killed game consoles so far, doesn't mean they won't in the future. At first cars shared the streets with horses.

 

[Renzatic]

Fast forward to 64-bit A7 iPhones with optional controllers and it becomes harder and harder to make the case for owning both a smart device and additionally a dedicated gaming device.

Save for the games. There isn't an iPhone game out at the moment that has generated as much hype or made as much money for its developer as a good console/handheld release, and the iPhone can't quite offer the same experience as a 3DS.

That's not to say it couldn't happen, because I think it very much could. It just hasn't happened yet. It's still a little too early to say that smartphones have already started killing handhelds. The potential is there, but it's only in the nascent stages. For now, the 3DS is selling roughly on par with its predecessors.

Only because multi-purpose computers haven't killed game consoles so far, doesn't mean they won't in the future. At first cars shared the streets with horses.

In a way, that's kind of already happening. You can't do spreadsheets or edit photos on a console, but they're far more PC like now in basic functionality and design than they ever have been. It's also a reason why I think smartphones and tablets may eventually supplant handhelds. Everything seems to be moving slowly, slowly towards multipurpose devices.

We just have to get to the point where mobile devices can work just as well for games as the handhelds do. Right now, the hardware is there, but not the interface.

Also, that's a terrible analogy

 

[Gudi]

In fact, every single one of them has been at the bottom at one point or another, and aside from Sega which had multiple failed console's in a row none of them has gone under because of it.

Atari, Magnavox, Coleco, Mattel, Fairchild, Milton Bradley, Emerson Radio, Bally Technologies, Commodore, Pioneer, Bandai, NEC, SNK, 3DO and Sega.

From another point of view, all game console manufacturers have gone under except of three. Two of them have large corporations behind them, with massive profit centers not related to gaming, which can compensate all loses in the console market for a prolong period of time. Nintendo is the last company still to survive as nothing but a console maker.

 

[iosuser]

You nailed it. The best software is written on your own hardware. Steve Jobs himself quoted it on the original iPhone introduction.

It is shocking to me that till this day, there is not a single Windows laptop that has a trackpad that works nearly as well as a Macbook. The Mac trackpad works as if it's connected to my brain - does exactly what I want when I want. Windows laptops, I'm constantly cursing at it in my head fighting the trackpad. The Dell Venue 8 Pro has issues with the onscreen keyboard (phantom double-tap and repeated characters when typing) and a MS update killed wifi and Miracast did not work properly. Who knows if it's MS or Dell that was the problem, had to wait until they sort that out before a fixed could be released.

The best experience is created when the creator controls both software and hardware.

PS I like the Wii U, bought it on release, but I do think the gamepad was a mistake. Nintendo should have put more horsepower in the console instead to keep the same price point, or made the gamepad an optional accessory and sell the console at a much cheaper price, and called it a Wii 2 or something.

People have misinterpreted this article entirely. Later on, Iwata said that this solution doesn't mean putting Mario on smartphones. Also, I'm surprised that there Nintendo who would want Nintendo to abandon their hardware business. Yes, they aren't good with their online network, but that's never where their specialty was. They are good at designing games. They are also good at designing hardware for the type of games they want to make. After all, the Nintendo 64 controller was designed to play Super Mario 64. GameCube was designed to play games like Pikmin. There are many more examples such as the Nintendo DS and Wii.Nintendo abandoning hardware and going third party would be like Apple abandoning it's Macs and iPhones in favor of licensing their operating systems. It wouldn't be the same. Like Apple, Nintendo favors a closed hardware/software integration and doesn't work on many different machines like third party companies do.

A perfect example of a company losing it's way by abandoning hardware is to look at Sega. I know a lot of people will immediately dismiss this and remind me that Sega is more profitable than they were during their hardware years, but then I would remind that person that they're profitable because of the Sammy buyout and that even though they're making more money, the quality of their games have suffered. When Sega was making console hardware, they were one of the best developers in the video game industry. After they gave up hardware, the company's culture wasn't the same. Their approach to making games changed and a lot of Sega veterans became disillusioned and left the company. It's no coincidence that Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto is still with Nintendo after more than 35 years while all three of Sonic the Hedgehog's creators have left Sega (ironically, one of them works for Nintendo now).

I hope that Satoru Iwata recognizes the errors Nintendo has made and hopefully by the end of 2014, Wii U can have the same kind of turn around the PS3 had back in 2009. They definitely have the software coming this year to do that.

 

[Renzatic]

Atari, Magnavox, Coleco, Mattel, Fairchild, Milton Bradley, Emerson Radio, Bally Technologies, Commodore, Pioneer, Bandai, NEC, SNK, 3DO and Sega.

From another point of view, all game console manufacturers have gone under except of three. Two of them have large corporations behind them, with massive profit centers not related to gaming, which can compensate all loses in the console market for a prolong period of time. Nintendo is the last company still to survive as nothing but a console maker.

You could say the exact same thing about the computer industry as a whole. It's indicative of nothing save that when it comes to electronics, only a rare few platforms survive.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Errr...you don't follow the news do you. Sony posted losses for SEVERAL consecutive years until recently.

And Xbox one is a consistent money loser for Microsoft. It does not make them money. In fact some of the rumors concerning the new CEO, were that if Elop gets it he would want to cut the Xbox division loose. Of course that could be total baloney but there is a reason rumors like that exist.

And then you have this...

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Nintendo-Now-Worth-More-Than-Sony-61509.html

It is weird to me, how often people just pull stuff out of their butt, without actually looking at verifiable numbers and facts. It takes 10 seconds to look up.

Funny, because it's weird to me how often people make attack posts without reading or comprehending the post they are bashing.

1) My post was talking about the "here and now," not recent past. Both MS and SNE will post profitable 2014, so how is that pulling stuff out of my butt?

2) My post clearly stated that one can't really compare a one-trick pony company with a conglomerate.

3) Also, for one accusing another of pulling facts out of butts, you are the one stating definitively that the Xbox One is a "consistent" money loser for MS. But how can that be if it was just release; being "consistent" mean over time.

 

[Gudi]

For now, the 3DS is selling roughly on par with its predecessors.

There always is a peak right before the fall.

​

Up until 2013, you could claim that the advent of smartphones and tablets had no effect on PC sales whatsoever. 2011 even was the best year of all times. With more than twice as many units shipped compared to one decade earlier (when the dot-com-bubble burst), how could anyone speak of a post-pc era?

But their handheld business makes money. It is their console business that isn't in good shape right now. Putting their games on smartphones would do nothing for the console business.

Making money is not the same thing as making a company fit for the future.

„When I left Apple, it had $2 billion of cash. It was the most profitable computer company in the world - not just personal computers - and Apple was the number one selling computer.“ – John Sculley

„It is hard to think that a $2 billion company with 4,300-plus people couldn't compete with six people in blue jeans.“ – Steve Jobs

Even Microsoft with all its software expertise and financial power couldn't find its way into mobile computing. But that is where the money is and where most developers are (going to be). Console gaming already was a niche market when PCs were the only competition. And Nintendo wasn't even graphic competitive within that market. So they went for a niche in the niche and concentrated on very young children and later with the Wii on old people doing fitness apps and training their brains. Nintendo is occupying a very specialized ecological niche. They become very dependent on a small group of customers, who are either too young or too old to be interested in other games.

 

[InuNacho]

I don't see whats with all the crying, on my Xperia Tablet Z I have full access to the the PSP/Vita's online game store and playing the games on a tablet isn't that bad. How could it possibly hurt Nintendo to offer DSiWare/3DSWare on other platforms?

 

[Lennholm]

Atari, Magnavox, Coleco, Mattel, Fairchild, Milton Bradley, Emerson Radio, Bally Technologies, Commodore, Pioneer, Bandai, NEC, SNK, 3DO and Sega.

From another point of view, all game console manufacturers have gone under except of three. Two of them have large corporations behind them, with massive profit centers not related to gaming, which can compensate all loses in the console market for a prolong period of time. Nintendo is the last company still to survive as nothing but a console maker.

Sony certainly doesn't have any massive profit center backing their gaming division up. Pretty much all their different branches posted losses in the recent years and the gaming division seems to be one the few that has started to turn it around, on its own.

 

[iCole]

Don't do it Nintendo. Stick with the 3DS and Wii U (but do get with the times in terms of OS). More new IP's, a more agressive style of marketing and doing business, buy some exclusivity, make people aware that the Wii U an interesting device to own, maybe even lower the price and totally dump the Wii pls.

 

[Gudi]

You could say the exact same thing about the computer industry as a whole. It's indicative of nothing save that when it comes to electronics, only a rare few platforms survive.

No you can't say that, because I'm not speaking about platforms. I am speaking about individual companies who serve a specific market as their mainstay. This number is down to one in the game console market. And that one company is losing money the third year in a row. So don't pretend game consoles are a flourishing business. Game consoles are down to minor devisions of big corporations which make their money in completely different markets. And they are valued by whether or not they help Microsoft or Sony to conquer or defend the living room.

 

[Gudi]

Sony certainly doesn't have any massive profit center backing their gaming division up. Pretty much all their different branches posted losses in the recent years and the gaming division seems to be one the few that has started to turn it around, on its own.

But that wasn't the case when Sony decided to enter the market and when the PS3 had a rough start because of its high retail price. At no point in time Sony defined itself as mainly a video game console company. Maybe that lies in the future of Sony, but it will be regarded as a decline of what once was the best consumer electronics company in the world, because consoles are such a tiny fraction of it.

 

[Liquorpuki]

I don't see whats with all the crying, on my Xperia Tablet Z I have full access to the the PSP/Vita's online game store and playing the games on a tablet isn't that bad. How could it possibly hurt Nintendo to offer DSiWare/3DSWare on other platforms?

Difference is Xperia is a Sony brand. You don't see Sony putting Vita games on hardware they don't own

No you can't say that, because I'm not speaking about platforms. I am speaking about individual companies who serve a specific market as their mainstay. This number is down to one in the game console market. And that one company is losing money the third year in a row. So don't pretend game consoles are a flourishing business. Game consoles are down to minor devisions of big corporations which make their money in completely different markets. And they are valued by whether or not they help Microsoft or Sony to conquer or defend the living room.

That loss argument only holds if you put the hardware inside of a bubble and ignore the first party complements that are sold with it. Console hardware is always a loss leader until a few years into the generation when component prices go down and hardware is redesigned. Which is fine because the actual profit is in licensing and first party software sales.

Nintendo's war isn't with Apple. It's with Microsoft and Sony. They have a branding issue with the Wii U, their marketing sucks, and they've made some dumb moves like coinciding the 3D World release with the XB1 and PS4 launch. But they have strong IP, which is the one thing that matters so they should be able to turn it around. Iwata already went through this once with the 3DS and all it took was an Animal Crossing and a Pokemon to fix it.