Nintendo Wii overtakes Xbox 360 to claim the top spot

[2nyRiggz]

Absolutely...well put.
I'm still not really sold on the Wii, but then I think about Mario Galaxies and Mario Kart coming out and then I'm optimistically happy again.

Indeed I feel the same way except MK.....the controls dont feel that revolutionary except for MP3 but even that game got some clunky controls. One thing Im glad about is that this gen we have a lot of choices and thats the greatest.


Bless

 

[JackAxe]

But surely more 'realistic' graphics / physics / ai / online world, and multi channel audio also enhance the immersion and interaction of a game too.

BioShocks atmosphere would seriously have been stripped down at a low resolution, lower textures and only basic stereo sound.


The real truth of the matter is, in an IDEAL WORLD we would have the 360.PS3's graphical and audio finesse, with the wii's control scheme (albeit hopefully better implemented than alot of the poor tacked on games so far).

Then we truly would have a new generation of console.


Oh well there's always hope for the 'next' next gen

BioShock's atmosphere has already been seriously stripped down to accommodate the console TARDS and their Playskool controls! At the moment, even though I'm truly excited about playing Bio, I found SlashDot's feedback of the game to be rather discouraging, since most of the guys their had also played and loved the first Shock.

And speaking of this brilliant game:

It had basic stereo sound, uber lo-rez textures that would make your eyes bleed, and controls that even I can't stand these days, but it's still the best Shock. HD and 5.1 sound are nice, but not when they thumbed down what made the other games so great. Lowered expectations are pretty much my norm for games these days. Publisher must think gamers are stupid and are only attracted to things that are shiny.

The Wii and even the GameCube support Dolby Digital II 5.1. Of course 700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.1 sound is clearly better.

Personally I would be happy with a BioShock that looked as good as MP:C -- which looks folds better than any other Wii attempt, especially its Cube predecessors and runs super fast -- but with the aiming of a Wiimote, the many options that a keyboard affords, and all of the complexities from the previous Shocks put back in and then some. Regardless I know I'll like this game even though it has been made for a "pampered" generation of gamers.

<]=)

 

[echeck]

But surely more 'realistic' graphics / physics / ai / online world, and multi channel audio also enhance the immersion and interaction of a game too.

Don't get me wrong, I like nice graphics as much as the next guy, but on the 360 and PS3 I'm still just mashing buttons. For me it's the physical interaction that really has enhanced my gaming experience.

Obviously graphics, physics and AI need to be present as well, but my personal opinion is that the Wii does a great job with this. The graphics are clearly better on the 360 and PS3, but graphics are still just on my television screen. The 360 has an incredible online community, but online features don't interest me much because there's too many people out there that do nothing but game, and I can't compete with that!

The real truth of the matter is, in an IDEAL WORLD we would have the 360.PS3's graphical and audio finesse, with the wii's control scheme (albeit hopefully better implemented than alot of the poor tacked on games so far).

Then we truly would have a new generation of console.

Now THAT would be awesome.

 

[MRU]

BioShock's atmosphere has already been seriously stripped down to accommodate the console TARDS and their Playskool controls!

No my friend it hasn't. Contols and inventory are nothing to do with the atmosphere created from the graphics, design, audio.

You need to get over this 'consoletard' business until you actually play the game. It's getting a bit 'old' now

The Wii and even the GameCube support Dolby Digital II 5.1.

No it doesnt. It supports ProLogic 2 which takes a basic stereo signal and converts it to a psuedo (fake) surround effect. It is still a million miles away from proper positional Dolby Digital.

Personally I would be happy with a BioShock that looked as good as MP:C -- which looks folds better than any other Wii attempt, especially its Cube predecessors and runs super fast -- but with the aiming of a Wiimote, the many options that a keyboard affords

<]=)

This is where you argument really falls down. Your happy with the simple intuative interface of MP corruption, and yet you criticise BioShock for having the same.

Also I really can't understand this 'deficency' some people have where they are unable after the last 15 years or more of FPS's on consoles to utilise a gamepad ?

If you can get used to the 'nunchuck' which is hardly the most comfortable attachment IMHO, then by now you should be able to use a gamepad and drop the 'well it isn't a keyboard and mouse'. Do you know what.. Your right it isn't a keyboard and mouse, now get over it, it's getting old.

 

[JackAxe]

I just started on the cT phase. I'll be on it for probably another couple days, so for me it's not old. It was that dam funny review that got me stuck on it.

Although I agree that pretty graphics and great sound really help with creating a richer environment and mood it's not the end all and can quickly loose its appeal if other equally important elements -- like game sophistication and balance -- have either been ignored or intentionally limited. For me it's not OK to remove the inventory window, because that limits what I can manage and pushes me one step back making me more of a spectator and not a participant. And it was part of the other Shocks.

One of the reasons I can't shut-up about System Shock, was because its experience had me completely spellbound. The only other experience I can think of that's similar is a well written book, but better because I had perceived freedom. Books only need words to consume me into an environment where I felt like I was part of the story, not the latest and greatest pampered technology. SS was like being in the best sci-fi horror novel I've read, but I was making the story happen. It created an atmosphere through its complexities and attention to detail, along with a true sense of urgency, that no other game I've played has yet to equal.

DPL 2 is "NOT" pseudo, since when can't a cable cary more than one signal? DPL 2 decodes the incoming channels and splits it into 6 distinct full frequency channels. Pseudo surround is what they're doing for stereo headphones, not DPL 2. I guess if higher rez gaming is a new experience, than more than 2 channels must also be a new and exciting experience. BTW, the 360 USES DPL 2. Are you saying its surround sound is fake? Or did you forget that a in this age of advanced technology from the world of tomorrow, a single cable can care more than one channel!

Could you please point out where I compared MP:C's interface to BioShocks? Because all I'm finding is my reference to how I would be happy if Bio were even at the lower visual level of MP:C. And on the simple UI blurb:

Unlike BioShock, MP:C has an excuse, it's a "console" game and has always been one, so it's a given that it will be simplified. BioShock is the pretty, but the "dim" offspring of its much richer and smarter PC ancestry. Publishers and developers no longer consider their audience capable of handling the same level of games that were so popular on the PC and this is because of the PlaySkool controls I gripe about so much. So I know that when consoles can offer better controls, like some kind of compromise, things should start to get better. Hey, the Wii has done this.

I can utilize a game pad for FPS games, but that's like me ordering a steak at McDonalds when I know I can get something vastly better at a REAL steak house. So why bother? If ones only experience has been thumb-twiddling or eating at McDonals, than I can see why they would be so resistant to change, even if it's clearly for the better. FPS games were born on the PC and matured on that system only to be gimped back to the PC stone-age by the popularity of consoles.

I like the Nun-chuck! Being able to rest my hand on my side is a just nice and quite comfortable. You must be in the minority and enjoy holding your game-controller like a tiny book with both hands cramped up in front of you. I've been thumb twiddling on analogue sticks since the N64 and have been mashing a gamepads since the SMS and NES days. That has nothing to do with the fact they SUCK for FPS games. And since I can't type with a Nuchuck, or gamepad, they clearly SUCK for that also. The only reason I mentioned a keyboard is for all of its buttons and typing ability. Using a thumb-stick to move is better than a keyboard on so many levels. And the grappling hook action in MP:C rocks! I now like the Wiimote better than a mouse for FPS games -- if done right -- since I can hold it like a real gun with a trigger, and it's much more than just a pointer. I like being able to turn a lock with my Wiimote.

And the older I get the grumpier I get. So until developers stop treating us like idiots and insulting us with overly hyped simpleton games that are nothing new, I'm not going to stop griping how the controls have suckified them!

<]=)

 

[GFLPraxis]

Also I really can't understand this 'deficency' some people have where they are unable after the last 15 years or more of FPS's on consoles to utilise a gamepad ?

It's not a matter of being unable to use it. I can use a gamepad just fine, but I am 10x deadlier on a keyboard and mouse, because I can twitch and kill three people with a not-zoomed-in sniper rifle in the time it takes me to turn around and point at someone with an analog stick.

For advanced players, a keyboard and mouse is simply superior and the way the analog stick moves is simply frustrating because you have to point and hold it. You can't react based on twitch.

 

[MRU]

BTW, the 360 USES DPL 2. Are you saying its surround sound is fake?

Yes but only when you output phono left and right to an amp.
But it nativly supports Dolby Digital 5.1 surround via Optical Spdif or HDMI output.


The Wii doesn't, and there is a considerable differnce between the two quality wise.

Yes Dolby Prologic 2 handles the seperation of sounds better than the old ProLogic, but it's result is varied, and it's still not true positional 'discrete' sound that the 360 and PS3 offer.

 

[e²Studios]

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic Matrix technology. When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track by using phase shift techniques. A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range mono rear channel (Stereo for PLII/X)—while systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard Stereo.. Pro Logic is analog 2 channel sound that uses a "matrix" to simulate either 4 channels or 5.1 channels (PLII/X) of audio over a standard analog audio source.

Dolby Digital, or AC-3, is the common version containing up to six discrete channels of sound, with five channels for normal-range speakers (20 Hz – 20,000 Hz) (Right front, Center, Left Front, Right Rear and Left Rear) and one channel (20 Hz – 120 Hz) for the subwoofer driven low frequency effects(LFE). Digital 5.1 channel sound.

I would hope/think most all 360 games are encoded with Dolby Digital, I know for a fact that no BD PS3 game is less than DD, some even have DTS encoding and 7.1 channel PCM support (uncompressed audio). Some of the downloadable PSN games are PLII.

There is a HUGE difference between what the Wii can do audio wise and what the 360 or the PS3 can do, PLII is ancient it will never come close to comparing with what DD, DTS, or uncompressed PCM brings to the table.

Hope this clarifies things for you Jack Axe, PLII isn't what you thought it was. It's ok for a analog audio source, but its old and sounds nothing like true 5.1/7.1 channel Digital audio sources.

Ed

 

[MRU]

I would hope/think most all 360 games are encoded with Dolby Digital, I know for a fact that no BD PS3 game is less than DD

Yep it's exactly the same for both 360 and PS3.

 

[mkaake]

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic Matrix technology. When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track by using phase shift techniques. A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range mono rear channel (Stereo for PLII/X)—while systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard Stereo.. Pro Logic is analog 2 channel sound that uses a "matrix" to simulate either 4 channels or 5.1 channels (PLII/X) of audio over a standard analog audio source.

Dolby Digital, or AC-3, is the common version containing up to six discrete channels of sound, with five channels for normal-range speakers (20 Hz – 20,000 Hz) (Right front, Center, Left Front, Right Rear and Left Rear) and one channel (20 Hz – 120 Hz) for the subwoofer driven low frequency effects(LFE). Digital 5.1 channel sound.

I would hope/think most all 360 games are encoded with Dolby Digital, I know for a fact that no BD PS3 game is less than DD, some even have DTS encoding and 7.1 channel PCM support (uncompressed audio). Some of the downloadable PSN games are PLII.

There is a HUGE difference between what the Wii can do audio wise and what the 360 or the PS3 can do, PLII is ancient it will never come close to comparing with what DD, DTS, or uncompressed PCM brings to the table.

Hope this clarifies things for you Jack Axe, PLII isn't what you thought it was. It's ok for a analog audio source, but its old and sounds nothing like true 5.1/7.1 channel Digital audio sources.

Ed

Not to keep harping on the sound issue, but PLII is a new implementation of PL, and was introduced in 2000... it has 5.1 channels (yes, including the LFE). The difference, as noted, is between using 5.1 discrete channels vs. 2 channels (saving the unique information via a phase shift). It's far more accurate than the original PL.

That said, I haven't done an A to B on my receiver between PLII and Digital, so I can't comment on how good or bad it is, but I do know that even with PLII on the cube, it wasn't bad...

 

[gkarris]

Dust Settles....

1. Wii, $249, fun and innovative gaming, classic games, GC compatible, family and new gamer friendly.
2. XB360, $279 - $449, HD, Online, variety of games.
3. PS3, $499 & $599, Blu-ray, advanced graphics, future-proof.

Makes sense....

Not knocking one system over the other. There's just a variety of games and systems for us to choose from. The ranking order just makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[JackAxe]

Regardless of better quality it's "true" 5.1 for the Wii and the Cube -- if the game supports it -- and that was why I even rambled about it in the first place, because "someone" here stated it was fake/pseudo. ¬¬

And BTW, DPL 2 does support digital output and yes it also supports analogue if your receiver is ancient. I just checked my Sony DVD player from 1999 and it supports Dolby Digital, so that must mean Dolby Digit is also ancient. You guys are ancient!

Here this is straight from Dolby's site:
"Dolby Pro Logic II also enables video game consoles to encode five-channel surround sound information into a stereo signal with virtually no impact on the console's CPU, which means all this extra audio won't slow your game down."

"Games with Dolby Pro Logic II technology transmit surround sound as stereo digital or analog sound. This stereo sound can be understood by an A/V receiver with Dolby Pro Logic II as five-channel surround (Left/Right/Center/Left Surround/Right Surround). This stereo sound is also compatible with a four-channel Dolby Pro Logic system."

Now if you're using DPL2 on an old movie and it's sending it out to 5 channels, this is where the confusion starts, since that can be considered pseudo/fake/simulated and would be analogue, since it's creating the separate channels from audio cues, but we're rambling about the Wii here, so this does not apply.

My 2007 Direct TV box only supports DPL 2, where as noted my 1999 DVD supports Dolby Digital. I have SPDIF running out of my dish box and digital coaxial out of my DVD, both into my Sony reciever which support Dolby Digital and all of that crap and I really I really don't hear the difference, they both throw the sound around the room when watching movies, maybe I should go plug my Wii in so I can also be saticefied with its output.

You twisted "pampered" monkeys! This thread about the Wii's success states that the majority of people don't care if something looks a little nicer, or sounds a little better, because fun, innovation, and family values are more important than thumb-twiddling in style while eating Fancy Feast.

<]=)

 

[Much Ado]

When i got my Wii, i thought the bad graphics/sound wouldn't matter because the gameplay would take over.

So far, i was wrong I like High-Def. I like 5.1

 

[stagecustom]

When i got my Wii, i thought the bad graphics/sound wouldn't matter because the gameplay would take over.

So far, i was wrong I like High-Def. I like 5.1

i believe its something that wears off, a 360 or a PS3 is pretty solid!
Alot of my friends have been realizing that the lack of Hi def and 5.1 sound is starting to get to them.

 

[0098386]

Doesn't get to me or my friends! Too fun to notice!

 

[Coded-Dude]

last time I checked my PS3 had 'enhanced controls' as well........ /off-topic console debate

This was not a surprising turn of events, anyone who didn't see this coming doesn't pay attention to sales trends.
Now I just wish they would release the colored Wii's so I can buy one(black) and play Mario Galaxy.

 

[gkarris]

i believe its something that wears off, a 360 or a PS3 is pretty solid!
Alot of my friends have been realizing that the lack of Hi def and 5.1 sound is starting to get to them.

Remember - it's Nintendo - fun and games. The others it's about an emersive HD experience, hence more powerful consoles and higher prices...

 

[progx]

Good news for the Big N! First place is where they belong, the Wii is best thing for video games and the greatest for the industry. And the greatest selling console in video gaming history! I never saw this coming, I thought Wiis would be regularly found in every store by April. Boy, was I wrong.

At my job, we've only been getting 2-3 Wiis a month. In about a week, they're gone!

It's not about graphics, gameplay! More playability, and ease of use, is what many casual gamers, and non-gamers, have been begging for.

Anyhow, the Wii is in a category of its own, just like Apple WAS, Microsoft and Sony are duking it out through graphics. But, as motion control may become a must, this good news for Sony. If many people have high definition televisions in the next few years, then the PS3 may be the dominant second. Only time will tell since it's year one for both the PS3 and Wii.

 

[progx]

i believe its something that wears off, a 360 or a PS3 is pretty solid!
Alot of my friends have been realizing that the lack of Hi def and 5.1 sound is starting to get to them.

You and your friends are just normal gamers. You can't speak for your grandmother since an Xbox controller would send her to an early grave! From learning how to use it.

 

[Coded-Dude]

At my job, we've only been getting 2-3 Wiis a month. In about a week, they're gone!

and this is the same virtually everywhere - which is the "heated" debate right now.
Nintendo could probably be selling so many more, but they are keeping demand high.
Either wya, they have nothing to worry about(for now).

 

[JackAxe]

There is no heated debate. 9 months to sell 10 million + consoles to consumers, when it took MS about 2 years and the PS2 over a year makes any wanting doubt null and void.

<]=)

 

[0098386]

WTF, are people still believing that (though with track records it's to be expected)? For Nintendo to outsell every other console in history (including PS2) they're selling more than 2-3 in each shop every month. Even my local independent shops are getting between 15-30 units per month. To say Nintendo is limiting stock on Wii says even more about the laughable state of the PS3 and 360...

Let the trolls roam I suppose!

 

[Coded-Dude]

WTF, are people still believing that

I'm not trolling and I'm not in denial, if you can prove that EVERY store is getting that many than fine, but I know of many that are still complaining about only getting a few a month. Its not fake or made up. I didn't even say they were limiting, so get it straight jimmi. I only said they could be selling so much more. NDF is in full force about denying that there are still stores that could be selling more units if they were getting more stock. and yes it is heated, look at how you responded.......

 

[JackAxe]

It's not a heated debate by any means, it's just wanting denial by some, which is rather silly given the current facts. This triggers surprised responses.

What you're saying is too conditional. Saying things like if they could get more Wiis to retail outlets, they could sell more is a no brainer. Isn't that the goal of any company that targets consumers. If only Nintendo wasn't manufacturing Wiis for the rest of the world, they could ship more to my region. If only magical little elves were baking Wii's like cookies, they could produce more. If only Nintendo's Wii didn't need components, some of which are produced by other companies already fabricating chips for others, they could ship more Wiis.

...and If only I had my coffee right now I wouldn't be rambling, and if only I had eaten something my stomach wouldn't be growling.

<]=)

 

[Coded-Dude]

what I'm saying is that the demand is still so high that its still very common for many stores to be sold out.

Game Makers have seen the demand have have reacted accordingly - shift focus to making more games for said platform. Nintendo has also seen demands, and have yet to really do anything to help retailers keep stock. Its not bad for them, it creates hype and also helps maintain momentum....the only people it hurts are frustrated consumers who go store to store looking for the console. Never did I say they are limiting supply on purpose, I merely stated they could/should do something to increase output. Again not and attack or a troll, but you guys can get defensive about it if you want. There is clearly enough demand to increase production, so what are they waiting for? It could be they are preparing to start production of the colored Wii's(I hope so) or that they are preparing more factories to indeed address demand, but there is nothing from Nintendo officials that back that. It funny how such a comment can produce fanboy comments about other consoles "laughable" situations. Anywho, I am patiently waiting for the promised dvd ready, colored Wii.......hurry up Nintendo!