nMP and avid...good combo?

[pat500000]

Depends what type you're looking for. The Nitris Box I use isn't made anymore as Avid moved away from the hardware game and basically just gave their business to Black Magic. A comparable product to the avid hardware is the UltraStudio line which conveniently does work via Thunderbolt so no need for external PCI. They range from around $140 (For just HDMI and SDI Out) to $2900 for a full studio version that has everything you could ever possibly need for IO.

Honestly though, unless you need a client monitor, you could go without hardware. If you need a full screen monitor even the lower to mid-end Black magic would do the trick, unless you need 4K. I believe that you only get 4K playback support from the top two tiers which will set you back $1500+.

We use the Nitris box because we still print / capture from tape and colour on a broadcast spec monitor. However if you don't need those capabilities than software only or a very simple client monitor box would do the trick for you.

---

As for your questions regarding Software choice. As mentioned, Avid is king in a shared storage environment. Unity, Facilis, ISIS (terrible name Avid), etc all work amazing with Avid but they are costly and not at all necessary if you are working on projects on your own. If that's the case, most people do find Premier does very well. It's about the only main NLE I don't have experience with so I can't say for certain but I know a former colleague used avid for %+ years and switched seamlessly to Premiere and loves it. Barely any transcoding, strong features, and a solid price considering you get the rest of the CC Suite as well.

Definitely try them both out(although obviously stagger the trials to get the most out of both) and see which one you personally like more.

1) is this nitris Dx that you are talking about? Capture from tape?
2) avid is king of shared storage? Sorry I'm trying to understand what avid all about.

 

[AcesHigh87]

1) is this nitris Dx that you are talking about? Capture from tape?
2) avid is king of shared storage? Sorry I'm trying to understand what avid all about.

1) Yes, I'm referring to the Nitris DX although I have also used the Mojo DX in the past. It's similar but not as many options. As for the tapes, generally speaking decks (in this case, a Sony HDCAM deck mostly) send signals out via HD-SDI which obviously is not an input that a computer or program understands. Therefore you run the deck into an IO box in order to capture or print to the tape. We print tapes on occasion but our main use for it now is to digitize either our old shows or archives we receive for shows. Most cost effective for us than sending the tapes out somewhere to be digitized.

2) Not to sound rude but how much experience with video editing do you have? I don't mind explaining, just some of these terms are pretty common. I ask because avid is pretty complex software that requires a pretty significant monetary investment. With no experience it may be a tad overwhelming.

In any case, Shared storage such as the Avid ISIS, Facilis Terrablock, or Avid Unity (not sure if it's still made) allow multiple suites to use the same footage at fast speeds simultaneously. This is compared to say using USB 3.0 drives where you'd have to transcode the material, bring the drive to the editor, and have them work off it while no one else can touch it. Our Facilis, for example, has 36TB of storage that we can assign to "Spaces" which the computer reads as individual drives. We can hook up as many suites as we want and have everyone be able to use the spaces at the same time; up to 4 streams of 6K RED if I'm not mistaken. It's unbelievable fast and versatile but also very expensive (Ours was $30k I believe) so it's only really good if you have a large number of people who need simultaneous access. Working alone, obviously, having 1 drive per project isn't much of a concern because no one else will need it at the same time.

As for my referring to avid as "king of shared storage", it's simply that it works the best with these kinds of systems. Premiere can obviously see our Facilis and work with it but its media management isn't as specifically based on drives (or spaces in our case) like Avid's is so it doesn't make full use of the technology. I assume the same can be said for FCP X.

---

To try and help your more vague request of what avid is all about, I'll say this. Avid isn't as technologically advanced as some NLE's. Premiere and FCP X have better features in a lot of areas. Mixed frame rates, for example, are getting better in avid but in general they are kinda a pain. Bringing in footage is easy when you get a hang of it but more complex when you first start to learn it because you do need to do more transcoding than in Premiere; there are other issues but anyway. Where avid excels is Media Management. It has it's annoying quirks as they all do (relinking is a mess) but in general it's very good at keeping large amounts of media organized and accessible. That has always been avid's bread and butter and still is. It's also one of, if not the, best NLE for working with broadcaster's because it works amazingly with analog mediums, see the tape information above.

If you aren't sending things to broadcast and you aren't worried about having too much media to keep organized, honestly, you probably don't need avid. I love the program but if I were picking one just for personal projects and wasn't working for a post-house I would probably be on Premiere myself. With that said, I'd need more information to give you better information. What kind of projects will you be working on (web vs. broadcast, large scale vs. small, collaborative vs. solo, etc) and what kind of gear you plan to work with, especially camera wise (DSLR, Prosumer, Pro, GoPro, Phone, etc). All of these things, as well as comfort obviously, lend themselves to some software better than others.

 

[pat500000]

1) Yes, I'm referring to the Nitris DX although I have also used the Mojo DX in the past. It's similar but not as many options. As for the tapes, generally speaking decks (in this case, a Sony HDCAM deck mostly) send signals out via HD-SDI which obviously is not an input that a computer or program understands. Therefore you run the deck into an IO box in order to capture or print to the tape. We print tapes on occasion but our main use for it now is to digitize either our old shows or archives we receive for shows. Most cost effective for us than sending the tapes out somewhere to be digitized.

2) Not to sound rude but how much experience with video editing do you have? I don't mind explaining, just some of these terms are pretty common. I ask because avid is pretty complex software that requires a pretty significant monetary investment. With no experience it may be a tad overwhelming.

In any case, Shared storage such as the Avid ISIS, Facilis Terrablock, or Avid Unity (not sure if it's still made) allow multiple suites to use the same footage at fast speeds simultaneously. This is compared to say using USB 3.0 drives where you'd have to transcode the material, bring the drive to the editor, and have them work off it while no one else can touch it. Our Facilis, for example, has 36TB of storage that we can assign to "Spaces" which the computer reads as individual drives. We can hook up as many suites as we want and have everyone be able to use the spaces at the same time; up to 4 streams of 6K RED if I'm not mistaken. It's unbelievable fast and versatile but also very expensive (Ours was $30k I believe) so it's only really good if you have a large number of people who need simultaneous access. Working alone, obviously, having 1 drive per project isn't much of a concern because no one else will need it at the same time.

As for my referring to avid as "king of shared storage", it's simply that it works the best with these kinds of systems. Premiere can obviously see our Facilis and work with it but its media management isn't as specifically based on drives (or spaces in our case) like Avid's is so it doesn't make full use of the technology. I assume the same can be said for FCP X.

---

To try and help your more vague request of what avid is all about, I'll say this. Avid isn't as technologically advanced as some NLE's. Premiere and FCP X have better features in a lot of areas. Mixed frame rates, for example, are getting better in avid but in general they are kinda a pain. Bringing in footage is easy when you get a hang of it but more complex when you first start to learn it because you do need to do more transcoding than in Premiere; there are other issues but anyway. Where avid excels is Media Management. It has it's annoying quirks as they all do (relinking is a mess) but in general it's very good at keeping large amounts of media organized and accessible. That has always been avid's bread and butter and still is. It's also one of, if not the, best NLE for working with broadcaster's because it works amazingly with analog mediums, see the tape information above.

If you aren't sending things to broadcast and you aren't worried about having too much media to keep organized, honestly, you probably don't need avid. I love the program but if I were picking one just for personal projects and wasn't working for a post-house I would probably be on Premiere myself. With that said, I'd need more information to give you better information. What kind of projects will you be working on (web vs. broadcast, large scale vs. small, collaborative vs. solo, etc) and what kind of gear you plan to work with, especially camera wise (DSLR, Prosumer, Pro, GoPro, Phone, etc). All of these things, as well as comfort obviously, lend themselves to some software better than others.

Not very much experience...but i did some research on what your saying.
Okay..so what you're saying in regards to king of shared storage is that many people can effectly and rapid work on that particular project..without having to have 1 person do this...while others wait for it, yes?

When you mentioned about bring pictures to the program requiring more transcoding..is this the reason why people don't use nMP?

Avid= best organizing nls...right?

 

[monokakata]

There are many reasons why Avid is the most-used editor in the industry. Some have to do with history, etc., but let's not worry about that, and let's not get anywhere near the editing software battlefield.

People like you, and me, and probably hundreds of thousands of individuals with large and small video projects that are going to be edited by a single person in a single room with a single computer simply do not need the same tools as people working on projects where there are several editors and assistant editors and gofers and storage managers and all kind of people who need to be looking at the project and the requirement that everything to do with the project is on known locations . . . and on and on.

Avid offers those kind of tools and production houses, as opposed to us, require them. Avid's tools are first-rate and that's why AcesHigh87 said that Avid is the king of shared storage.

I'm repeating myself, but . . . the rest of us don't need those tools.

[ I was writing this while AcesHigh87 was posting his excellent explanation ]

 

[pat500000]

There are many reasons why Avid is the most-used editor in the industry. Some have to do with history, etc., but let's not worry about that, and let's not get anywhere near the editing software battlefield.

People like you, and me, and probably hundreds of thousands of individuals with large and small video projects that are going to be edited by a single person in a single room with a single computer simply do not need the same tools as people working on projects where there are several editors and assistant editors and gofers and storage managers and all kind of people who need to be looking at the project and the requirement that everything to do with the project is on known locations . . . and on and on.

Avid offers those kind of tools and production houses, as opposed to us, require them. Avid's tools are first-rate and that's why AcesHigh87 said that Avid is the king of shared storage.

I'm repeating myself, but . . . the rest of us don't need those tools.

Right...so this is like playing video games with co-op...or two players or more...in one game.
That would be more of movie production firm.

 

[AcesHigh87]

Not very much experience...but i did some research on what your saying.
Okay..so what you're saying in regards to king of shared storage is that many people can effectly and rapid work on that particular project..without having to have 1 person do this...while others wait for it, yes?

When you mentioned about bring pictures to the program requiring more transcoding..is this the reason why people don't use nMP?

Avid= best organizing nls...right?

In a sense yeah, that's what I mean. With the facilis, for example, an assistant editor can be transcoding new material while an editor works on footage for the same project. Both of them are working with the same Space and seeing footage from the same shoot. However, without shared storage, the editor would have to give the working drive to an assistant editor, get the footage transcoded, and then get the drive back. While he's working no one else would be able to use that drive because it's plugged into his computer. In a way it's like the Co-Op Game example you gave. The same footage (game) is being used (played) by multiple people at the same time.

You'd be able to use the nMP without any issue for transcoding, most people shy away from it because the old towers still work and can have PCI cards that are often required (for example, I have the Nitris card and a Fibre channel card for the Facilis). I simply meant that PP has systems in place where you don't transcode the footage to a different format, it can basically just work with anything. Avid, by comparison, can do this via AMA but not nearly as well as they claim and, realistically, you'll be transcoding anything that comes in to an avid DNxHD codec to work with. For example, we shoot on a RED Dragon camera so the shoot footages comes in on SSD REDMAG cards. I put those into a USB 3.0 reader and back them up to USB 3.0 Hard Drives. I then link the footage in avid off of those backup drives and transcode to the Facilis where the footage is housed while it's being cut.

In general Avid has the best media management organization of all NLE's, yes. It gets a little wonky when it loses footage and it can be a pain sometimes (for example, for it to see footage it has to be in a specifically named folder on the root of a given drive, even change the folder name and it will lose the footage) but overall it's top dog for media management.

I'm still curious what kind of projects you'll be working on. Working solo it is most likely that PP would be a better option for you but not necessarily.

 

[pat500000]

In a sense yeah, that's what I mean. With the facilis, for example, an assistant editor can be transcoding new material while an editor works on footage for the same project. Both of them are working with the same Space and seeing footage from the same shoot. However, without shared storage, the editor would have to give the working drive to an assistant editor, get the footage transcoded, and then get the drive back. While he's working no one else would be able to use that drive because it's plugged into his computer. In a way it's like the Co-Op Game example you gave. The same footage (game) is being used (played) by multiple people at the same time.

You'd be able to use the nMP without any issue for transcoding, most people shy away from it because the old towers still work and can have PCI cards that are often required (for example, I have the Nitris card and a Fibre channel card for the Facilis). I simply meant that PP has systems in place where you don't transcode the footage to a different format, it can basically just work with anything. Avid, by comparison, can do this via AMA but not nearly as well as they claim and, realistically, you'll be transcoding anything that comes in to an avid DNxHD codec to work with. For example, we shoot on a RED Dragon camera so the shoot footages comes in on SSD REDMAG cards. I put those into a USB 3.0 reader and back them up to USB 3.0 Hard Drives. I then link the footage in avid off of those backup drives and transcode to the Facilis where the footage is housed while it's being cut.

In general Avid has the best media management organization of all NLE's, yes. It gets a little wonky when it loses footage and it can be a pain sometimes (for example, for it to see footage it has to be in a specifically named folder on the root of a given drive, even change the folder name and it will lose the footage) but overall it's top dog for media management.

I'm still curious what kind of projects you'll be working on. Working solo it is most likely that PP would be a better option for you but not necessarily.

Lot of times I would be doing solo editing; however, there are times when I do "co-op" with other people to work a project. Some projects are youtube based...and some are actually movies. I used to use fcp 7..and moved on to fcpx. I was just asking because I want to expand knowledge in using other formats. That's why I was curious of how nMP work with avid. I've heard lot of good things about it.

I'm sure completing film projects or whatever on time is what we are concern of...yes? It looks like AVID program is crucial if you have deadline coming up...
Bolded line: I think that's what I was seeking for.
Now...i understand why professionals would use this.

 

[AcesHigh87]

Lot of times I would be doing solo editing; however, there are times when I do "co-op" with other people to work a project. Some projects are youtube based...and some are actually movies. I used to use fcp 7..and moved on to fcpx. I was just asking because I want to expand knowledge in using other formats. That's why I was curious of how nMP work with avid. I've heard lot of good things about it.

I'm sure completing film projects or whatever on time is what we are concern of...yes? It looks like AVID program is crucial if you have deadline coming up...
Bolded line: I think that's what I was seeking for.
Now...i understand why professionals would use this.

Honestly when it comes to deadlines whatever program you know works best is generally your best bet. At the end of the day Avid is just another NLE, it can't help you complete a deadline better than anything else unless you know how to use it.

You definitely don't need shared storage, I'd put all that information behind you. By the sound of it you aren't doing anything NEARLY large enough to need that kind of investment. Even if you absolutely needed 2 people working on the same footage you can easily just duplicate a drive and give each person a copy of the project folder (which is tiny). The footage would stay linked in both cases, you'd just need to update your bins with new timelines.

IO will basically be a matter of preference. You'll want at least 2 monitors for sure to have space to work with (I usually put my bins on the left and the viewers / timeline on the right) so if the viewer there is large enough for you (plus you can do full-screen playback for final viewings and such) then I wouldn't worry about IO since it will basically just allow you to view it on a TV while you cut unless you get an expensive one with a lot of in / outputs you likely don't need.

For Web Based stuff though, honestly, I would expect PP to be better. Definitely try out both and decide which you like more but while Avid is great for Broadcast specs, I find Premiere better for web delivery. It just tends to be more versatile in the export department.

Do you know what kind of camera you'l be using? In my experience, Avid is better with pro Cameras (RED, ARRI, etc) while Premiere is better with lower end (DSLR, GoPro, etc).

Definitely take a trial run on both and see which one you like. Keep in mind though, you likely won't need the power (and price tag) of a nMP to get a good amount of power out of either program. If you can get a Tower mac Pro for a lot less it will definitely still chew through footage.

 

[pat500000]

Honestly when it comes to deadlines whatever program you know works best is generally your best bet. At the end of the day Avid is just another NLE, it can't help you complete a deadline better than anything else unless you know how to use it.

You definitely don't need shared storage, I'd put all that information behind you. By the sound of it you aren't doing anything NEARLY large enough to need that kind of investment. Even if you absolutely needed 2 people working on the same footage you can easily just duplicate a drive and give each person a copy of the project folder (which is tiny). The footage would stay linked in both cases, you'd just need to update your bins with new timelines.

IO will basically be a matter of preference. You'll want at least 2 monitors for sure to have space to work with (I usually put my bins on the left and the viewers / timeline on the right) so if the viewer there is large enough for you (plus you can do full-screen playback for final viewings and such) then I wouldn't worry about IO since it will basically just allow you to view it on a TV while you cut unless you get an expensive one with a lot of in / outputs you likely don't need.

For Web Based stuff though, honestly, I would expect PP to be better. Definitely try out both and decide which you like more but while Avid is great for Broadcast specs, I find Premiere better for web delivery. It just tends to be more versatile in the export department.

Do you know what kind of camera you'l be using? In my experience, Avid is better with pro Cameras (RED, ARRI, etc) while Premiere is better with lower end (DSLR, GoPro, etc).

Definitely take a trial run on both and see which one you like. Keep in mind though, you likely won't need the power (and price tag) of a nMP to get a good amount of power out of either program. If you can get a Tower mac Pro for a lot less it will definitely still chew through footage.

iphone 6 plus, a7s2, gopro, and gh4.
But thank you for info...your information gave me a better sense of direction..of course i'll try both...for experience-wise...but the info you provided help understand better of both products. Thanks!