No 3GHz Soon and No G5 Laptop

[Duff-Man]

I would love to have a business with margins like Apple. [snip] I could charge what ever I want, and you would simply except it. What a wounderfull business that woud be.

Duff-Man says....you really have no idea of the numbers you are quoting in regards to mark-up etc...they are not even close to that, and besides, mark-up also has to account for all the R & D that goes into designing these computers...Apple engineers don't work for free you know....you just re-affirm the poster you quote - another teeenager who does not understand how business works.....oh yeah!

 

[jiggie2g]

Looks like another teenager who doesn't understand how business works.

While I do not agree about the $1200 thing. i do believe However that is DP 1.8 system is worth no more than $1600 by todays PC standards, because other than the G5 chips and fancy case , the components are very sub-par for something in it's price range. No excuses Mac Nuts, a cheap'o 80GB HD and 256MB ram with very low end FX5200 graphics is just plain insulting to customers and to the intelligence of anyone familiar with the PC market.

i'm sorry , people will say u can get the extra stuff for a few bucks more but that is Bull Sh*t , i will not give apple a single penny more for something that should already be standard.

What if BMW, or Lexus tried to charge you extra for AC ,or even a plain AM/FM radio, maybe front air bags ...... people would tell them to go F**K themselves , becuase we expect thses thing to be standard even with a cheap ass 14K Economy car , let alone some 50K Luxary Sedan.

I bet if Apple experimented for just 1 cycle to have a DP G5 sell at $1600 i bet the volume at which they sell these machines will more than make up 4 whatever losses they encountered in the price reduction.

At the end of the Day Price always wins , not fance cases, or great soft ware. Just ask Dell.

 

[Macster389]

Duff-Man says....you really have no idea of the numbers you are quoting in regards to mark-up etc...they are not even close to that, and besides, mark-up also has to account for all the R & D that goes into designing these computers...Apple engineers don't work for free you know....you just re-affirm the poster you quote - another teeenager who does not understand how business works.....oh yeah!

Oh I get it now! The engineers at Apple must make three times as much as their counter parts at Dell,HP,Gateway etc. Apple is so good to their employees I bet they even get a great employee discount on new systems. "NOT" Steve is so tight I believe they only get a 10% discount on retail pricing. That explains the outrageous price on the downgraded version of the G5 1.8 Thanks for helping me understand business!

 

[volfreak]

Apple's margin

Most mfg Co's like to make a 20-30 percent Margin. On the G5 1.8 and 2.0 what do you think Apple's Margin is. My guess would be 60-75 percent.

As for the G5s, I can't speculate on the margin but would assume it to be in line with their margin on other products (somewhere in the mid to upper 20%, maybe low 30s). We'll have to wait and read the financial statements. But if we want to talk markup, what markup do you think MS gets on some of its products?

This from the Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12694)

Quote:
Three business units lost money. Its home and entertainment unit had revenues of $581 million but with costs of $854 million this unit had a net loss of $273 million. The unit dealing with mobile and embedded devices had revenue of $53 million but a net loss of $32 million. Finally its "Business Solutions" reported a loss of $79 million on revenue of $128 million.

Together these loss-making units generated $762 million in revenue but costs of $1164 million show a shortfall in revenue of about 35%. In particular the "home and entertainment" market is proving a tough nut for Microsoft to crack.

The business units that did not make a loss are far more interesting.

The smallest profit maker, its MSN unit, generated $58 million income on total revenue of $491 million. The server and tools unit made $370 million income and had revenues of $1866 million.

The two major units, together accounting for about 60% of revenue, were the "Information Worker" unit that deals with Office and other applications, and the "Client" unit that deals with the Windows operating system. These had revenue of $2287 million and $2809 million respectively and generated $1591 million and $2264 million.

Let's have a closer look at these profit-making units, especially at the operating costs of each unit and the profit generated as a percentage of the cost, the costs being easy to calculate by subtracting the income from the revenue.

The MSN unit had costs of $433 million and generated a profit of $58 million, which is a 12.2% profit on their outlay.

The Server and Tools unit had costs of $1496 million and generated $370 million, a 24.7% profit.

The Information Worker units, responsible for application software, had costs of just $696 million and that generated $1591 million, a profit of 228.6% of the money they spent.

The grand-daddy of them all was the unit responsible for Windows. It had costs of just $545 million but generated a profit of $2264 million, a staggering 415.4% profit on the money they put into it.
---- End quote

 

[jragosta]

I would love to have a business with margins like Apple. What is Apple's cost to build this new top of the line G5 1.8. I doubt more than $600-$800. The $1200 I refered to before should be the retail for this awsome G5 1.8. Unless of course the 5200 fx card tips the scales over $800. You sound very business savy. What do you think Apple pays for that card. Maybe $20 on a good day! Most mfg Co's like to make a 20-30 percent Margin. On the G5 1.8 and 2.0 what do you think Apple's Margin is. My guess would be 60-75 percent. OH Ya do you know what margin is. A 60% Margin is a 120% markup on cost, but you new that right. I would love to have a business with people like you as my customers. I could charge what ever I want, and you would simply except it. What a wounderfull business that woud be.

Learn to read a 10K form.

Apple makes less than 30% across the board. There's no reason to believe that the G5s are any different. And that's GROSS margin, not net.

From the 30%, you have to pay R&D, manufacturing overhead, marketing, administration, and other overheads. After including all the overhead costs, Apple makes a couple percent.

Why do people insist on making up wild-assed numbers when it's so easy to get the facts?

 

[jragosta]

While I do not agree about the $1200 thing. i do believe However that is DP 1.8 system is worth no more than $1600 by todays PC standards, because other than the G5 chips and fancy case , the components are very sub-par for something in it's price range. No excuses Mac Nuts, a cheap'o 80GB HD and 256MB ram with very low end FX5200 graphics is just plain insulting to customers and to the intelligence of anyone familiar with the PC market.

i'm sorry , people will say u can get the extra stuff for a few bucks more but that is Bull Sh*t , i will not give apple a single penny more for something that should already be standard.

What if BMW, or Lexus tried to charge you extra for AC ,or even a plain AM/FM radio, maybe front air bags ...... people would tell them to go F**K themselves , becuase we expect thses thing to be standard even with a cheap ass 14K Economy car , let alone some 50K Luxary Sedan.

I bet if Apple experimented for just 1 cycle to have a DP G5 sell at $1600 i bet the volume at which they sell these machines will more than make up 4 whatever losses they encountered in the price reduction.

At the end of the Day Price always wins , not fance cases, or great soft ware. Just ask Dell.

I don't know why I even try to educate these teenagers, but let's try it again....


You're suggesting that Apple drop $400 from the price of their computers. On a $2000 computer, they're currently making something like $500 gross margin. In order to make up for the price cut you're suggesting, they'd need to sell FIVE TIMES as many computers (first level approximation - it's actually considerably more complicated than that, but that gets you into the right area).

There's absolutely no way in the world that Apple could sell 5 times as many of these computers by dropping the price 20%. It's just not going to happen-there's not that much price elasticity. They'd go broke doing that.

 

[jragosta]

Oh I get it now! The engineers at Apple must make three times as much as their counter parts at Dell,HP,Gateway etc. Apple is so good to their employees I bet they even get a great employee discount on new systems. "NOT" Steve is so tight I believe they only get a 10% discount on retail pricing. That explains the outrageous price on the downgraded version of the G5 1.8 Thanks for helping me understand business!

Look, you're making assinine comments and he simply pointed out how wrong you were.

Learn to read an annual report. Learning is a wonderful thing. Then, once you've learned to read and understand an annual report, you _might_ be in a position to comment on the topic.

It's not that complicated. Why do you insist on making up stupid numbers when the facts are so readily available?

 

[jragosta]

I guess maybe the question is on the distinction of the G5. Is a G5 because it runs OSX? Or is it a G5 b/c it is a PowerPC 970FX?

This is under the presumption that the 970FX wasn't necessarily designed for Apple (but for other IBM projects, servers, etc.)

'G5' is Apple's name for IBM's PPC 970 series chips.

If it comes from Apple, it's a G5. If it comes from anyone else, it's a PPC 970 (unless another vendor comes up with their own name, too).

 

[dr.Zoidberg]

price wins?

At the end of the Day Price always wins , not fance cases, or great soft ware. Just ask Dell.

Well, actually.....at the end of the day NO ONE wins by competing on price....THAT is Business 101. Lower price means a trade off in some area that is generally more important in the long run. As SOO many other people have shown, comparable Window systems are similarly priced. As for the BMW analogy, it isnt convincing. I would say that stuff like RAM and graphiz cards are the Tires and Interior Fabric, which CAN be upgraded on a car, and have their low end models. BMW makes a good car, with a good engine, good HP, good Torque...Apple makes a GOOD computer, with a good processor(G5, G4 was good too for some things), great architecture, and has an awesome OS. In Business, competing on price is temporary, in the end you have to find something else to compete on...I would say that, with regards to consumer machines, Dell et al compete on service, not on quality, and Apple on quality. You really can not beat Dell's service (some guy came to my friends house to FIX her computer, when was the last time Apple sent someone to your house to fix your comp!) But you really can not beat Apple's quality. Dell knows this, but more importantly, so does Apple.
The G5 machines are quality. When they figure out how to out the G5 in a powerbook, it will be quality. The new iMac, will be quality. And people will pay for it.
-get this man some cool-aid

 

[scottkle]

Good points ... but thinking beyond

Good points about Apple being quality. I got a lot of insight from a staunch PC buddy of mine the other day.

He bought his first Apple product. A mini ipod to use on his Dell. And he was amazed. He could not believe "how amazing this thing was." How simple it is to use. He said he wished his computer could be like that.

I told him it can. I showed him the ibooks and powerbooks and G4s (then) and G5s. And he said it's not and never going to be practical to get a Mac. He said that Steve Jobs doesn't get it. Quality or not, BMW-like or not - the average person will never jump ship for a Mac -- Office 2004 or not -- because of the cost. For under $1,000 he can get the speed of the top of the line powerbook. It won't look as cool, but to him that's secondary.

I never agreed until now. If there was a "cheap" Mac. One that could get PC users excited. One that is at THEIR price point. One that makes it seem like they are getting a deal, Apple would increase that marketshare 2x. It's only a matter of mindset in the PC world. No one hates Apple. They just don't see why they should spend so much money on something they can get for so much less.

I have been using Macs since 1983. I guess that when you haven't been, you don't understand what all the fuss is about. My friend asked me why he'd pay $2,799 for a 17-inch laptop with 1.5 ghz as the speed. When I explained to him what else was in those specs, it all went past him like a train. Didn't get it at all. It was 1.5. That's all he was able to take from it. I believe all the years of hearing the megahertz myth has really brainwashed him and 92 percent of the PC market. That's what they believe.

The switcher campaign on the surface was a great idea. But, what Apple should do, in addition to coming up with this "cheap" Mac, is educate the masses en masse. In some way that could get through to people like my PC buddies.

Perhaps that involves going from city to city with an ibook G4 and a Sony Vaio. And putting them side by side and showing the ease of doing common every day tasks. Start with starting up the machine. You could be halfway through an essay on a mac in Office 2004 before you get passed the welcome screens on the Sony. The simple stuff. No Photoshop and Cinema 4D benchmarks. Those are nice and I love them, but they do nothing for the average user.

Steve was right. Not everyone can get a BMW. Only a certain audience is interested in that. I agree. And while that's great .. if you really want to get people excited, give them a reason to get excited.

And in closing .. when I visit my friend and look at his laptop -- a Dell -- I am amazed that this is the laptop he says was the best purchase he's ever made. I look at him in amazement, just as he looks at me in amazement when I sound off about my laptop. It's really quite interesting if you think about it as much as I do.

 

[dr.Zoidberg]

also good points...

I never agreed until now. If there was a "cheap" Mac. One that could get PC users excited....I believe all the years of hearing the megahertz myth has really brainwashed him and 92 percent of the PC market. That's what they believe....Steve was right. Not everyone can get a BMW. Only a certain audience is interested in that. I agree. And while that's great .. if you really want to get people excited, give them a reason to get excited.

I think you make some excellent points, and the idea of going city to city is good, the only thing is that i dont think it fits with the business model of apple, and it doesnt fit with the mindset of the consumer...
Apple's Business Model seems to be one of a niche market, with sustainable growth. It seems to me that they arent shooting to have that huge marketshare, because we all know how easily it could be done. Apple has never really showed much concern over what the public thought was "right" (ex: killing the floppy drive, so many people were pissed about that, but now, who needs a floppy drive?) I think Apple is more of a "stage of life" or "mindset" company...something that you eventually come around to, some quicker than others. I regularly drink the apple cool-aid, and i try to convince all of my friends to do the same, and i'm not what it will/does take. i think its going to take more than disproving the Mhz myth (maybe the myth busters should do a show on THAT). i think what it will take for Apple to increase their market share is for Apple to WANT to increase their market share.
then we would see some creative marketing...
but i do agree, i wish everyone could share in the excellent experience that is using Apple products.
-cool-aid in the morning...

 

[mklos]

Learn to read a 10K form.

Apple makes less than 30% across the board. There's no reason to believe that the G5s are any different. And that's GROSS margin, not net.

From the 30%, you have to pay R&D, manufacturing overhead, marketing, administration, and other overheads. After including all the overhead costs, Apple makes a couple percent.

Why do people insist on making up wild-assed numbers when it's so easy to get the facts?

Let me add on some things to that list to continue to teach these kids a lesson. First things first, Mac OS X! You are paying for Mac OS X in a way as its included in the price of the computer. It may not be the full $129, but you do have to pay for it in some way shape, or form. There is a lot of licenses, and technologies that are in Mac OS X that aren't Apple's so Apple has to license them. Someone has to pay for that!

iLife '04 is included in the price of the computer. Just take iTunes for example, they give it to you AND Windows users for FREE! There are codecs, and things like that that aren't something that Apple made so they have to license that. It costs money for that license and yet they give you iTunes for free! So as you can see iTunes isn't free to build, and update so something has to pay for it! Same goes with the other iapps.

Its not just the hardware people, its also the amount of GOOD software you get with each Mac. Whether or not Apple actually made the software its still not free for Apple to just through Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 in the software package. They have to license it just like we as customers do and someone has to pay for the that license.

Let me tell you that there is no way in hell Dell could make a $499 PC if they had to design that computer from the ground up like Apple does, design its own OS to go with it, and include some useful software with it right out of the box, instead of the junk apps they include like Real Player for example! Not to mention actually build some of their own software and include it for free with the computer. If Dell had to do all of that like Apple does you would see the price of Dells a heck of a lot more than $499. Some people fail to realize that a Dell is basically a very cheaply built PC. For $499 you really don't get much and by the time you build it up to where its actually useful its pretty much the same price as an eMac. So in my opinion they really aren't all that cheap.

 

[nagromme]

No, not publicity

First off, you've essentially proven my point that the original G5 cluster is just a publicity machine to get them on the Top500 list.

That list was NOT just a publicity factor, but a factor in getting research projects and funding. And there was a second deadline around the same time, for the National Science Foundation. Huge sums of money were riding on this. Calling it a publicity stunt is uninformed.

Big successfully made both deadlines. Nothing else could have, with such a high ranking, in such a short time, with such low funds. And now VT doesn't have to "settle" for that quick solution, they are getting Xserves at the same price. Anyone else who buys such a cluster in future will also get that price. So this is a success story for Apple, for VT, and for future institutions who follow VT's lead.

 

[agreenster]

I would love to have a business with margins like Apple. What is Apple's cost to build this new top of the line G5 1.8.question mark I doubt more than $600-$800. The $1200 I refered referred to before should be the retail for this awsome awesome G5 1.8. Unless of course the 5200 fx card tips the scales over $800. <-sentence fragment, should use parenthesis You sound very business savy. savvy What do you think Apple pays for that card.question mark Maybe $20 on a good day! Most mfg Co's like to make a 20-30 percent Margin. why are "co" and margin capitalized?On the G5 1.8 and 2.0 what do you think Apple's Margin is.question mark My guess would be 60-75 percent. OH Ya yeah, (comma) do you know what margin is. question mark A 60% Margin again, are capitals necessary? is a 120% markup on cost, but you new knew that right.question mark I would love to have a business with people like you as my customers. I could charge what ever whatever I want, and you would simply except accept it. What a wounderfull wonderful business that woud be.

Nothing cracks me up more than to see people attacking other people's knowledge in a post riddled with misspellings, poor grammar and punctuation...

 

[maverick13]

Nothing cracks me up more than to see people attacking other people's knowledge in a post riddled with misspellings, poor grammar and punctuation.

I loved the correction of his post. It reminded me of my elementary school teacher .

 

[Travis Novak]

While I do not agree about the $1200 thing. i do believe However that is DP 1.8 system is worth no more than $1600 by todays PC standards, because other than the G5 chips and fancy case , the components are very sub-par for something in it's price range. No excuses Mac Nuts, a cheap'o 80GB HD and 256MB ram with very low end FX5200 graphics is just plain insulting to customers and to the intelligence of anyone familiar with the PC market.

i'm sorry , people will say u can get the extra stuff for a few bucks more but that is Bull Sh*t , i will not give apple a single penny more for something that should already be standard.

What if BMW, or Lexus tried to charge you extra for AC ,or even a plain AM/FM radio, maybe front air bags ...... people would tell them to go F**K themselves , becuase we expect thses thing to be standard even with a cheap ass 14K Economy car , let alone some 50K Luxary Sedan.

I bet if Apple experimented for just 1 cycle to have a DP G5 sell at $1600 i bet the volume at which they sell these machines will more than make up 4 whatever losses they encountered in the price reduction.

At the end of the Day Price always wins , not fance cases, or great soft ware. Just ask Dell.

Are you out of your mind?!?!?!?!?
If price always won would there be any BMWs in their "fancy cases"? Lets compare stats...

bmw z4 3.0i: $45,000
leather interior
power everything
automatic softop
5 speed auto transmission
0-60: 5.9

honda s2000: $32,000
leather interior
power everything
automatic softop
6 speed manual transmision
0-60: 5.4

Now we have a compareably equipped honda for tons less than the bmw. It even outpreforms the bmw. But when you drive both you know the honda's not a bmw. There's certain small things that make the bmw what it is. Some intangable, some probably mental, but that alone in some people's minds is enough to make the bmw worth it for them.

Furthermore Apple provides the most complete package you can get. Unlike windows it includes a great set of bundled software and good realiable hardware. If price won all the time we would see everyone in a Honda civic, in a one bedroom apartment, eating ham sandwiches three times a day. Some people need a little bit better... so they buy a mac!

 

[Mav451]

Are you out of your mind?!?!?!?!?
If price always won would there be any BMWs in their "fancy cases"? Lets compare stats...

bmw z4 3.0i: $45,000
leather interior
power everything
automatic softop
5 speed auto transmission
0-60: 5.9

honda s2000: $32,000
leather interior
power everything
automatic softop
6 speed manual transmision
0-60: 5.4

Now we have a compareably equipped honda for tons less than the bmw. It even outpreforms the bmw. But when you drive both you know the honda's not a bmw. There's certain small things that make the bmw what it is. Some intangable, some probably mental, but that alone in some people's minds is enough to make the bmw worth it for them.

Furthermore Apple provides the most complete package you can get. Unlike windows it includes a great set of bundled software and good realiable hardware. If price won all the time we would see everyone in a Honda civic, in a one bedroom apartment, eating ham sandwiches three times a day. Some people need a little bit better... so they buy a mac!

I dunno, they are both roadsters...not exactly meant with "luxury" in mind. Personally, I don't care how much the Honda s2k costs, I would take it anyday over bmw. It just so happens that it is also cheaper to buy, faster, and cheaper to maintain (bimmers are notorious for high maintenance costs).

Since Macs are known for lower TCO, I don't know if BMW's can fit the Mac metaphor -_-.

-edit-
Ok, I see you mentioned the Civic in there. The civic, is not bought because it is "cheap". You can get Kia much much cheaper. But most people will not do that because they KNOW that the Kia will be ultimately unreliable, with a higher TCO in the end. People buy the civic for its high MPG, reliability, and even for the personality. I rarely hear people buying a Civic "because its cheaper". Hell, you can buy a Focus if you wanted to do that.

 

[aafuss1]

I would not expect a G5 iMac anytime soon and a G5 Powerbook, because cooling the G5 would be a issue for both-and for iMac, putting in a G5 in it might require some desig to changes to the enclosures.

 

[agreenster]

I would not expect a G5 iMac anytime soon and a G5 Powerbook, because cooling the G5 would be a issue for both-and for iMac, putting in a G5 in it might require some desig to changes to the enclosures.

Just to catch you up: The current imac has been EOL'ed (which means end of life) by Apple, so there will definitely be a new iMac enclosure coming--probably designed with the G5 in mind. (hence all this speculation)

I admit it would be weird if a G5 found its way into the iMac before the Powerbook...

But hey, if they can put a G5 in an Xserve...

 

[jragosta]

Just to catch you up: The current imac has been EOL'ed (which means end of life) by Apple, so there will definitely be a new iMac enclosure coming--probably designed with the G5 in mind. (hence all this speculation)

I admit it would be weird if a G5 found its way into the iMac before the Powerbook...

But hey, if they can put a G5 in an Xserve...

Keep in mind that EOL doesn't necessarily mean that the entire enclosure will be changed. It could be something as simple as upgrading the Superdrive.

 

[AidenShaw]

Xserve was *so* easy !!

But hey, if they can put a G5 in an Xserve...

A 1U computer room server is no problem for heat - it's easy to find many 3.2GHz Xeon dualies. Even IBM puts a pair of 3GHz Xeons in the BladeCenter - that's only 1/2 U effectively.

You can put lots of high-volume fans in a 1U chassis, and you don't really care how much noise it makes.

Using the Xserve as justification that a G5 iMac or PB would be no problem is silly.

 

[uzombie]

2.5Ghz G5 delivery due after August 2nd

Ummm.... no they didn't forget it. The Professor and his colleges hav worked far harder to gain what they know and he/they likely know far more then you, so show some respect.

They very likely knew that the Xserve was coming out in the not so distant future (Apple worked with them on this thing you know) but they had a deadline to meet in order to get the project funded. So they built one with PM G5s in short term to prove what can be done and to get them on the list so they could get the funding locked in.....

Sorry to jump into this flamewar but...hasn't anyone noticed that 1000 G5's takes away from the 1000 consumers that really NEED a G5 Xserve (or the processor for their box)? Afterall, its your loyalty and purchases that contributed to the Mac. Since Apple dropped the ball on the .edu, I guess you can wait...

And secondly, they (VT) had to get a 3rd party involved to improve the bottleneck built-in ethernet- its too slow. Wasn't it Mellanox Infiniband 10G products? I am sure they were not cheap ($900). Then there is the switching box.

IMHO this is trivial. Unless Intel bails out of the processor market, Apple makes an AMD/OSX deal, or Apple cuts its costs in half and its prices, nothing has really changed. (There is hope...AAPL is over $30!)

"mark my words...with PCI-Express coming...it will be remeniscient(sp?) of the Apple][..a box with slots! Its like" One big circle...with a new name..."!

 

[AidenShaw]

Let me defend Apple

And secondly, they (VT) had to get a 3rd party involved to improve the bottleneck built-in ethernet- its too slow. Wasn't it Mellanox Infiniband 10G products? I am sure they were not cheap ($900). Then there is the switching box.

Almost none of the top clusters use Gigabit Ethernet as the primary data interconnect - it's too slow, mainly due to high overhead (it takes many CPU cycles to send or receive a message) and high latency (there's a lot of "dead time" so that too long a time elapses between one node starting the send and the second node completing the receive).

Large parallel clusters depend on very high bandwidth with very low latency for scalable performance. These clusters exchange lots of relatively small messages so that the programs can be broken into many parallel pieces (this is often called "fine-grained parallelism"). If there's a high latency per message, it's very hard to efficiently use lots of processors.

InfiniBand (like VATech), Quadrics and Myrinet have specialized networking hardware optimized to do low-latency passing of small messages. Typical performance for a round-trip ping with a small message on these interconnects is 5 to 10 microseconds. That's why you'll find these interconnects on most of the larger clusters. (These interconnects also do very high bandwidth transfers of large messages, but low latency is at least as important for TFLOP computers.)

For coarse-grained parallelism (like video rendering where large messages are exchanged, and each "work packet" takes quite a long time to process) a Gigabit Ethernet cluster can be quite good. The important thing is that the total time on the network (latency + bandwidth) is small compared to the CPU time needed to process the "work packet".

If you want a supercluster, a thousand bucks or so per node for a low latency interconnect is well worth the money.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Keep in mind that EOL doesn't necessarily mean that the entire enclosure will be changed. It could be something as simple as upgrading the Superdrive.

True, but there have been plenty of indications that the iMac is do for an update. The most obvious is the fact that the eMac has slowly caught up to it in terms of specifications. Secondly, there is the length of time between updates even if you count the addition of the 20" iMac it has been a while since we have seen an update to the line.
Finally, I find it telling that while Mr. Boger said that he did not expect to see the G5 in a PowerBook "anytime soon" when asked about the iMac he said it would be "heck of a challenge as well". He didn't say it was impossible, and I personally think that the Apple engineers are up the challenge. Maybe we will see the liquid cooling technology of the 2.5GHz G5 used in the iMac.

 

[agreenster]

Using the Xserve as justification that a G5 iMac or PB would be no problem is silly.

I know. I was just making a sideways comment that at least Apple has put the G5 in a smaller form factor than a tower. I'm not not implying anything, just that they're making some progress.