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No EFI Support on Windows Vista?
- Thread starter MacBytes
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No EFI Support on Windows Vista?
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APCMag reports that Microsoft has made comments that the upcoming version of Microsoft Windows Vista will not support Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) booting as some had expected.
Many Intel Mac owners were expecting that Windows Vista support for EFI would allow users to easily boot the newest version of Windows on their Macs. The Intel Macs only incorporate EFI booting, while older PCs typically use BIOS.
ZDNet quotes an Apple Senior Software Architect who expressed his doubts that Vista would be easily bootable on the Intel Macs. Support for EFI booting was initially planned for only 64-bit versions of Windows while all Intel Macs presently have 32-bit chips (Core Duo). As well, he admits that Apple has not included much legacy code in their EFI implementation which would allow older BIOS dependent software from being directly supported.
APCMag reports that Microsoft has made comments that the upcoming version of Microsoft Windows Vista will not support Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) booting as some had expected.
Many Intel Mac owners were expecting that Windows Vista support for EFI would allow users to easily boot the newest version of Windows on their Macs. The Intel Macs only incorporate EFI booting, while older PCs typically use BIOS.
ZDNet quotes an Apple Senior Software Architect who expressed his doubts that Vista would be easily bootable on the Intel Macs. Support for EFI booting was initially planned for only 64-bit versions of Windows while all Intel Macs presently have 32-bit chips (Core Duo). As well, he admits that Apple has not included much legacy code in their EFI implementation which would allow older BIOS dependent software from being directly supported.
I imagine that Microsoft is looking at a gold mind with updating VPC to be much faster on the new x86 Macs.Kingsly said:
They win because Mac users will purchase a copy of Windows along with VPC.
The solution is good for them and good for Apple.
Kingsly said:
I agree. This is the chance for microsoft to really make a great product. I would love to see a VPC that runs at nearly native speeds and does not work in a window. Now i know there would be some weird little things to work around there but i would love to see a VPC that works like rosetta.
When something like this happens or dual booting becomes fairly easy that is when i will go out and get a new iMac. It is not cause i like windows or that i intend to use it all that often but there are some things for my major that i will need and they only run on windows. And it would be so much nicer to sit in my dorm/apartement then have to sit in a campus computer lab.
I really would rather use a VMware solution.
Anyone have more info on that running Linux on the iMacs and running Windows under it? I saw a snippet but not much info.
Anyone have more info on that running Linux on the iMacs and running Windows under it? I saw a snippet but not much info.
sam10685 said:
A lot of people... Didn't you see the quote about Apple's market share increasing by DOUBLE what it is now if they can make it easy to boot into Windows?
I get the distinct feeling that this was a politically-motivated move. Microsoft has backed away from EFI because supporting it would be following Apple and catering to the interests of Mac users (which represent the dominant market share in EFI computers right now). I think they're trying to force Apple into including CSM so that they're the ones who have to cozy up to Microsoft and not the other way around. It'll be interesting to see if Apple will give in or not (I'm hoping not, even if it would make things easier).
Mechcozmo said:
WINE on OSX for x86 is pretty unusable. I mean, I think they got Calculator and Minesweeper to work, but if you want to use any real apps like a windows CAD program or a game or Access, then your SOL.
Irrational dislike of Microsoft?mlrproducts said:
x86 Virtual Machine Monitors (VMMs) have to do some convoluted stuff to allow a virtual machine to think that it's running in ring 0 (kernel) even though it's running in ring 3 (user).
No current VMM supports the concept of running a VMM inside a virtual machine - so I doubt that whatever "snippet" you saw would really do what you want.
Intel's VT (Virtualization Technology) adds a "ring -1" so that the kernel in the virtual machine can think that it's running in ring 0.
It might be possible to run a traditional VMM underneath a VT-capable VMM - but it would probably take a bunch of coding that no "for-profit" company would support.
longofest said:
i didn't see it and i understand why a lot of people would like to be able to boot nto windos xp/vista... but microsoft makes such crap products dude... i hate hearing about vista. lets talk about Leopard!!
Well, I am absolutely no conspiracy theorist usually, other than thinking corporations are 100% out for themselves, but this really, really seems to me as a direct reaction to Apple using EFI on MacIntels. Maybe this is the start of M$ going out of their way to make it as difficult as possible for anyone, including Apple, to run windows or windows apps natively w/o the craptacular VPC (which may never again be updated for all we know since it would now be able to run at full speed).
Interesting times kids..
Interesting times kids..
matticus008 said:
Do you really think MS really cares that much about Apple??? I think it was more a technical problem, and they are having to cut features in order to get the release out on time. IF it is a politically motivated decision, then it is most definitely something that the hardware manufacturers were pushing for since they are so locked into BIOS.
The only logic I can see behind MS being scared of Apple is the recent report sighting Apple doubling its marketshare if they could dual-boot easily.
Is making an OS support EFI a really big undertaking? So assuming MS has been working on that, actually finishing the job by the end of the year might be too big a task to complete on time?
(In other words, is some other reason more likely?)
"a lack of available desktop PCs with EFI support on the market" makes little sense: Vista's not trying to sell TODAY, nor targeting only today's hardware.
(In other words, is some other reason more likely?)
"a lack of available desktop PCs with EFI support on the market" makes little sense: Vista's not trying to sell TODAY, nor targeting only today's hardware.
That's one way for MS to ensure that Windows won't boot on a Mac. Next MS will go back to punch cards and then they'll have everyone right where they want them!ibook30 said: