No Flash Support on the iPhone

[Counter]

You can argue that - and from a design point of view, I won't completely disagree (I do cringe at some high level sites that are designed purely in Flash) - but flash is not an archaic standard - it continues to evolve and with each innovation, it's uses become more and more intertwined with the rest of the net. Holding the belief that flash is slow, sucks up CPU and GPU power and is unnecessary is really the more 1990s windows thing - at least in my humble opinion. Just because Java hasn't evolved to the point where it can exist without taking up a jillion resources (which is what I call true bloathware) doesn't mean Flash hasn't gone above and beyond some of its earlier deficits. As an application it is so much more than just animated menus and roll-over effects...

Boom!

I agree.

Cringe worthy sites are down to crappy designers/developers, whatever the platform they're developing for. I do, however, think it's considerably easier to design cringe worthy sites in Flash. As there are many barriers to creating good sites in Flash (really requiring solid working knowledge of multiple technologies, not just Actionscript, other programs etc) and there's a whoooole lot of freedom. Put anything anywhere you want! Oh but please not there! And making light weight snappy sites in Flash requires advanced knowledge and nothing less. But the fact is; it gets done. Brilliantly by many, many, many awesome Flash developers out there.

Flash is also absolutely flying in terms of progression. Actionscript 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 were all huge leaps for the language. And less than a couple of years between each. Going from pretty much bits of scripts to add to animations (1.0) to supporting full object orientated programming (2.0) to a full blown object orientated language (3.0).

 

[Asar]

Hi all,

IMO-web video content will be available on the iPhone, but we must all have patience, or not.

But in the mean time, if anyone want to see JavaScript working on the iPhone, take a look at the Keynote. You can see the Hot News Headlines ticker on apple.com working really nice on the iPhone during the Keynote presentation. This occurred when Scott Forestall V.P. of iPhone software does his demonstration near the end of the Keynote, from about 1:17 to 1:17:50.

Sorry, 1st time I see something moving on the iPhone Safari browser since it gave light. lol

nice observation. flash will come in time.

 

[nickspohn]

Hi all,

IMO-web video content will be available on the iPhone, but we must all have patience, or not.

But in the mean time, if anyone want to see JavaScript working on the iPhone, take a look at the Keynote. You can see the Hot News Headlines ticker on apple.com working really nice on the iPhone during the Keynote presentation. This occurred when Scott Forestall V.P. of iPhone software does his demonstration near the end of the Keynote, from about 1:17 to 1:17:50.

Sorry, 1st time I see something moving on the iPhone Safari browser since it gave light. lol

wow good eye

 

[thabih]

iPhone promotional video shows flash content displayed

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/tips_tours/2007/internet_safari_angle_20070611.mov

 

[kevinwiz]

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/12/its-official-no-flash-support-on-the-iphone-yet/
okay so its coming just not immediately

 

[Asar]

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/tips_tours/2007/internet_safari_angle_20070611.mov

actually, looking at the new york times in this video, it doesnt show flash, just a blank white spot. not even the blue "lego" with the question mark like there was on the keynote.

 

[WolfgangK]

Flash support never even occurred to me. In fact, I assumed it would not be supported without even thinking about it.

Ever monitor what some really gooey flash does to CPU usage? No surprise that a mini OSX would not even bother supporting it.

Flash is worthless and is really ancient at this point. Anyone with enough CSS and Java talent left Flash in the dust a long time ago.

No matter what anyone on here says, you don't need flash...its a 1990's windows thing.

I agree. Flash is completely worthless – NOT. Perhaps if you view the internet simply as a place to distribute information. A more enlightened view, would say that the internet is what we make it. And for some, Flash is a technology used to create an experience:
http://www.planetamadeo.com

It is for me at least. It's a canvas. And the web is a medium just like film/tv/music/radio. Unfortunately, it's taking me a long time to finish this painting, but it's just as valid a use of the web and Flash technology. And IMO certainly not worthless.

There is certainly a lot of crap out there, poorly designed and whatnot. But to slam Flash as worthless and ancient, when some are using the technology to do cool things and express themselves(isn't that what Web 2.0 is about???) IMHO is extremely short-sighted and ignorant.

The web/Machine is us:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6gmP4nk0EOE

Not what some company says qualifies as the web, or what technology is required to get the full web experience. The web is what we make it. Flash is a ubiquitous technology used on the web. It is anything but ancient and worthless.

 

[wrightc23]

Not even Flash Lite support. Bleh!

This is a bit of a bummer since it supposedly runs full desktop apps. I was really hoping for Flash 8+ support. Anyway, I'm sure this will be remedied shortly and we will see at least FL 2x support.

<]=)

Sorry I may be on my own with this one. It's true to say that pure mobile internet access is not dependent on Flash and Java. However I've built up the impression from Apple that the iPhone is going to be the first truly portable internet browser. Flash is now an integral part of the internet experience and without it the iPhone won't offer much more of an experience than the technology already available. Don't forget it won't be cheap.

 

[surferfromuk]

Its sooo much more complicated than you could even begin to imagine.

Apple doesn't want 3rd parties to be able to "touch" the phone...because, well, they don't trust them...on this platform.

You ever wonder why there aren't a ton of iPod games?

That's your response ? 'it's much more complicated than I could even begin to imagine' ???

Am I a retard with a negative IQ?

Anyway, I'll ignore the touch of condescension and answer your reply in good faith ;

Let's just be clear on what your stating here :

You claimed earlier that there are NO RESTRICTIONS by AT&T and that it's Apple's own internal decision not to make an Ichat client for the iphone - right ?

SO....adding that to your 'one good reason' means ;

Apple have not developed a VOIP ichat client THEMSELVES ( which obviously would at least be as reliable the cellular client ?) because they are AFRAID of third party developers...

That argument makes NO SENSE at all. The two issues are totally not related.

If you told me that AT&T's network could not support it I would accept that as a reason but not 'because they are afraid of third party apps'.

 

[Asar]

i know one thing, there are tons of good free games on the net that use flash. from monopoly, to anything on miniclip.com
with the flash plugin, we wouldn't be hurting for games from jump

 

[BiikeMike]

If I can't watch the end of the world on my iPhone, whatever will I do?

 

[spotlight07]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure Adobe can write a Flash plug-in for iPhone using AJAX and Web 2.0 technologies

That was great!

"It’s not the kinda-sorta internet... It’s just the internet...
...without Flash and Java." That's what they should say...

Of the three, mobile internet is my favorite feature. For times away from my MacBook. iPod is next but a lot lower on the list. Up to a month ago I didn't even own an iPod (was a gift). (I've always used iTunes connected to my stereo and now my aTV. I enjoy music mostly at home.) Honestly, I would rather stick with my current cell phone company, so to me the phone feature as great as it is---is a negative because of the two year contract with the provider.

I'm an early adopter so I'd probably get the iPhone on day one even if I knew it leaked battery acid or burst into flames or turned my tongue green, but no Flash support is a real bummer. Most car companies use Flash and even my church uses Flash (they're a mega church though.) I do visit websites that use flash elements (other than ads) often.

Some elements of websites are Flash-based and people don't even realize it. Sure Ajax can do Flash-esque stuff too, but Flash can do cross-browser support and embed fonts. I realize that's not important if you're scripting for the iPhone but internet-wide Flash is definitely a useful tool.

How can you have the internet without Flash? Well, I suppose you could water it down...

 

[lambo32490]

simple solution/ additional apps

Everyone, theres a simple solution if the iphone isnt exactly what you want...just dont buy it....let apple know that you are unhappy and ultimately they will come through. Hopefully the iphone will be released with flash and if its not i wont be in a hurry to buy one. Until the iphone has exactly what I want on it...there is no reason to buy it...i wont let it burn a hole in my pocket because im sure that in a few months after the initial release apple will release ones with 16 and 32 gb of memory for the same price and so on...its what they always do...until they appeal to everyone.

For everyone complaining about the potential lack of flash and a IM/ ichat program (like myself), I'm not a weather man, but I strongly belive that apple will release a version of each in the near future. (if flash isnt already in the iphone but i think it is....Jobs never denied it and you know how he beats around the bush) Take the PSP for example....those who own one know that sony offers frequent wireless software updates and has even added a entire internet browser....after the initial release....so, if sony can release a browser im sure that apple can release a version of ichat...and as far as billing goes (because people have been saying that ATT is controlling apple in this situation) i disagree. as of now, the texting works just like IMing...you pay per message...bottom line...so if you are using ATT's network and not wifi, you pay per message...simple

Thanks,

Ross

 

[retiarius]

This is so not Steve

Both products essentially involve the OEM paying a per-unit royalty to Adobe in exchange for access to standards, source code, reference implementations, trademark, and patent licenses. Then the OEM is free to customize the Flash player to work with whatever hardware and browser technology their device is set to employ.

With Mr. Jobs, the ideal agreement (for Apple) should read:

Both products essentially involve the parasitic interloper (er Apple OEM)
paying a per-unit royalty to Apple Inc. in exchange for access to the
iPhone standard, interface with the Apple iPhone reference implementation,
Apple iPhone trademark, Apple Inc. patent licenses, and the
well-to-do Apple customer base, soon to number in the billions.
Then the newly vetted iPhone system guest is free to
customize such non-Apple effluvia (er software) to work with the
Apple gold standard technology their software has a privilege
(but not a right) to employ.

In other words, for the honor of appearing on immeasurably valuable
limited 480x360 pixel screenspace, Adobe pays Apple, not the other
way around!

 

[Black Belt]

From Fan to Pan

Here here!

 

[lilnyc]

WolfgangK -

((Standing Ovation)) And I love the link to the Flash site you provided.

Like Windows Mobile, if they simply named it Safari Mobile, then touted its impressive features, expectations may not have been so high.

I am just holding onto my 8525 to perform functions that the iPhone cannot until the iPhone is up-to-speed.

 

[coffey7]

We are not supposed to care just shell out your $500-$600 and stay quiet. Say good bye to Youtube.

 

[jamesnajera]

@coffey7

Actually Youtube WILL WORK. Apple has struck an agreement with Youtube to convert there videos from flv to h264, so that Youtube will be compatible with Apple TV and iPhone. Youtube has already started converting videos.

James

 

[LoganT]

@coffey7

Actually Youtube WILL WORK. Apple has struck an agreement with Youtube to convert there videos from flv to h264, so that Youtube will be compatible with Apple TV and iPhone. Youtube has already started converting videos.

James

There has been no mention of YouTube for the iPhone. Just the AppleTV.

 

[jamesnajera]

h264 will work for the iphone. So youtube will work for the iphone.

 

[LoganT]

h264 will work for the iphone. So youtube will work for the iphone.

That's if Apple makes a YouTube app for the iPhone. Going to Youtube on your phone is going to be in Flash.

 

[Counter]

That's if Apple makes a YouTube app for the iPhone. Going to Youtube on your phone is going to be in Flash.

Exactly. If YouTube actually does convert it's entire catalog to .h264 I think Apple will for sure create an app for the iPhone though. They're having to create one for AppleTV and they have a bunch of the sites functionality also built in like ratings and whatnot.

But I'll believe this conversion of YouTube's entire catalog of videos when I see it. I can't imagine it being any less than the biggest video conversion job of all time. And even that statement does it no justice. Eeeeeenormous. And there's a huge percentage of videos that wont benefit from the conversion. Unless .h264 scales up nicer than flv, probably does but this is a non-issue on the iPhone anyway. Many people upload .flv's at the right size to YouTube so they don't have to be touched again. And any videos at all benefiting from the conversion quality wise would have to mean YouTube saved the original files uploaded by users....mov, divx etc. Maybe they did.

God knows. Ideally I'd much rather see the YouTube videos within the site. But given the screen size of the iPhone maybe an app would be much better, especially navigation wise.

 

[LoganT]

Then again, there are more flash sites than Youtube.

 

[jamesnajera]

Well, here is the youtube site for the iphone:

http://m.youtube.com/

(you might have to hit continue)

The thing that pisses me off is that with this phone we are suppose to not have to access special websites, just regular webistes like from our computer.

 

[supernoob]

Sorry to say, you are wrong. Browsers support flash. Flash is a product offered by adobe that browser's embed. Flash is not the internet. True, they are taking away elements key websites use. What that commercial is saying though is that the phone is built to view REAL WEBPAGES, not MOBILE VERSIONS. The addition of Flash is just a browser advantage. So the iPhone has a crappy browser? Maybe. But at least it can view REAL WEBPAGES. Dont believe me? check out http://mobile.macrumors.com ...thats what other phones see.

Sorry to say, you might be wrong- while it's nice that you've taken the time to define a "real webpage" from a "mobile webpage", the fact that MANY popular websites require flash, and ALL mac and windows browsers support the flash plugin makes flash a standard of the internet in the eyes of the majority.

So defining what a "real website" is, is lost because practically nobody cares. The ads say "this isn't a watered down internet" and "this isn't a kinda-sorta-looks like the internet internet", which is misleading because it leads the common user to believe that this phone will have full access to every webpage in the same exact same way the user's home computer will. So imagine yourself as a common user, and you see that ad, you buy an iphone for $600 and then $60/month on top of that, the first thing you do is visit your favorite website for example homestarrunner.com- and it doesn't work. Your first thought is probably gonna be, apple screwed me.