Flash is not just for stupid animated ads and menus..its a software development platform...one which, unlike the "Sweet!" 'iPhone SDK' supports:
1. Microphone input
2. Webcam input
3. Persistent local storage
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
No Flash Support on the iPhone
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Flash is not just for stupid animated ads and menus..its a software development platform...one which, unlike the "Sweet!" 'iPhone SDK' supports:
1. Microphone input
2. Webcam input
3. Persistent local storage
It's not that people want to go to flash websites. Most people don't like them. It's just that sometimes the site you really like is in Flash. I mean, wouldn't it be awesome to go to Google Video and watch 1 hour long documentary's from the BBC on your iPhone?
Flash is not just for stupid animated ads and menus..its a software development platform...one which, unlike the "Sweet!" 'iPhone SDK' supports:
1. Microphone input
2. Webcam input
3. Persistent local storage
It's crazy that posts need to be made explaining what Flash is. It's ENORMOUS people. The iPhone doesn't have the full internet without it. Flash remoting has been around forever (and has now been taken to another level with Flex) and allows for a pixel perfect Flash front end with any GUI/interactivity/effects/media you want all displaying exactly the same on all OS's and all browsers coupled with common database backends such as MySQL. Complete freedom and complete power to the developer.
I'd say two thirds of big brand sites (eg. Nike) use Flash extensively if not for the entire site. Nike has their entire online store in Flash.
well, maybe SJ meant flash, like compact flash.
or he maybe he was referring to flash, like LED/xenon - camera flash.
but then he could also mean fleshlight! apple is known for being innovative after all.
well, maybe SJ meant flash, like compact flash.
or he maybe he was referring to flash, like LED/xenon - camera flash.
I think he might have meant flash lights.
Not to be confused with Flash Lite.
From the very first moment Apple announced the Iphone I realised that an ichat VOIP client would cut out call charges and would not come to pass.
Firstly, a company like AT&T has a commercial right to charge for the call services and also to protect the massive investments it's made in the cellular network.
If there was a cellular network created exclusively for TCP/IP transport , (and in time it's certainly inevitable) then they would probably charge flat rate like landline ISP's and permit such clients.
However, that's not the case right now so the real question is
Acting on AT&T's behalf, why can't Apple simply block audio from the mic from being routed to a third party application on the iPhone ?
They could then permit Flash apps yes??
Firstly, a company like AT&T has a commercial right to charge for the call services and also to protect the massive investments it's made in the cellular network.
If there was a cellular network created exclusively for TCP/IP transport , (and in time it's certainly inevitable) then they would probably charge flat rate like landline ISP's and permit such clients.
However, that's not the case right now so the real question is
Acting on AT&T's behalf, why can't Apple simply block audio from the mic from being routed to a third party application on the iPhone ?
They could then permit Flash apps yes??
Are you people really this dense?
WHY...DO...YOU...THINK...THIS...IS...ATT...AT...WORK...HERE?
ATT just sold another phone that can do VoIP as I typed that. The limitations on the iPhone are ALL APPLE'S DOING.
Why is this SO incredible for some of you people to grasp?!?! ATT *doesn't care*...they have flat rate plans and rollover people; their business plan doesn't rely on overages...they sell many phones that can run skype or whatever...
Its Apple. I know, I know, its hard...but its true. And its even worse than you guys know (yet).
WHY...DO...YOU...THINK...THIS...IS...ATT...AT...WORK...HERE?
ATT just sold another phone that can do VoIP as I typed that. The limitations on the iPhone are ALL APPLE'S DOING.
Why is this SO incredible for some of you people to grasp?!?! ATT *doesn't care*...they have flat rate plans and rollover people; their business plan doesn't rely on overages...they sell many phones that can run skype or whatever...
Its Apple. I know, I know, its hard...but its true. And its even worse than you guys know (yet).
That's ridiculous - I don't know about carriers in the USA but in Europe you pay by the minute for your calls -
So assuming your right and carriers in the USA don't charge for calls then WHY the crap would Apple care if you could run a VOIP ichat type client if AT&T didn't care either ?
Give me ONE good reason why APPLE don't want people to make VOIP calls - Just ONE???
this is horrible! and for the record, WINDOWS MOBILE DOES LOAD FLASH!!!!! i have the plug in! heres proof!
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/downloads/player.html
apple is really breaking my heart today. man, i'm seriously thinking of not wasting $600 on this phone now. this is nuts! a $99 Q has more features... come on steve! your killin' me here ...
"ranting" i know, but really, come on apple
Wow! Thanks for that link!! So now I can do more with my current phone. I dunno. I feel like many of you who are disappointed, buuut kinda still want one? And we thought The Soprannos ending was all the rage, lol.
Its sooo much more complicated than you could even begin to imagine.
Apple doesn't want 3rd parties to be able to "touch" the phone...because, well, they don't trust them...on this platform.
You ever wonder why there aren't a ton of iPod games?
Sigh.
Not only is it a fact...god I wish i could just blurt **** out...but I can't.
Not only is it a fact, but "Web 2.0" apps don't have a bunch of "special" tags you can use to integrate them with the phone, either.
Just let it go. Its a cool flash iPod with a pretty screen, a great ui, but its an iPod first.
Jus think about the iPod "developer landscape" Same basic idea.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/like-the...vealed-its-actually-got-some-juice-261388.php
16gb, TV TUNER, wifi, GPS, FLASH, 3 megapixel Camera, Front camera for video... oh, and umm, for $450. syncing you say? ever hear of MissingSync? it syncs with the mac for everything from bookmarks, pics, music and all. so thats still not a good reason to support why its a $600 phone.
after knowing all of this, if the iphone would just include flash, java, and 3rd party apps, they would have another buyer, because i love apple that much and am brainwashed. but if they dont, apple is committing robbery!
MissingSync misplaces data into the wrong fields. It will place my friend's name in a company contact. It confused the heck out of me. It also places work numbers in work 2 and other quirky things like that. This is the #1 reason I was looking forward to the iPhone --- same system sync w/out a workaround app.
steve mentioned in his keynote that developers can now make apps for the phone. be assured there will be a 3rd party flash extension a few months after release.
aussie_geek
aussie_geek
It's not ridiculous. My AT&T/Cingular Blackberry has AIM, MSN, ICQ, GoogleTalk, Yahoo Chat, Blackberry Messenger, Press To Talk and Skype. None of these carry a per minute charge.
Given that every java, Symbian, Palm and Windows based phone has the capability to run IM chat programs, why would AT&T or any other carrier care about the iPhone having the same capability.
If Apple really don't care what apps run on the phone, why haven't they opened it up for third party developers?
He said they can make 'web apps' for the phone. You can't create a flash plugin using AJAX.steve mentioned in his keynote that developers can now make apps for the phone. be assured there will be a 3rd party flash extension a few months after release.
aussie_geek
Flash support never even occurred to me. In fact, I assumed it would not be supported without even thinking about it.
Ever monitor what some really gooey flash does to CPU usage? No surprise that a mini OSX would not even bother supporting it.
Flash is worthless and is really ancient at this point. Anyone with enough CSS and Java talent left Flash in the dust a long time ago.
No matter what anyone on here says, you don't need flash...its a 1990's windows thing.
Ever monitor what some really gooey flash does to CPU usage? No surprise that a mini OSX would not even bother supporting it.
Flash is worthless and is really ancient at this point. Anyone with enough CSS and Java talent left Flash in the dust a long time ago.
No matter what anyone on here says, you don't need flash...its a 1990's windows thing.
Yeah, see, I think you hit the nail on the head right there. Ultimately, it's an iPod with telecommunication functionality, but it's primarily an iPod. I can see Apple not wanting to implement Flash for a myriad of reasons - their whole love/hate relationship with Adobe being only part of it (and it is love/hate - the two companies rely on one another because they have to - they are the defacto standards in the design world - Apple hardware with Adobe software, but there is a ton of bad blood going back decades between the two companies and employees). As far as AT&T being responsible for the limitations - I don't work in telecomm, so I won't go as far as RnSK in defending AT&T's tactics (especially since we aren't even totally talking about AT&T AT&T right now - we're talking about the mobile arm of SBC, which is now branded as AT&T, which is a little different than the industrial arm of AT&T that has been largely responsible for every major telecommunications innovation in the last bajillion years...all the ownership changes and branding changes make it really hard to separate, especially since all the companies are essentially under one big umbrella, but the mobile phone company is not the same as the engineering arm) -- but I don't think the lack of flash support has anything to do with AT&T the cellular companies fears of a VOIP app on the phone. It's not like they couldn't support flash elements for web pages/video and disable network VOIP at the same time. My guess would be Apple doesn't want to pay the money that would be required to get a Flash OEM license - they would rather have companies like Google (YouTube) start using h.264 because then they still live in a fantasy world where QuickTime can become the standard for web video/digital video. They are already getting YouTube to switch to h.264 for AppleTV, if they can try to make it the new YouTube standard (which as someone else noted - even if that happens, legacy flash support won't disappear and flash video on other services is NOT going anywhere - flash video was the biggest internet innovation in years...and Apple trying to change the standard won't turn the clock back), then why pay the money per device to license an Adobe SDK?
The problem is that in marketing this phone as "full internet" and basically a device that will double as a miniPC as well as a cell phone, and charging $600 plus 2-year contract, consumers are going to balk at limitations that make those promises nothing more than PR spin. A big reason so many people have been excited about iPhone is because of how frustrating mobile web devices have been up until now -- you can do a lot - but you are also really limited. If Apple's "answer" is to continue those limitations by taking away a core part of web standards functionality (and that would be flash support), well, people are going to be pissed off.
Personally, I think the problem has always been that this phone has always had a decidedly consumer focus, yet it has been sold (though not entirely) and interpreted (that's been the real problem - the media interpretation) as a prosumer device that can be easily integrated into business environments. Regular consumers might not care about any of the limitations when it comes to how well it can display flash, if it supports java for 3rd party apps, etc. -- of course, regular consumers are also going to be reticent to spend $600 on a phone, while also spending close to $100 a month for the data/voice plan - and being locked into a two year contract (seeing as most regular consumers only do the contract to get the phone for free or at a huge discount). Prosumers, the people who don't balk as much at $600, and who are already paying that much for a phone/data plan - will balk at not having the promised set of features.
I don't know...ultimately, this may not matter for this phone's actual desired audience, people who will be ecstatic to have an iPod and phone in one, but who won't care so much about serious internet access -- for the slew of professionals (and it won't be just design professionals who will be put off by lack of flash support) who were looking for this to be the next mobile innovation, a la RIM -- not having flash support is going to be a big disappointment. I have and will continue to view this as a phone similar to the SideKick 2, in terms of scope and aimed user base. This is not the next Blackberry or even the next Razr (and I mean that in terms of mass-scale adoption, not feature set).
You can argue that - and from a design point of view, I won't completely disagree (I do cringe at some high level sites that are designed purely in Flash) - but flash is not an archaic standard - it continues to evolve and with each innovation, it's uses become more and more intertwined with the rest of the net. Holding the belief that flash is slow, sucks up CPU and GPU power and is unnecessary is really the more 1990s windows thing - at least in my humble opinion. Just because Java hasn't evolved to the point where it can exist without taking up a jillion resources (which is what I call true bloathware) doesn't mean Flash hasn't gone above and beyond some of its earlier deficits. As an application it is so much more than just animated menus and roll-over effects...
Look...
...there is a lot that can be accomplished with the limitations (and they ARE limitations) of this..."Sweet" (i still cannot believe that slide said that) developer "solution".
There really is.
The problem is, almost all of the things that can be accomplished really have nothing to do with the market the product is targeted for (music phone/so-called "fashion phone").
And yes, you can even do "remote ssh access" via the technologies available. You can make all *kinds* of 'vertical applications'...the problem is, none of this is what the target market...wants.
Worse...you can make much MUCH better versions of these same apps with a (ahem) proper SDK
...there is a lot that can be accomplished with the limitations (and they ARE limitations) of this..."Sweet" (i still cannot believe that slide said that) developer "solution".
There really is.
The problem is, almost all of the things that can be accomplished really have nothing to do with the market the product is targeted for (music phone/so-called "fashion phone").
And yes, you can even do "remote ssh access" via the technologies available. You can make all *kinds* of 'vertical applications'...the problem is, none of this is what the target market...wants.
Worse...you can make much MUCH better versions of these same apps with a (ahem) proper SDK
It's been reported elsewhere now too and confirmed by at least one individual in this thread.
I don't post claims like this lightly.
arn
Hi all,
IMO-web video content will be available on the iPhone, but we must all have patience, or not.
But in the mean time, if anyone want to see JavaScript working on the iPhone, take a look at the Keynote. You can see the Hot News Headlines ticker on apple.com working really nice on the iPhone during the Keynote presentation. This occurred when Scott Forestall V.P. of iPhone software does his demonstration near the end of the Keynote, from about 1:17 to 1:17:50.
Sorry, 1st time I see something moving on the iPhone Safari browser since it gave light. lol
IMO-web video content will be available on the iPhone, but we must all have patience, or not.
But in the mean time, if anyone want to see JavaScript working on the iPhone, take a look at the Keynote. You can see the Hot News Headlines ticker on apple.com working really nice on the iPhone during the Keynote presentation. This occurred when Scott Forestall V.P. of iPhone software does his demonstration near the end of the Keynote, from about 1:17 to 1:17:50.
Sorry, 1st time I see something moving on the iPhone Safari browser since it gave light. lol