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No High-End Video Card for the next Mac Pro

Topper

Topper

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 17, 2007
1,186
0
I don’t think there is a high-end video card available for the next Mac Pro.
Okay, they are available but will Apple offer them?

I think there are 4 high-end consumer video cards on the market today; GeForce 8800 GTS 640mb, GeForce 8800 GTX, GeForce 8800 Ultra, and Radeon HD2900 XT.

I think the 8800 GTX and 8800 Ultra can be elminated just on size alone...10.5 inches long.
All the above cards are basically already old technology.
They all run hot, too hot, and they all consume a lot of power.
Does Apple really want those cards in their computer?
I do but does Apple?

There are two new sets of video cards by Nvidia and ATI; GeForce 8800 GT (G92) and Radeon HD2950 XT and Pro (RV670)

The Radeon HD2950 XT has fairly impressive numbers if the rumors are true.
But it isn’t considered a high-end card. It will probably make it’s debut at the end of the month.

Nvidia will launch it’s 8800 GT (G92) card this month. It’s specs are not as good as the 8800 GTS.
The 8800 GT is a mid-range card.

The smaller die of the HD2950 and 8800 GT should make for cooler, less noisy, and lower power
consumption than the 8800 series and HD2900 XT cards.

The next generation of high-end video cards are not coming out until next year.

I would like an 8800 series card or the HD2900 XT available as a bto option of the next Mac Pro
but I don’t think it will happen. Hope I’m wrong.

If the specifications of the HD2950 XT are true, it will be a pretty good card.
But it will be a disappointment for those expecting an 8800 or HD2900 XT.

I made the following table.
The numbers of the HD2950 and 8800 GT are pure speculation.
If any of the stats are wrong I am sure someone will let me know.
I filled in the HD2950 and 8800 GT cards in yellow to show that they are the new cards that
have not come out as yet.

VC.jpg
 
Somehow you think the Mac Pro is a gaming machine, when it in reality is a workstation.

You might want to be looking at the FireGL and Quadro products, as high-end replacement.

The standard card is surely going to be some $50 - $99 card, like the Radeon HD 2600 or Geforce 8600.
 
Topper,

From what I read (which is pure speculation so far) is that the upcoming G92 from nVidia (8800GT) will have performance that is somewhere between the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX. And, of course, the lower wattage due to the die shrink and a single-slot solution.

Digitimes is reporting this morning that nVidia is bumping up the release of the 8800GT to October 29th, so while it could make the Mac Pro revision in time, we all know that Apple's core competency is NOT choosing good graphics cards.

Link

Pressure said:
Somehow you think the Mac Pro is a gaming machine, when it in reality is a workstation.

You might want to be looking at the FireGL and Quadro products, as high-end replacement.

The standard card is surely going to be some $50 - $99 card, like the Radeon HD 2600 or Geforce 8600.
Click to expand...

Don't even go there Pressure.
 
Pressure said:
Somehow you think the Mac Pro is a gaming machine, when it in reality is a workstation.

You might want to be looking at the FireGL and Quadro products, as high-end replacement.

The standard card is surely going to be some $50 - $99 card, like the Radeon HD 2600 or Geforce 8600.
Click to expand...

Whether or not someone sees it is a gaming machine is irrelevant. When the Mac Pro was released it came with the X1900XT as an option, a decent card for its time, also what one might consider a gaming card. With that in mind it is not out of the question to expect similar hardware in the next Mac Pro.

FireGL and Quadro cards offer no advantage if you aren't doing 3D modeling/rendering. I don't see how that is a replacement for someone seeking to gain UI advantages in pro apps.

Most of the consumer cards and the "workstation cards" run parallel, the only difference being the drivers.

Also, it is clear that one of these higher end cards won't be the base. Again, based on the brief history of the Mac Pro one can infer these things.

Low end (base card)
Higher end consumer
High end workstation (Fire, Quadro)
 
I'm expecting the worst for the high end option – maybe they'll offer the something like the iMacs 2600 for it.

Anyway don't you know that Steve is implanted with a wireless receiver – every time someones plays a game on a Mac it sends a bolt of pain through him :rolleyes:
 
Does anyone have a link to that chart where are the current cards are benchmarked against each other? It's quite simple – more of an overview. I saw it on one of the threads in the last few months.

Found it, came up first after a google :eek:

 
killmoms said:
...The HD2950 XT is an upgrade to the 2900. How is it not high-end? :confused:
Click to expand...
The biggest difference would be the 256-bit interface on the HD2950 Vs. the 512-bit one on the HD2900. It'll only be a big difference at high resolutions though.

The HD2950 is a well balanced card otherwise.
 
Pressure said:
Somehow you think the Mac Pro is a gaming machine, when it in reality is a workstation.
You might want to be looking at the FireGL and Quadro products, as high-end replacement.
The standard card is surely going to be some $50 - $99 card, like the Radeon HD 2600 or Geforce 8600.
Click to expand...

I should have said, "bto high-end consumer video cards." ...like the X1900 XT was supposed to be.
I'll bet most professionals who use the Mac Pro for work do not have the Quadro FX 4500 but are using the X1900 XT instead.
I haven't heard too many people in this forum using the FX 4500.

I never said the Mac Pro is a gaming machine.
However it is correct that I would like to run "one" game on it also.
I think you recall from my other posts that I do a lot more than just game.
 
killmoms said:
...The HD2950 XT is an upgrade to the 2900. How is it not high-end? :confused:
Click to expand...

The HD2950 XT is meant as a mid-range card to compete against the GeForce 8800 GT.
I've heard rumors of this card going crossfire, then you would have a card to brag about.

And what Eidorian said...
 
Wild-Bill said:
Topper,
From what I read (which is pure speculation so far) is that the upcoming G92 from nVidia (8800GT) will have performance that is somewhere between the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX.
Click to expand...

If the 8800GT had performance between the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX I'd be ultra happy to have it in a Mac Pro.
Unfortunately it's performance will be close to that of the 8800 GTS 320MB card.
But that's not bad considering it was originally meant as a go-between the 8600 GTS and the 8800 GTS 320MB card.
Now Nvidia is looking at it as a replacement of it's 8800 GTS 320MB card.
Nvidia is stopping 8800GTS 320MB production and keeping/updating their 8800GTS 640MB card.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3446&Itemid=34
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/05/nvidia-kills-8800gts-320mb
 
suneohair said:
Whether or not someone sees it is a gaming machine is irrelevant. When the Mac Pro was released it came with the X1900XT as an option, a decent card for its time, also what one might consider a gaming card. With that in mind it is not out of the question to expect similar hardware in the next Mac Pro.
quote]

Well some of us have PC gaming machines that are getting old.... Buying a new MP would give you the best of Both worlds.... But Apple has always been way behind the times in Graphics... no Idea why. Our systems are the Graphics kings and we are really using cards that the PC world laughs at.

Also how about the people who use Alias or Newtek 3D programs.... its not Gamers anymore that would benifit from having the fastest card.

I think we should feel a little miffed that Apple makes it so hard to upgrade & why are we lagging 2-3 years behind the rest of the industry -Graphics wise.

Also if Apple was so concenred about the gaming industry why can't I have a Mac that can play games like the PC. Apple goes through all the trouble to cort EA GAMES to the Mac and what we have hardware wise is just not up to par, even to play games (at Higher Rez and with all the Graphic Bells and whistles turned on)
Click to expand...
 
G92 Benchmark

The Inquirer says that, "The 8800GT with MeII-32, a QX6800 and 2G of DDR2-1000 ram all on a 780i board scores 14200 on 3DMark 05."

They also say that this is, "just about even with the 8800Ultra scores at this rez."

And..., "All we can say is life sucks if you recently bought a GTX."

I don't understand 3DMark benchmarks.
How can a G92 be even with a 8800Ultra?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/15/g92-scores-outed
 
So you'd buy totally outdated hardware at full price becuase its better than your even more outdated hardware? At some point you'll need to ask yourself if being brand loyal might be hurting your experience or not.

Dreadnought said:
Whatever it will be, it will be a BIG improvement over my PM G5 dual 1.8 with a 9600 pro with 64 MB...
Click to expand...
 
contoursvt said:
So you'd buy totally outdated hardware at full price becuase its better than your even more outdated hardware? At some point you'll need to ask yourself if being brand loyal might be hurting your experience or not.
Click to expand...

This is how I look at it: When macs were ppc, having a machine that I could both work and have fun with was not even in the picture when deciding to buy one.

Fact is, macs were for work or for grandma (mail and web only) with some nice user software thrown in.

Now that macs are intel based, the mythical "porting to ppc" barrier broke down. With bootcamp, the perfect machine is...so...close...yet so far away because of apple's lack of commitment to top end peripherals. This is what is so frustrating.

There are only two major players in the video card business. How hard can it be to write a drive capable of decent 2D rendering for both? Answer: Not at all. In fact, all they'd have to do is make OF bootable to a non-main slot and I can slap some crappy card in the off slot for osx and dual boot.

The only explanation is that Apple relishes the "grandma or graphic designer" stigma.
 
paul619LT said:
if you really want a gaming mac pro, then put your own card in there. problem solved.
Click to expand...

Uhh....., looks like someone hasn't been reading enough in here to understand what is going on.

If one were to "put their own card" in there, they would be relegated to the Windows world, which is completely out of the question for many, and defeats the point of having a BootCamp capable machine.

Additionally, if one were to follow your advice and needed to boot into Mac mode, they would need to physically swap cards. That is not feasible.

And for the record, no one, and I repeat NO ONE in this thread or forum has stated that they want a "gaming Mac Pro". We want a CURRENT machine with top of the line graphics hardware, so that when we decide we'd like to game and boot into windows for it, we're not doing it on 2 year old graphics that are priced 2.66 times higher than their actual market value (ex: x1900xt)

But thanks anyway for the misguided comment. :rolleyes:
 
Wild-Bill said:
Uhh....., looks like someone hasn't been reading enough in here to understand what is going on.

If one were to "put their own card" in there, they would be relegated to the Windows world, which is completely out of the question for many, and defeats the point of having a BootCamp capable machine.

Additionally, if one were to follow your advice and needed to boot into Mac mode, they would need to physically swap cards. That is not feasible.

And for the record, no one, and I repeat NO ONE in this thread or forum has stated that they want a "gaming Mac Pro". We want a CURRENT machine with top of the line graphics hardware, so that when we decide we'd like to game and boot into windows for it, we're not doing it on 2 year old graphics that are priced 2.66 times higher than their actual market value (ex: x1900xt)

But thanks anyway for the misguided comment. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

then don't buy a mac pro. get a mac mini for your os x needs, and build a real gaming machine, a PC running windows. if you are buying a mac pro for gaming, you're getting ripped off.
 
Read WildBills' post again.

paul619LT said:
then don't buy a mac pro. get a mac mini for your os x needs, and build a real gaming machine, a PC running windows. if you are buying a mac pro for gaming, you're getting ripped off.
Click to expand...

You are the only one who thinks of a Mac Pro for gaming. A Mac Pro is a workstation - for doing work. If you actually read his post, he comments that all we want is a machine which contains CURRENT technology. People buy a Mac Pro to work on, and now have the option to play the occasional game.
 
paul619LT said:
then don't buy a mac pro. get a mac mini for your os x needs, and build a real gaming machine, a PC running windows. if you are buying a mac pro for gaming, you're getting ripped off.
Click to expand...

Unacceptable. I need a workstation to do my work. For some of us it's not a "web browsing or gaming" situation. It's a "workstation and gaming" situation.

Compound that with the fact that I can afford 2500 for a workstation, but not 4-6kk for a workstation and a machine capable of gaming and you may see our predicament.

For us it's not a matter of "getting a mac mini" for our needs since we need more for our work. The choice apple has presented us with their lackluster hardware is:

Buy an Apple workstation and go without the ability to have fun when you want to or buy a windows/linux workstation and go without osx (which we very much enjoy as s development/design/whatever platform).

Since both of these weigh fairly heavily (osx v. having fun when we want to), the decision is a very difficult and thus frustrating one. Especially when there are two extremely easy fixes apple could provide us:

a) bring their peripheral hardware within throwing reach of current technology (instead of in the electronic stone age)
b) Allow us to boot OSX from a secondary expansion slot
 
krunk said:
Unacceptable. I need a workstation to do my work. For some of us it's not a "web browsing or gaming" situation. It's a "workstation and gaming" situation.

Compound that with the fact that I can afford 2500 for a workstation, but not 4-6kk for a workstation and a machine capable of gaming and you may see our predicament.

For us it's not a matter of "getting a mac mini" for our needs since we need more for our work. The choice apple has presented us with their lackluster hardware is:

Buy an Apple workstation and go without the ability to have fun when you want to or buy a windows/linux workstation and go without osx (which we very much enjoy as s development/design/whatever platform).

Since both of these weigh fairly heavily (osx v. having fun when we want to), the decision is a very difficult and thus frustrating one. Especially when there are two extremely easy fixes apple could provide us:

a) bring their peripheral hardware within throwing reach of current technology (instead of in the electronic stone age)
b) Allow us to boot OSX from a secondary expansion slot
Click to expand...
You've summed up how I feel as well.

Great post! :cool:
 
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