Here's what I want to know - If newer cards were available to work with upgraded MP's, would you be able to use the card in a current-generation MP?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
No High-End Video Card for the next Mac Pro
- Thread starter Topper
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You might need to get Leopard for it and wait for an update. (e.g. 10.5.1/10.5.2)
It'll work, you just won't have the drivers otherwise.
That's working, right?
You might need to get Leopard for it and wait for an update. (e.g. 10.5.1/10.5.2)
It'll work, you just won't have the drivers otherwise.
That's working, right?
Lol. Well, I'm definitely getting Leopard on Friday. So I guess we'll just see. I definitely wouldn't mind throwing in a better card.
You know, Apple could pull off something surprising and outfit the new Mac Pro with the new nVidia 8800 GT series. If that's the case, I don't know where that'll leave existing Mac Pro owners, as the card is PCI-E 2.0
I believe the PCI-E 2.0 spec delivers more power through the slot. If anything I'm sure someone could probably figure out a way to make it work though.
I believe the PCI-E 2.0 spec delivers more power through the slot. If anything I'm sure someone could probably figure out a way to make it work though.
That would not be a surprise to me.
I am guessing that either the 8800 GT or HD 38XX series card will be available.
You do know that these are mid-range not high-end video cards, right?
By the way, I know you are going to come back at me and tell me how well the 8800 GT did with FEAR, Quake,
and Prey.
It certainly appears that it is doing much better than expected.
As a matter of fact, nVidia is doing away with the 8800 GTX 320MB and they are upgrading the 8800 GTX 640MB to 112 stream processors (as compared to the 96 stream processors of the 8800 GT).
It might be an option but definitely not the base card. I strongly believe that the majority of Mac Pro buyers would have nothing to use all that power for.
PCI-Express 2.0 is backwards compatible. The card would just need power from elsewhere than the PCI-Express connector.
Topper said:
You must mean the Geforce 8800GTS 320MB. Both the new, shrinked (65nm) Geforce 8800GTS 640MB and the Geforce 8800GT have 112 Stream Processors.
That's me, not Wild-Bill.
Yes, I meant the GeForce 8800GTS 320MB and 8800GTS 640MB.
You are right about the 8800GT have 112 stream processors, I was reading about the old 8800 GTS series cards.
I wonder if the new 8800GTS 640MB will actually have a new shrinked 65nm fabrication.
I know there are reports that it will but if so, why wouldn't it then be a G92 rather than a G80?
How unlikely is it that Apple *may* have included more up-to-date drivers that could possibly handle other video cards for those who have a Mac Pro? Maybe this is a rhetorical question.....
Just to add some perspective from an Apple noob, I bought my first Mac - a Mac Pro - precisely because of its ability to dual-boot into either MacOS or Windows, and expected that I would be able to buy more "off the shelf" PC-type peripherals that would be able to work in either OS.
I have subsequently added two such "non-Apple" peripherals - a hard disk and additional memory - that have both worked just fine. What has me stuck is that I do like to play the occasional game, and I intentionally kept the low-end 7300 when I ordered the system (not the X1900) because I new about the new DirectX 10 in Vista that would require new video cards, and I figured it would be a few months before such cards would be available for the Mac Pro. ..tap tap tap... still waiting...
Don't get me wrong, overall I'm happy with my Mac Pro. Its quiet, and performs well outside of high-end gaming. With a few minor issues, it also supports Vista Ultimate x64, which I dual-boot along with MacOS (without Bootcamp, I'll note). But the lack of support for regular video card updates makes me question whether I'll buy another Mac in the future. I'm not in need of the latest/greatest card, but there basically hasn't been a new card offered since the day the Mac Pro was launched (and I ordered mine that day), which was far from my expectation when I bought the system. I knew I was going to have to pay more for an Apple video card than I could get for a PC card, but to not even have a reasonable current generation card to buy? Some may say my expecations are unreasonable; okay, I never bought an Apple before so maybe I should have known better. But once burned, twice shy.
I'm sure that eventually Apple will release an updated Mac Pro that has new BTO options for video cards. I've seen some posts that indicate they might use a new PCI standard that supports higher power cards. That makes me nervous that they won't provide cards that are backwards compatible to the PCI slots in the original Mac Pro, leaving us original owners with no options. I hope that doesn't happen, because if it does, I know my next computer won't be an Apple.
I have subsequently added two such "non-Apple" peripherals - a hard disk and additional memory - that have both worked just fine. What has me stuck is that I do like to play the occasional game, and I intentionally kept the low-end 7300 when I ordered the system (not the X1900) because I new about the new DirectX 10 in Vista that would require new video cards, and I figured it would be a few months before such cards would be available for the Mac Pro. ..tap tap tap... still waiting...
Don't get me wrong, overall I'm happy with my Mac Pro. Its quiet, and performs well outside of high-end gaming. With a few minor issues, it also supports Vista Ultimate x64, which I dual-boot along with MacOS (without Bootcamp, I'll note). But the lack of support for regular video card updates makes me question whether I'll buy another Mac in the future. I'm not in need of the latest/greatest card, but there basically hasn't been a new card offered since the day the Mac Pro was launched (and I ordered mine that day), which was far from my expectation when I bought the system. I knew I was going to have to pay more for an Apple video card than I could get for a PC card, but to not even have a reasonable current generation card to buy? Some may say my expecations are unreasonable; okay, I never bought an Apple before so maybe I should have known better. But once burned, twice shy.
I'm sure that eventually Apple will release an updated Mac Pro that has new BTO options for video cards. I've seen some posts that indicate they might use a new PCI standard that supports higher power cards. That makes me nervous that they won't provide cards that are backwards compatible to the PCI slots in the original Mac Pro, leaving us original owners with no options. I hope that doesn't happen, because if it does, I know my next computer won't be an Apple.
The cards will be compatible. They just might require an external power source in addition to the bus power on PCI-Express 1.0/1.1.cokersa said:
On PCI-Express 2.0 they'll be able to run off of bus power alone.
1) When you bought your system, on day one, the cost of the system compared to other offerings was more then competitive...it was a downright bargain.
2) If you don't care about OSX, then you can run any card you want that vista has drivers for. Just pop it in and go.
3) If you had gotten the x1900 XT, then you'd be able to run all the latest games very well. It would only be with the games that are coming out in the next 6mths that you'd start to push the limits of your card. . . and coincidentally new cards are probably on the horizon and will be here before that day comes.
Don't get me wrong, I've been waiting a while too. And Apple's pitiful video card support is very frustrating...but really only to those of us who like to run OSX.
My point is, the mac pro was an amazing deal even if you only intended to run windows on it. The hardware was incredibly priced.
If you respond that you would have gone with a pc for 1/2 as much, then your real complaint lies in Apple not offering a desktop...only laptops and workstations.
Thought I would add my thought.
As a computer repair tech and geek for windows/linux/mac boxes and a personal user of a Vista machine (love it) and a Mac (love that one too), I have seen my fair share of consumer issues when it comes to Mac's and their dated at best video capabilities. Now don't get me wrong, Apple has been able to offer the average consumer a unified hardware and software platform, of which has proven to be mutually advantageous to both the end user and the developer, something that those in the PC world hasn't seen since the day's of the one IBM. It is with the concept of the closed platform that has had a stranglehold on the hardware diversity that you see in Apple hardware, such as video card choices or processor choices. I had sold an iMac with a 20" screen to a Mother thinking that would be perfect for her son to game on and it would be a cinch to upgrade for bigger and better games. You can upgrade the memory or the hard drive, but unless you have had good luck at writing drivers for OSX-86, and know your way with a soldering iron- your SOL. You cannot simply "toss in" a video card from a PC to a Mac, and it doesn't have to do with if it is "PCI-E 2.0" or not, but rather the specified Apple BIOS on the card itself. I had a customer once who took the advice from someone online had given him, and bought a new card and put it in, but was surprised to find that his display was garbled. Apple isn't to friendly to internal hardware that isn't "Apple Cert." It would be beneficial to Apple to introduce a "Gaming" Mac, or at least keep up to date with Video card hardware.
My first post, so my apologies about the rambling, a tad bit nervous.
As a computer repair tech and geek for windows/linux/mac boxes and a personal user of a Vista machine (love it) and a Mac (love that one too), I have seen my fair share of consumer issues when it comes to Mac's and their dated at best video capabilities. Now don't get me wrong, Apple has been able to offer the average consumer a unified hardware and software platform, of which has proven to be mutually advantageous to both the end user and the developer, something that those in the PC world hasn't seen since the day's of the one IBM. It is with the concept of the closed platform that has had a stranglehold on the hardware diversity that you see in Apple hardware, such as video card choices or processor choices. I had sold an iMac with a 20" screen to a Mother thinking that would be perfect for her son to game on and it would be a cinch to upgrade for bigger and better games. You can upgrade the memory or the hard drive, but unless you have had good luck at writing drivers for OSX-86, and know your way with a soldering iron- your SOL. You cannot simply "toss in" a video card from a PC to a Mac, and it doesn't have to do with if it is "PCI-E 2.0" or not, but rather the specified Apple BIOS on the card itself. I had a customer once who took the advice from someone online had given him, and bought a new card and put it in, but was surprised to find that his display was garbled. Apple isn't to friendly to internal hardware that isn't "Apple Cert." It would be beneficial to Apple to introduce a "Gaming" Mac, or at least keep up to date with Video card hardware.
My first post, so my apologies about the rambling, a tad bit nervous.
Thanks for the post:
1) I agree
2) I do care about OSX - I wouldn't have purchased the Mac Pro if I had only wanted to run Windows.
3) I, and many others, hope you are correct that "new cards are probably on the horizon". That said, I've been watching posts in this forum for at least six months speculating that new video cards should be coming "soon."
Regarding the desktop vs workstation discussion, it doesn't really matter to me how you classify it. If Apple did sell a "desktop" (something between the iMac and the Mac Pro), I'd still be bothered if it didn't have a new video card option.
I understand Apple's business model, and why you have to get a video card with their BIOS on it (to be supported anyway, I know their are folks who are willing to custom flash cards to get them to work; I have neither the expertise or interest to do that). I don't even have a problem paying extra for it (versus an "equivalent" card on a PC). I just want to be able to get one. I don't think its too much to ask for Apple to offer an updated video card once every six months or so.
Like I said, overall I'm happy with my Mac Pro - I'm just disappointed in Apple's commitment (or lack thereof) to keep it competitive from a video card perspective.
Hey I'm with you. I'm a relatively new OSX user myself...last couple of years. At first I only go the laptops and this last round I got a Powermac. Great machine.
I'll try to impart what I've learned about buying Apple. Bear in mind, I learned this lesson the hard way and am also currently very frustrated.
==Me Wisdom==
Apple doesn't incrementally update. But, new apple hardware (after an update) is top notch. Unlike in the PC world, the buyer is beholden to Apple's update cycle and so we must adapt our buying habits according to them.
If you are not a "must have the latest 700 dollar video card released yesterday type" but the "Buy the best, ride it till it shows its age then upgrade" type then Apple is a perfect fit if you sync your buying habits.
Sounds like we're both in this camp. And it sounds like we both made the initial mistake. I did not buy the Mac Pro when it came out, so I'm 2 generations behind....and it hurts. You didn't buy the best when it came out (hoping for an incremental upgrade) and thus are also behind.
It's not as bleak as it sounds (buying every new hardware update) since Apple machines retain their value after market much more then PC's. So this is what you have to do:
a) Buy the best
b) Wait for update
c) Sale your old machine for 2/3's what you are going to pay for the new
d) Buy a new machine (usually end up paying about 600 or so for it after selling old).
In this way, you end up always having the newest and best and for about the same cost it would take to incrementally upgrade your PC. Sure, they might come out with "Uber card of pwnage" right after you buy....for 700 dollars. But unless your one of those compulsive upgraders, this is no different then the PC world. What you can count on is always having hardware that is the best or only a small notch behind the current. . . right where I usually stay.
If I had known this a year and 1/2 ago, I'd have sold my Powermac, bought a new Mac Pro with x1900 XT, and just now be thinking "hmmm, it might be nice to get a new card" when *pop* new Mac Pros.
*edit* My only point in this advice is if you really do value OSX....just hang tight, get in sync with the cycle (remember buying a new Mac Pro will cost you just as much as buying one of the new cards if you sell your old), and enjoy.
*edit 2* I still reserve the right to complain about Mac Pro video card options.
Beat you to the punch on that one. Look at post #42
I guess I've got to start hoping Apple gives us an 8800GT option
Incidentally, that rumour tabloid is contradicting itself, stating that the RV670 is faster than the G92 in another post.
Regardless, I would take anything Fruitzilla writes with a grain of salt as always, they are just rumours so far.
To everyone that keeps repeating that the Mac Pro is a workstation and not a gaming box and this somehow justifies the lack of video cards available, then let me say that the box is no longer competetive at least with regards to 3D modeling. The Quadro FX4500 is the highest available from Apple but its getting long in the tooth. The FX4600, 5500 and 5600 are available on the PC side. I'm sure there are significant performance increases when heavy scenes are being manipulated. You can also get these with SDI outputs on the PC side..not sure if you can order them with SDI from Apple.
Why should a workstation which has the ability to be so upgradable, be crippled by a lack of available hardware to upgrade it? Heck offer current stuff and charge 50% more in standard Apple fashion but even thats not being done. The 7300GT and X1900 cards are not "workstation" cards by the way. Even the cheaper HP workstations come with some form of quadro even if its a lowly FX540 or something. Its at least a card listed as being a workstation card.
Why should a workstation which has the ability to be so upgradable, be crippled by a lack of available hardware to upgrade it? Heck offer current stuff and charge 50% more in standard Apple fashion but even thats not being done. The 7300GT and X1900 cards are not "workstation" cards by the way. Even the cheaper HP workstations come with some form of quadro even if its a lowly FX540 or something. Its at least a card listed as being a workstation card.
The issue is that there are no newer video cards available for the Mac Pro right? The answer to that is that the Mac Pro doesnt need anything newer because its a workstation right? These are newer, stronger and faster workstation cards that have come out since then.
...so if its a workstation, apple should be striving to offer the new workstation cards if not standard cards. Heck offer ANY card.
How is this confusing the issue? Is everyone supposed have their head burried in the sand?
...so if its a workstation, apple should be striving to offer the new workstation cards if not standard cards. Heck offer ANY card.
How is this confusing the issue? Is everyone supposed have their head burried in the sand?
I see you are very riled. However, a response of "Don't confuse the issue with the facts." is a classic tongue in cheek response when someone has made a very good point. It indicates that opponents to that persons view do not want to consider the facts, but have made up their mind already.
LOL well this topic does drive me a little crazy because I believe a machine of this caliber deserves more. PS. I was wondering about that statement and why it didnt make sense. I was like "confuse the issue with the facts" huh.. wait how can things be confused when there are facts. Now i get it
Funny. Anyway I think I need to lay off the coffee. Gets me a little hyper.
Funny. Anyway I think I need to lay off the coffee. Gets me a little hyper.
I see you are very riled. However, a response of "Don't confuse the issue with the facts." is a classic tongue in cheek response when someone has made a very good point. It indicates that opponents to that persons view do not want to consider the facts, but have made up their mind already.
Considering how poorly the HD2900 XT does against the 8800GTS, 8800GTX, and 8800Ultra, my money says the G92 beats up on the RV670.
And Murphy's Law tells me that Apple will make the RV670 the bto video card of the next Mac Pro.
I expect Apple will upgrade the workstation card to a newer Quadro or FireGL card.