No M4 Ultra Chip? Apple Confirms the M4 Max Chip Lacks UltraFusion

[sherwinzadeh]

UltraFusion doesn't scale the performance of multiple processors well. My guess is that M3 Ultra is the last chip with UltraFusion and they're working on something completely new that wouldn't be ready in time for M4 Ultra.

 

[switz]

Go to Apple's Mac Studio site and do a compare with the new Ultra Studio and the M4 Max like I have in my new 16" Mac Book Pro with 128GB of memory and 8TB SSD.

When you see where the numbers are double in the Ultra what they in the M4 Max, I think for marketing purposes Apple choose "M3 Ultra" so they have "M4 Ultra" for the Mac Tower later. The number that will verify this thought will be the single core speed of the M3 Ultra vs the single core speed of the M4 Max.

In both the M1 family and the M2 family of four trim lines, the single core speed for each of the four trim lines were nearly identical. So we will have to see if the M3 Ultra has a single core speed like the M3 family or M4 family.

 

[Ethosik]

Go to Apple's Mac Studio site and do a compare with the new Ultra Studio and the M4 Max like I have in my new 16" Mac Book Pro with 128GB of memory and 8TB SSD.

When you see where the numbers are double in the Ultra what they in the M4 Max, I think for marketing purposes Apple choose "M3 Ultra" so they have "M4 Ultra" for the Mac Tower later. The number that will verify this thought will be the single core speed of the M3 Ultra vs the single core speed of the M4 Max.

In both the M1 family and the M2 family of four trim lines, the single core speed for each of the four trim lines were nearly identical. So we will have to see if the M3 Ultra has a single core speed like the M3 family or M4 family.

Yeah it’s definitely not M3 since it includes Thunderbolt 5. M3 Max did not have this.

 

[azchandler]

Can't wait for M4 Ultra in 2 years!

 

[Corefile]

Wow. I just can't believe Apple would do this to us. What does it mean?

 

[ttyRazor]

The interesting thing is that they said the same thing about the M3 chip last year at WWDC, that it had no interconnects to create an M3 Ultra and that's why there will be no Mac Studio released in 2024, lack of M3 Ultra was the explanation.

Now, wonder of wonders, there is an M3 Ultra available after all for the Mac Studio but no M4 Ultra, due to the lack of interconnects?

They must have changed something from the M3 Max at least to add Thunderbolt 5, and I wouldn’t be surprised that they added interconnect parts that weren’t originally in the Max either. saying the M4 Max doesn’t have them doesn’t necessarily mean they couldn’t, but they’ve also been more upfront that Ultras could skip a generation. Hopefully that means that future Studios could see the latest Max chip sooner than whenever the next Ultra is ready.

 

[0049190]

This makes the lineup look a bit silly. I realise that not everyone needs an Ultra, but the ones who do will want the latest performance benefits. Maybe Apple is doing this intentionally to keep people on their toes as the yearly cycle does become a bit boring, and if you don't give people something to complain about or look forward to, it gets a bit predictable.

Problem is the desktop Pro Macs tend to only get updated every 2 or 3 years not yearly as the laptops do, so we do need the latest chips in each update.

 

[ttyRazor]

Yeah it’s definitely not M3 since it includes Thunderbolt 5. M3 Max did not have this.

They’ve very likely made some changes from the M3 Max, but them still calling it an M3 probably means it has the same compute and GPU cores as the M3, probably the same N3B process node too.

 

[H. Flower]

The pro division of this company never ceases to amaze 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

[CWallace]

While channel sales outlets say the Mac Pro outsells the Mac Studio roughly 2 to 1 (making up 3% of all Mac sales), it may be that the "upgrade" rate from an M2 to M3 would be low enough it is not worth the effort so perhaps the Mac Pro will remain on M2 until M5 is available.

 

[BNBMS]

I guess it's a lie cause M3 Max doesn't really have Ultra Fusion connection with tear-down reviews and now Apple claims it does.

 

[CWallace]

It is also possible that TSMC yields on M4 Max (or overall wafer availability) preclude offering an M4 Ultra at this time.

M3 wafer yields should be fairly higher now than at launch in late 2023 and with less Apple product being produced on that process, it may be the more available platform right now.

 

[Ethosik]

I guess it's a lie cause M3 Max doesn't really have Ultra Fusion connection with tear-down reviews and now Apple claims it does.

It’s more of an M3.5 since M3 Max doesn’t have Thunderbolt 5 either. So they could have added ultra fusion when they added TB5.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Not worth it. Move onto M5.

 

[Plutonius]

I predict that we now have to wait until the m5 before we get a new studio and pro.

 

[gagaliya]

still catching up on all the updates, but this seems super confusing and makes absolutely no sense. Why the **** would apple release a M4 max studio while the ultra version is M3?!?!? On what planet does this make any sense?

 

[CWallace]

still catching up on all the updates, but this seems super confusing and makes absolutely no sense. Why the **** would apple release a M4 max studio while the ultra version is M3?!?!? On what planet does this make any sense?

The planet where TSMC does not have the wafer capacity to fab an M4 Ultra at the yields and costs Apple requires?

Most M3 products have been discontinued by Apple so there should be plenty of wafer capacity and yield rates to fab enhanced M3 Max to combine them into Ultra via UltraFusion.

 

[shinseiromeo]

I predict that we now have to wait until the m5 before we get a new studio and pro.

Yeah…. I’ve been waiting a year for a new studio. I did plan to get the top model, such as a $4000 ultra, to last me the next 5-7 years. Now I may still get the standard m4 max though the 512gb hard drive is also insulting.

 

[Bearygoodfries1]

I wanted the Mac Mini with the max chip…

 

[svish]

Think all the chips in the M4 family have been released. Definitely expecting to see an Ultra version sometime in the next 1 to 2 years.

 

[BNBMS]

It’s more of an M3.5 since M3 Max doesn’t have Thunderbolt 5 either. So they could have added ultra fusion when they added TB5.

Yes, it makes sesnse. M3 series dont even support TB5.

 

[thanxal]

1997 Steve would have been so proud of this confusion

Try advising someone on which iPad and Apple Pencil to get. Talk about confusing. "Wait, so you're telling me the AIR is thicker than the PRO??? and heavier??? The mini has which chip??? Is it a pro???" - real conversation with real person trying to navigate the purchase of a device designed to make computing more approachable for the masses.

 

[deconstruct60]

They must have changed something from the M3 Max at least to add Thunderbolt 5, and I wouldn’t be surprised that they added interconnect parts that weren’t originally in the Max either. saying the M4 Max doesn’t have them doesn’t necessarily mean they couldn’t, but they’ve also been more upfront that Ultras could skip a generation. Hopefully that means that future Studios could see the latest Max chip sooner than whenever the next Ultra is ready.

Ultras skipping a geneartion more likely means the Mac Studio and even more likely Mac Pro's will be skipped. If the Ultra goes M3 Ultra , M5 Ultra , M7 Ultra then the roll outs of the Studio/Pro isn't going to go faster. It is going to trail behing that of the MBP 14/16" ; not jump out in front.

If these are augmented base Max dies then more likely the Max+ dies won't start production until the plain Max dies have finished. Which means more more likely that won't start on Studio/MP before the MBP 14/16" have already made their move. ( Essentially getting a modified 'hand me down' chip). The more customized this different die is , the more like then when ties to the relatively far smaller volumes of the MS Ultra and MP that Apple will need more than 12 months to recoup the costs of constructing the new augment.

 

[deconstruct60]

While channel sales outlets say the Mac Pro outsells the Mac Studio roughly 2 to 1 (making up 3% of all Mac sales),

What channel outlets is that? CHRP. Their data is in total conflict with Amazon , B&H , etc.
CHRP has dubious sampling that might work better for stuff like iPhones , but likely don't match more business process channels. Nor does it cleanly separate "gross sales revenue" from "sales units" distinctions. '
The Mac Pro doesn't outsell the Mac Studio in unit numbers.

it may be that the "upgrade" rate from an M2 to M3 would be low enough it is not worth the effort so perhaps the Mac Pro will remain on M2 until M5 is available.

If Apple 'upgraded' M3 Max base die design to fit in Thunderbolt 5 into the Max+ die using for the Ultra. Then there is a decent chance that they upgraded the PCI-e backhaul also. if making some I/O increment improvements , why just stop at one item?

Squatting on PCI-e v3 x8+x16 is not helping them. And if have to wait until the M5 Max laptop variant die 'retires' to launch that is a pretty long time to squat on the M2. The M2 Ultra may be just a kludge to get around pandemic hiccups and no 'Extreme" option. Settling on on the odds M3 , M5 , M7 ... pragmatically means going to be hard to skip any one of those.

 

[awshucks]

Try advising someone on which iPad and Apple Pencil to get. Talk about confusing. "Wait, so you're telling me the AIR is thicker than the PRO??? and heavier??? The mini has which chip??? Is it a pro???" - real conversation with real person trying to navigate the purchase of a device designed to make computing more approachable for the masses.

Yeah, the budget iPad needs to be canned and the air’s price reduced. Surely the same body and display panel couldn’t cost the same as they did in the Air 4 they debuted in.

Also, the Mac Pro needs to Mac Go and the studio renamed to the Pro. The dream of the small workstation finally came to life with the M1 Ultra, and Apple’s not gonna make a lot of sales with an M3 Ultra cheese grater Pro.