No M4 Ultra Chip? Apple Confirms the M4 Max Chip Lacks UltraFusion

[illuminatedrealitystudios]

Or … Timmy boy just likes his margins better on M3 Ultra than on M4 Ultra rollout. with TSMC getting hammered by Trump soon.. This really feels like hes hedging to keep his margin. - Gods i miss Steve.. All these companies just out for shareholder profit..over making good things.. keeps getting worse and worse. At least those of us on M2 Ultra Mac studios (me included) don’t have as much MOFO this round LOL… I look fwd to the day when i can finally ditch the RTX 4090 in my PC.. that whole machine is acting like a 3d rendering eGPU for the mac 10GB lan connection instead of Thunderbolt but its a dumb render note running headless. I only use it now for 3d rendering in Octane/Redshift as well as PCVR games which i start from the Ipad velcoed to the wall. - so for now apple’s GPU isn’t an issue.. i can always send 3d projects to the RENDER NETWORK as needed if i need it faster. So little mac studio otherwise still takes all the other stuff like video editing and designing easily even unreal engine stuff.

 

[rb2112]

Yeah…. I’ve been waiting a year for a new studio. I did plan to get the top model, such as a $4000 ultra, to last me the next 5-7 years. Now I may still get the standard m4 max though the 512gb hard drive is also insulting.

I stopped caring about the SSD size last year since all that is required if you upgrade is to move your high capacity external SSD to the new box.

 

[vantelimus]

This makes the lineup look a bit silly. I realise that not everyone needs an Ultra, but the ones who do will want the latest performance benefits. Maybe Apple is doing this intentionally to keep people on their toes as the yearly cycle does become a bit boring, and if you don't give people something to complain about or look forward to, it gets a bit predictable.

People who want and need the best performance will buy an M3-Ultra. It beats the crap out of an M4 Max by having more CPUs, GPUs, and main memory. The people who will skip the M3-Ultra because its individual components are not quite as fast as those on an M4 Max are those who don't the best performance in the first place or who can get by with smaller main memory.

 

[asdfjkl;]

I'm looking forward to comparisons between M4 Max Studio and M3 Ultra Studio. How much faster will the M3 Ultra be? Any at all? Just a smidge? Dying to know.

 

[picpicmac]

All these companies just out for shareholder profit..

Look, if you want to overhaul American society then I'll give it a go... but such a discussion probably belongs over in the Politics forum.

 

[picpicmac]

...an M3-Ultra. It beats the crap out of an M4 Max by having more CPUs, GPUs, and main memory.

Multi-core processing is a quickly diminishing returns game. See Amdahl's Law.

The reason to by the M3 Ultra is:
1) you need more than 128GB of RAM;
2) higher memory bandwidth;
3) more 8k monitors supported;
4) more TB5 ports.

 

[switz]

I ordered two Mac mini M4 Pros before the end of 2024. They both have 10 Gb ethernet, 64GB memory and the 20 core GPU option. The server one has a 2TB SSD and the other has the 8TB SSD. The server replaces a M2 Pro with 32GB ram, 10Gb ethernet and 2 TB SSD. It was given to one of my kids along with a new Studio Display as a new style 27" iMac for the family.

The other M4 mini has nearly the same performance specs as my M1 Ultra (128GB & 8TB SSD) with nearly twice the single core speed. It will be the primary computer if we get to our mountain RV park this summer along with a new nano screen Studio Display.

If the "M3 Ultra" is a true M3, then the single core speed would reflect the single core speed of the M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max line like in the M1 and M2 lines. If the single core speed reflects the M4, M4 Pro and M4 Max then it is a much different deal. No matter these details, the M3 Ultra is a custom brewed chip and the naming could allow for a "M4" derivative to become available for the Cheesegrater Mac tower later this year.

My M1 Ultra Mac Studio used price offer from Apple is still under $1,500 so I am not in a hurry to drop $$$ on the M3 Ultra. My trash can MacPro was in use from 2012 ro 2022 and still doing the job but I jumped into the future with the M1 Ultra. With my max options configuration it should run AI and new Mac OS versions to come for many more years.

I am most pleased that my M4 Max Mac Book Pro (128GB ram and 8TB SSD) has nearly the same performance specs of the M1 Ultra with double the single core speed.

 

[splifingate]

I don't see why they'd waste those engineering resources

Well, AAPL has already proved (proven? (provided?)) that they continue to spend time:USD on M3, so why not?

 

[splifingate]

As long as it's not MK Ultra

Ironically, AAPL Tech is the acid that now binds us.

Thanks to you, I am now listening to Delta MK II by Teh Orb...

 

[splifingate]

I guess it's a lie cause M3 Max doesn't really have Ultra Fusion connection with tear-down reviews and now Apple claims it does.

And the M3 didn't feature TB5, yet Apple now states that it does...

 

[splifingate]

I look fwd to the day when i can finally ditch the RTX 4090 in my PC

You could do this right now...

 

[switz]

Custom chips everyone??? Place your order!

 

[picpicmac]

AAPL has already proved (proven? (provided?)) that ...

"Proven" can do duty both to modify a noun as well be a verb, while "proved" is simply a verb (past tense.)

So either will work in your sentence.

Contemporary American English is likely to favor "Apple has already proved that..."

While one could also rephrase as "the proven M3 design by Apple ..."

 

[shinseiromeo]

I stopped caring about the SSD size last year since all that is required if you upgrade is to move your high capacity external SSD to the new box.

Could you tell me your use case? My current iMac has 1TB. On it is a photo library of about 300gb, a few apps, and several iPhone / iPad full manual backups. I use about 500gb out of the 1TB currently

I clone the ssd to two external T7 shields as safety backups. I also own two nvme’s that are currently unused, one 4tb 990 pro and one 2tb 990 evo plus. I don’t own any external enclosures.

 

[Varmann]

I guess there is a risk that Ultra variants will disappear, just as Extreme did.
It is harder and more expensive to manufacture big chips. It is a long time since Apple were into vanity projects that do not generate significant profit, at least not in mature market segments.

 

[pp_amorim]

Of course it lacks UltraFusion, it's a SoIC, no need for it.

 

[pp_amorim]

I guess there is a risk that Ultra variants will disappear, just as Extreme did.
It is harder and more expensive to manufacture big chips. It is a long time since Apple were into vanity projects that do not generate significant profit, at least not in mature market segments.

Not really, they instead do a 3D stacking like it's done on the AMD 3D V-Cache.

 

[CWallace]

I guess there is a risk that Ultra variants will disappear, just as Extreme did.
It is harder and more expensive to manufacture big chips. It is a long time since Apple were into vanity projects that do not generate significant profit, at least not in mature market segments.

This is likely why Apple has stated that not every generation of M will have an Ultra model.

Of course it lacks UltraFusion, it's a SoIC, no need for it.

Apple has confirmed that M3 Ultra uses UltraFusion to link two enhanced M3 Max dies.

M3 Ultra is built using Apple’s innovative UltraFusion packaging architecture, which links two M3 Max dies over 10,000 high-speed connections that offer low latency and high bandwidth.

Apple reveals M3 Ultra, taking Apple silicon to a new extreme

Apple today announced M3 Ultra, offering the most powerful CPU and GPU in a Mac.

www.apple.com

Not really, they instead do a 3D stacking like it's done on the AMD 3D V-Cache.

TSMC was hoping to have 3D stacking ready for M4, but they also expected M4 to ship this year, not last year. So I do not believe M4 is using 3D stacking and we might not see it until M5.

TSMC working on next-generation chip packaging which might be used on Apple’s M4 chip

TSMC has reportedly secured four major clients for its latest SoIC packaging – AMD, Nvidia, Broadcom, and Apple. The chip manufacturer is actively working on increasing its next-generation chip packaging (CoWoS) production capacity. Apple is testing the next-generation packaging solution Apple...

semiwiki.com

 

[pp_amorim]

This is likely why Apple has stated that not every generation of M will have an Ultra model.




Apple has confirmed that M3 Ultra uses UltraFusion to link two enhanced M3 Max dies.

Apple reveals M3 Ultra, taking Apple silicon to a new extreme

Apple today announced M3 Ultra, offering the most powerful CPU and GPU in a Mac.

www.apple.com

TSMC was hoping to have 3D stacking ready for M4, but they also expected M4 to ship this year, not last year. So I do not believe M4 is using 3D stacking and we might not see it until M5.

TSMC working on next-generation chip packaging which might be used on Apple’s M4 chip

TSMC has reportedly secured four major clients for its latest SoIC packaging – AMD, Nvidia, Broadcom, and Apple. The chip manufacturer is actively working on increasing its next-generation chip packaging (CoWoS) production capacity. Apple is testing the next-generation packaging solution Apple...

semiwiki.com

What prevents apple from postponing the M4 to use this 3D stacking on the M4 Ultra?

 

[bradman83]

UltraFusion doesn't scale the performance of multiple processors well. My guess is that M3 Ultra is the last chip with UltraFusion and they're working on something completely new that wouldn't be ready in time for M4 Ultra.

Apple is rumored to be adopting TSMC's SoIC technology with the M5 generation which will allow chips to be built in a tiled manner instead of as monolithic dies. That would theoretically eliminate the need for UltraFusion since they can assemble an Ultra chip using tiles instead.

 

[CWallace]

What prevents apple from postponing the M4 to use this 3D stacking on the M4 Ultra?

Cost would be my guess. The M4 is already in serial production on its current process and that production cost will continue to drop as yields increase.

So I would expect Apple to design the next generation of M on the 3D stacking technology, provided it offers sufficient benefit to them to do so in terms of cost/performance.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

The Apple Silicon lineup makes complete sense - compared to world politics at the moment. Loony toons.

 

[splifingate]

Contemporary American English is likely to favor "Apple has already proved that..."

Well, that then makes sense in my case

 

[bigglow]

They can add UltraFusion back in a year or two.

 

[Schmedly]

A spokesperson for Apple has told French technology website Numerama that its M4 Max chip lacks an UltraFusion connector, which would have paved the way for the release of a doubled-up M4 Ultra chip in the future.

As we recently covered, Apple told Ars Technica that not every generation of M-series chips for Macs will include an "Ultra" chip. That seems like Apple indirectly confirming that it has no plans to release an M4 Ultra chip, and the M4 Max's lack of UltraFusion technology makes it even more likely there won't be an M4 Ultra chip.

Apple could still design an M4 Ultra chip from scratch, but it seems to have downplayed this possibility, according to the Numerama report.

The new Mac Studio announced today is available with M4 Max and M3 Ultra chip options, with no M4 Ultra chip offered. Apple says the M3 Ultra chip is essentially two M3 Max chips fused together with its UltraFusion technology, so the chip's specs are all doubled compared to the M3 Max. There was speculation last year about the M3 Max chip lacking UltraFusion technology, but Apple's announcement today has proven that rumor was false.

In summary, the M3 Max chip has an UltraFusion connector, but the M4 Max chip does not.

The M3 Ultra chip features up to a 32-core CPU, up to an 80-core GPU, a 32-core Neural Engine, and support for up to 512GB of unified RAM. Apple says the M3 Ultra chip is up to 1.5x faster than the M2 Ultra chip, and up to 1.8x faster than the M1 Ultra chip. To learn more about the chip, read our coverage of Apple's announcement.

Article Link: No M4 Ultra Chip? Apple Confirms the M4 Max Chip Lacks UltraFusion

I'm a bit confused here. I thought the M3 Max chip did NOT have an UltraFusion interposer, yet Apple's M3 Ultra description says it's made with two M3 Max chips. Did they make versions with and without the fusion chip? https://macdailynews.com/2024/03/29...m3-max-chips-bolted-together/#google_vignette