No New Apple Television Products Coming in 2012 as Content Negotiations Stall Once Again

[EbookReader]

What Apple/Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Netflix needs?

Content.

If the content owners don't want to give the content to protect their "cable tv" business, make your own content.

It could be costly at first to produce your own contents, but in the long run, it would be worth it, especially if Apple/Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Netflix licenses each other contents.

Netflix is making several TV shows. HBO has been making its own tv shows for years.

If each companies make 10 TV shows a year and they all licenses these TV shows to each others, you have 50 TV shows a year. It costs about $1 mil to make 1 episode. This is nothing for the like of Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. If Netflix can make several TV shows, so can the companies 100 times bigger.

 

[ixodes]

Those content owners better get with the program or die out. Now wonder they call them the dinosaur networks!!

Die out? Nice try, but no cigar.

It's their game, on their turf.

While that may change at some point, it won't be circa 2012, 2013 or... well you get the idea.

 

[kingledley]

Apple TV in it's current form works for me in terms of access to iTunes content and Netflix on the big screen, plus mirroring.

More content provision apps would make it a far stronger offering though - for example I'd love to see the Apple TV user experience applied to BBC iPlayer, LoveFilm etc....I'm in the UK.....

At the moment, from a UK user perspective, the content provision / apps are pretty light and could do with opening up a bit to compete better with other non Apple devices.

Agree with this. If it had the iPlayer, etc I would definitely buy it. Really don't get why they haven't done so yet. (I realise I can stream it with the iPhone but that's not an ideal situation).

Been using this Youview box that has just been released. Although expensive (£300), it works great. On demand stuff like iPlayer and 4OD integrated into the normal tv menu, and they're adding other content like Sky's Now TV, and hopefully Netflix. And it has a big hard drive.

 

[CoreForce]

what I don't get is why Apple can't add BBC iPlayer to the Apple TV for us here in the UK since it's already available for virtually every other Internet connected device

because they still encode in On2 VP6 not H.264?

(provided you're in the UK).

provided you use a proxy that is located in the UK.


We have live TV streaming from multiple providers available in Switzerland (Zattoo, Wilmaa, etc). One can stream those from an iOS device to an AppleTV connected. Works like a charm as long as there are not too many users connected with the service.... At the same time one can have online movie rentals from different providers, including Apple.

Technology is there. But providing those services over Internet is not very clever in terms of resource usage.
Cable operators feed one stream into the cable and this is multiplied multiple times on the way to the consumer where appropriate. Access to content is regulated on the receiver device.
On Internet TV, the provider has to serve all clients with one feed each. Costs much more and easily creates bottlenecks.

 

[Macist]

I know lots of people that just never watch TV via cable, aerial of satellite - it's all iPlayer, 4oD, Netflix, iTunes, etc. and of course the 'dodgy' options.

You don't need a crystal ball to understand that broadcast TV companies are **** scared of this sea-change.

Apple should just bypass them. In the UK, if they buy up Premiership Football rights and just add an app to the existing Apple TV, Murdoch's Sky gets a hammer blow to the guts that will spark its terminal decline. No one gives a toss about movie channels or seeing the one or two hot US dramas Sky shows a bit sooner.

 

[thesheep]

What Apple is lacking now are Steve Jobs' negotiating skills (oft referred to as the 'reality distortion field'.) People often attribute Apple's success only to hardware and software, forgetting all the negotiating that would have paved the way for the iTunes phenomenon. I have sometimes wondered how much of that was due to Steve's much talked about ability to win people over to his vision.

I agree with this. I suspect this may be the first time since his death that the lack of Steve Jobs has resulted in a significant failure for Apple. Apple's success in negotiating a new kind of relationship with the phone companies for the original iPhone was hugely impressive and changed an entire industry. I have a hunch that personalities will have been very important in that. The deals with media companies for getting music on iTunes were also pretty successful. I think the force of Steve Jobs' will was a lot to do with these deals. Probably makes it all the harder to actually get anywhere with the TV companies.

 

[MacDav]

I'm starting to realize that if Apple wants to compete, then they'll have to actually become a TV provider, no different than Dish or DirecTV. Why are they trying to negotiate deals with cable companies? And why are they trying to negotiate with the creators for show content to download like a HULU or NetFlix?

No, the key to their success is to simply directly compete with the Cable Companies or Dish/Direct by being the first internet TV provider. The difference? Channels a la carte. $1.29 a channel for tier 1. 99 cents a channel for tier 2, and probably $2 a channel for the HBOs, etc. Other specialty sports packages can simply be priced competitively like dish or even cable does. Like a pay per season type thing.

I think at those rates, the cost for 50 good channels you actually want would cost about the same as it ever does. But you wouldn't get all the crap. And if you wanted the other 200 channels you don't need, then it would cost you more. The key is to get the providers to allow them to purchase these channels at the right price to make that happen.

THEN - you've got a service that everyone wants and you sell the hardware to make it happen. TVs, boxes, and of course all the content also available with iPad/Phone app. AND, like Dish, any show you want DVR'd will simply be in the cloud for you to view on your iPad or iPhone or AppleTV. Dish has a great app for this. You can watch a bunch of LiveTV on your phone or pad (anywhere I think). I think this could definitely revolutionize television. Still live and scheduled. Still available via download after it airs. And it also opens it up to little podcast channels like the Roku has becoming available. Local time slots for commercials could be filled with ads that are deemed for you based on your interests and watching prefs. THAT might be the argument to win over the content providers. If ads can be served up to more success, then they can charge more for the ads. The whole thing could be the iTunes for the TV industry. Problem is, the TV industry isn't in trouble. The music industry was.

But all it takes is for one deal to be made. Get Time Warner to allow them to stream their networks for a price. If they sell their content to Dish, to Comcast, to Charter, to DirecTV, then why not Apple? My guess is they want to bundle channels in a way that wouldn't be cost effective for Apple. And this is what the negotiations are about. Apple probably wants to give them a cut for each registration, instead of paying up front like Cable and Dish probably do. Whatever it is, it's a new pricing model and I'm guessing it has to do with a la carte.

Within a year or two the cable companies and satellite companies would fall in line offering the same a la carte services, but with poor interfaces and poor integration since they don't actually make TVs or iPads. Google will come out with the same service and have cheaper boxes with lesser interfaces for awhile.

Yes, it's interesting that TimeWarner sells it's content to satellite when they are direct competition to TimeWarner Cable. It would take something "magical" for Apple to get TimeWarner to give them any content. So I don't know, the whole thing is a big mess. Yes, Ala Carte is what everyone wants even if they don't realize it. How we get there is the question. Apple is on AutoPilot right now. It would take someone willing to take a lot of heat (like Steve Jobs) to forge ahead in a meaningful way. I think everyone at Apple is playing it safe now. So I don't expect any major announcements until that changes. If it ever does.

 

[kiljoy616]

* Waits for flood of people saying Apple will just buy all the networks and cable companies *.

Because that will totally happen. I also think any form of Apple TV could be an issue, as the Telecomns, Networks and cable providers ( who tend to be the ISP's for most people as well ) really don't have anything to gain from Apples deals, which probably go something like " so, we'll take all the profit and you get nothing "

The current Apple TV setup seems to work pretty well as it is.

Probably only anything is ever going to change. 30 years and we still have no change 30 years from now it will be no different. That is what government sanctions monopoly do.

 

[Hawkeye411]

Cable companies need to change their business model! Young people are not getting cable packages. If they don't make a radical change, they could be left behind.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Why do they need a cable company at all? Several already exist and they manage to negotiate amoungst themselves to provide the same channels. Why does Apple need to cooperate with them? Why not bypass them entirely and go to the networks?

Cable companies need to change their business model! Young people are not getting cable packages. If they don't make a radical change, they could be left behind.

Absolutely right. I'm not touching cable.

 

[needfx]

no MR channel?

 

[Yelmurc]

My suggestion to Apple is to create the tools and publishing platform that would make it simple for anyone that creates content to be able to monetize their work. Finally find a use for iAds and create a ad platform for iTunes content. Or allow them to sell it ad free. Allow applications to be created for the Apple TV set top box so that content makers can bundle their programs. Use the same subscription ala cart model they have for magazines and MLB: At Bat. Give the content makers the choice on how to monetize.

They also need to create the tools to create this content. Continue to add more high end support for Final Cut and Logic. As well as create more professional software by buying or competing with Autodesk and Adobe. Allow creators to create a content producer account for iTunes that would allow submission of content through most programs from Aperture, Pages, iBooks Author, Final Cut, Logic, Etc..

While doing all this they need to continue to support the Mac Pro line. Allow the professionals to be able to customize their Mac Pros more than ever. Giving them the flexibility to get the job done. If they really wanted to get ambitious they could create other hardware like camera's and the like but I think overall its best just stick with computers.

Apple needs to really change the playing field. If the content owners don't want to share their content. Circumvent them and bring the people who actually make the content to your side. Apple doesn't need to lock their content to iTunes eco system. If they can give the creators more control as well as more or equal money they will flock to it. They just need one original hit to get people on board.

 

[kiljoy616]

Note to Apple:

Stop playing around making "Toys" for people to play with.
Yes, I know toys make you a lot of money but you are neglecting your roots.

Ok, many people may not NEED real powerful computers any more, but that does not you should just give up pushing.

Please get back to the great company (tech wise, not money wise) you once were and push and push tech as hard as you can every single year so the whole world can move forward to better things.

Don't just dumb society down with easy to use toys, please.

Oh how I wish you were "cutting edge" for people's main computers once again.

One day, perhaps.......

Right like that worked so well for them before. Apple keep making toys people want to buy and move on the market for super powerful is small and well entrenched on the Windows side. IT executives will not touch Apple its not going to happen. Small business maybe, large business maybe for graphics nothing else. Apple killed their server line hardware. A mistake I think but they saw the writing, make toys and consumption product that is where they make money.

 

[CplBadboy]

I say screw the cable tv companies and go directly to the content makers for the first few years. After those content makers who are locked into contract with cable companies see how much money there is to be made from Apple TV and with more money in their pockets they will jump ship to the Apple TV formula. Even here in the UK I watch Apple TV and its limited offerings more so than live TV. The cable satellite ' terrestrial providers are so reluctant to spend any money for new programmes that we are now seeing so many repeats thats its sickening. Every other week there is a repeat of the previous weeks film documentary etc. I subscribes to TWIt TV and its great watching it whenever I want. Netflix is fantastic and with the likes of the iTunes festival available this month the Apple TV really is a great device that has seen more use this year than any year previous. Im looking forward to Tv evolving into something that I pay for what I want and not what the TV cable company rips me off for. There is of course those shows that are available only on the box but people are catching on and cutting the cable.

The sooner Apple gets this going without the cable providers the better.

 

[Lesser Evets]

... Apple will not be releasing a new "TV product" this year as difficult negotiations with media companies have slowed Apple's plans.

This reminds me of the VCR days in the late 70s and early 80s when the movie industry panicked. They wouldn't reduce the sales price of movies on tape because they felt a person was buying the rights to show and reshow the "print". Movies were $80+ until someone caught on and dropped the price enough for people to actually buy a movie, and the movie industry was suddenly making money like mad, theater attendance improved as well.

The bean counters are always locked in the status quo. Innovation is pointless because it is a gamble. They have to realize the sad state of current content with the horrible formatting of current television channels has driven most people away from TV on cable and air over to internet. The logical choice would be to shut down channels and take up content providers. Apple TV and other Smart TV-type devices are an inevitable future of television.

I'm surprised that anyone watches cable/broadcast TV anymore. Only when advertising dollars slip away because viewers are gone will the revolution rush to fruition.

 

[kiljoy616]

Cable companies need to change their business model! Young people are not getting cable packages. If they don't make a radical change, they could be left behind.

They may but not in the next few years maybe in a decade maybe not.

 

[Schizoid]

I 100% agree with you on that.

it better be 3 inches thick! sorry... thin!

 

[Rogifan]

So many be now we can do away with this notion that when Apple says 'jump' everyone responds 'how high'. If Apple wants to get in this space they'd probably have to buy a satellite or cable company. I don't see that happening.

 

[Winni]

The joke is there's nothing to watch on TV in the first place

I fully agree. I gave up on watching TV more than 12 years ago and never missed it for a minute. I love movies, but I watch them on my computers.

 

[Navdakilla]

As long as my AppleTV keeps working the way it does, content-wise. I'm happy.

Exactly. Only handbrake doesnt work anymore in mountain lion, other than that, love the apple tv for what it does

 

[Winni]

I agree with this. I suspect this may be the first time since his death that the lack of Steve Jobs has resulted in a significant failure for Apple. Apple's success in negotiating a new kind of relationship with the phone companies for the original iPhone was hugely impressive and changed an entire industry. I have a hunch that personalities will have been very important in that. The deals with media companies for getting music on iTunes were also pretty successful. I think the force of Steve Jobs' will was a lot to do with these deals. Probably makes it all the harder to actually get anywhere with the TV companies.

Steve Jobs was probably one of the best sales persons that have ever lived. His presentations were interesting and entertaining and he made whatever product he introduced look special and fascinating. Tim Cook is an accountant who might be great at crunching numbers and logistics, but he cannot sell or spark interest in an audience; he's just another CEO of another soulless corporation.

 

[gtg660w]

Hey, another product that MR has been hyping up and proclaimed with certainty its coming only to back out at the 11th hour. Kinda like the iPad Mini that you guys guarenteed would be released 2 years ago and again last year?

In other news, the iPhone Mini is rumored to be in production. Here is a shoddy rendered picture. Trust us, its real....

Where's the like button?

 

[samcraig]

A few things.

If there's nothing of interest to watch on TV (according to some MR posters) - then what good would an Apple TV be "for you" other than what already exists.

Second - there cannot be any correlation between Apple's entry into the cellular phone industry and the cable industry. Completely different animals.Completely.

Third - while I'm interested in seeing what Apple can do with a TV - I would put money on the fact that it will be a premium set and very few (if any) options other than 2-3 screen sizes. Additionally - people don't upgrade their TVs with the same frequency as their phones. So even if Apple enters the market - they aren't going to dominate for awhile.

Fourth - I see the more likely scenario of Apple creating a box which expands on their current Apple TV and distributing through cable providers or themselves - but not an actual TV. Makes a lot more sense and can still have whatever UI they want while keeping the cost low.

my 02.

 

[bigmikeinnj]

Not that Apple did not want to release new TV in 2012 but it was due to negotiation deadlock between the cable companies. If Apple can reconstruct its proposal and renegotiate with these companies, there will be new Apple TV in 2013.

Yup I tend to agree with you. Was hoping a new Apple TV set top box would come out - I know if I buy the current one to upgrade from my Apple TV 2 box a month later the new one will come out. This one works pretty well right now - and watching the cable companies struggle warms my heart - jeez, just the way Comcast is cutting staff and salaries on big name shows like Today, Jay Leno, ect. should tell you how "well" they're doing.

 

[ironpony]

MacRumors

New page intro was nice but how about one on how to help causes like the one in this forum!

We are the masses and can help to change (I think) so help us to help.
Apple may have a great new platform!


I recently notice that some networks are advertising they are not available on Dish Network, I doubt that is the network itself but more the cable providers airing this on their dime.
Does this sound like cable trying to do away with an industry (Dish). Maybe. I seem to see it that way.

There has got to be a way to help sway cable providers to a better content platform.
If their systems run DOS maybe a hack. This would get more media interest than a supposed FBI laptop hack.
Can I get in trouble for saying that? my UDID will be on some list.
Any way I think we have some power, Mac Rumors should have an article on this subject.