No New PowerMac, no New PowerBook

[Rob587]

Dude... please don't talk about things you have NO CLUE about...

Sure, the bus is 1.35Ghz... but the memory bus is choking along at 400Mhz.

Whereas, the new Intel P4 Memory DDR2 Bus is as fast as 1Ghz.

CPU bus alone is nice... but STILL creates a bottleneck if the arfing MEMORY BUS slows it down.

Secondly, NO, 2 2.7 GHZ CPUS do NOT equal a 4Ghz CPU.

First of all, they will be SLOWER on single-threaded apps due to a CPU overhead... hence the move to dual-core CPUs.

Secondly, even on apps that ARE multi-threaded, you do not get a full 2x the speed benefit... typically 35-60% benefit... based on the app and how it was written.

AND IF YOU WOULD READ THE POST... I bought it because my main machine died... and I wanted to try the Apple world out. I love OSX so far... but the machine is not a fast machine compared to the Single P4 2.8 I had. Actually, boot times, program run times, everything is slower on this machine than on my single 2.8Ghz P4.

I only bought it because I needed a computer, and wanted to try the MAC OUT... and SUPPOSEDLY knew that the newer, updated machines would be out w/in my 30 day return policy window.

It's going back one way or the other... I need a machine.

I just won't pay $3600 for this pile of crap.

ok, if the memory bus bothers you, you know you can put like 8gigs in right?

the only other thing im gonna say is your a "LIER"! There is absolutley no way your 2.8 crap pentium was as fast as a dual 2.7

You should also expect to pay a little more for an overall better computing expieriance even if the hardware specs arent GOD LIKE.... which they almost are.

 

[Rob587]

also, I think you should take your dual 2.7 back.

You owning a mac would only make the mac community look stupid.

 

[AP_piano295]

Its funny all of a sudden you powerbook people are trash talking them ive been doing it for months and every time I say something everyone bitches at me "how are they oudated they run all current programs and they are super reasonable in price" heh heh powerbooks will be an update without celebration in a week or two and it will still be old technolodgy.

as I said before have fun waiting for those intels

 

[eva01]

Its funny all of a sudden you powerbook people are trash talking them ive been doing it for months and every time I say something everyone bitches at me "how are they oudated they run all current programs and they are super reasonable in price" heh heh powerbooks will be an update without celebration in a week or two and it will still be old technolodgy.

as I said before have fun waiting for those intels

i LOVE my revision D powerbook

 

[AP_piano295]

ok, if the memory bus bothers you, you know you can put like 8gigs in right?

the only other thing im gonna say is your a "LIER"! There is absolutley no way your 2.8 crap pentium was as fast as a dual 2.7

You should also expect to pay a little more for an overall better computing expieriance even if the hardware specs arent GOD LIKE.... which they almost are.

not necessarily true a 2.8 would be faster than a powermac at running individual apps a dual 2.7 powermac is not a 5.4 ghz machine it is a 2.7ghz machine that will not slow down if you are attempting to run multiple tasks at the same time (basically more complicated then this but I cant explain the rest)

 

[risc]

Its funny all of a sudden you powerbook people are trash talking them ive been doing it for months and every time I say something everyone bitches at me "how are they oudated they run all current programs and they are super reasonable in price" heh heh powerbooks will be an update without celebration in a week or two and it will still be old technolodgy.

as I said before have fun waiting for those intels

Still trolling with the same material, and I'm still using my 15" Rev C 1.67 GHz with no problems at all.

As for the whinning newbies, boo hoo Apple updated a product boo hoo! Open your eyes and see what this actually means for the last revision of PPC hardware, you guys have been crying so long about it, while people like myself have been using our machines and having a great time, when the hardware you finally asked for turns up you whine like hurt puppies. Get over it, if you wont buy the current Power* range keep waiting, who cares?

 

[risc]

i LOVE my revision D powerbook

Hey eva01 looks like we are still defending our **** hardware!

 

[eva01]

Still trolling with the same material, and I'm still using my 15" Rev C 1.67 GHz with no problems at all.

As for the whinning newbies, boo hoo Apple updated a product boo hoo! Open your eyes and see what this actually means for the last revision of PPC hardware, you guys have been crying so long about it, while people like myself have been using our machines and having a great time, when the hardware you finally asked for turns up you whine like hurt puppies. Get over it, if you wont buy the current Power* range keep waiting, who cares?

YAY go Revision D powerbook team go *high fives risc*

i love my dual powermac too wooooo go apple you rock

 

[Rob587]

not necessarily true a 2.8 would be faster than a powermac at running individual apps a dual 2.7 powermac is not a 5.4 ghz machine it is a 2.7ghz machine that will not slow down if you are attempting to run multiple tasks at the same time (basically more complicated then this but I cant explain the rest)

yea, I know that. But a 2.7ghz apple processor is going to run better than a 2.8ghz junk pentium, and even if it didnt it would be an unoticable difference of 100ghz that would not out wiegh buying the better machine and os. You couldnt run multiple apps on the pentium like you could with the dual apple either. So be gone with you.

 

[g0gie]

Actually guys, its pretty much accepted in the tech community that as far as hardware is concerned- apple is seriously lagging behind - even though you boast your 1.67 G4's (I have one too). Sure it seems fast and pretty snappy, but the software thats running doesnt require high hardware specs- you can even run tiger on macs generations older due to this simple fact. If you placed that same software (such as tiger) on a pentium -m or a p4 it runs circles around that same software running on a g4 or a g5. I cant speak for the new iMac - it does has some good upgrades moving on to DDR2 and such, but still, if you look around the web- heck if you even install osx on your x86 computer you'll know what im talking about. So it comes down to this: All mac software runs find and runs quite fast on current PPC chips, just because your not going to need a 4Ghz g5( if that even existed) to run the software. admit it- most of you guys are using safari and adium with maybe some photoshop with final cut pro. put that same software on a current intel chip and you will see why so many people care complaining about apple's PRO line. It used to be that you couldnt compare PC's to Macs in herently like comparing apples to oranges. But now with the OSX port to x86- and real world testing you CAN compare the 2 platforms. So dont give the people complaining a hard time about hardware updates- if you were smart you'd understand that apple hardware really IS lagging behind (except possibly the new iMac which i believe is crazy since now the iMac has better specs than a g5 powermac)\

PS also take into account that the PPC chips support alitvec and such which gives them an edge but still nothing compared to the performace the same software would be running on the other platform

 

[risc]

LOL so you are telling me that because Apples hardware can run all the software made for Apple it is lagging behind? You are then also telling me that software that is made for PPC if it actually was made for x86 it would run faster? I think there is a flaw in your logic!

 

[eva01]

Actually guys, its pretty much accepted in the tech community that as far as hardware is concerned- apple is seriously lagging behind - even though you boast your 1.67 G4's (I have one too). Sure it seems fast and pretty snappy, but the software thats running doesnt require high hardware specs- you can even run tiger on macs generations older due to this simple fact. If you placed that same software (such as tiger) on a pentium -m or a p4 it runs circles around that same software running on a g4 or a g5. I cant speak for the new iMac - it does has some good upgrades moving on to DDR2 and such, but still, if you look around the web- heck if you even install osx on your x86 computer you'll know what im talking about. So it comes down to this: All mac software runs find and runs quite fast on current PPC chips, just because your not going to need a 4Ghz g5( if that even existed) to run the software. admit it- most of you guys are using safari and adium with maybe some photoshop with final cut pro. put that same software on a current intel chip and you will see why so many people care complaining about apple's PRO line. It used to be that you couldnt compare PC's to Macs in herently like comparing apples to oranges. But now with the OSX port to x86- and real world testing you CAN compare the 2 platforms. So dont give the people complaining a hard time about hardware updates- if you were smart you'd understand that apple hardware really IS lagging behind (except possibly the new iMac which i believe is crazy since now the iMac has better specs than a g5 powermac)

wicked annoying post, my laptop runs everything i own beautifully, why would i want anything else? all i need is more RAM in my powerbook. And when my computer can't run the newest software well, i will just buy another powerbook, no worries there.

 

[bousozoku]

Geez, settle down...they're just tools.

 

[risc]

wicked annoying post, my laptop runs everything i own beautifully, why would i want anything else? all i need is more RAM in my powerbook. And when my computer can't run the newest software well, i will just buy another powerbook, no worries there.

Oh come on eva01 you just need to embrace the fact that your computers suck! I have the same ones mine suck too! Just because they do everything that WE need doesn't mean they don't suck!

 

[eva01]

Geez, settle down...they're just tools.

the trolls or the computers are tools, or both?

 

[WRXHokie]

I can understand both sides of this argument here... but i think you need to tone it down a bit.

Updates to both lines are badly needed, as their price does not equal their value at all. But at the same time, there's no need to come in here and swear about there not being an update.

Same goes for the other folks who have older machines that swear there is nothing wrong with the current offerings. There is nothing wrong with them, but you dont need to degrade the folks that are upset about them not being updated. I dont blame them cause the "suppposed" rumor sites have been back and forth on these updates for almost a month now. None of these sites got it even close till right up until the day of. Therefore, let them wallow in their misery, if you dont like it then just ignore the thread. Its as easy as that.

Updates are badly needed as the hardware in each of the lines is sadly outdated, and anyone who would pay full price for them is throwing money away. They are fine machines, but you got to be a smart buyer about it.

 

[g0gie]

LOL so you are telling me that because Apples hardware can run all the software made for Apple it is lagging behind? You are then also telling me that software that is made for PPC if it actually was made for x86 it would run faster? I think there is a flaw in your logic!

risc what im saying is this-

its obvious that software has been made for both platforms- its even been officially stated by apple that Mac OSX was coded so it was NOT processor dependent. So simply- if you put OSX on the highest performing powermac vs the highest spec'ed PC - the PC would be noticably faster, which has been the report from virtually every Mac software developer. I'm not saying a g4 isnt good enough- its plenty fast for most users, but people are complaining beacause the have to wait so long a pay such a premium to have hardware that isnt up to todays standards. Thats all, please dont take my post as an atack on what you say

 

[risc]

They are fine machines, but you got to be a smart buyer about it.

So the professional artist that needs a Power Mac G5 shouldn't buy 1 now because you say they need an upgrade?

 

[risc]

risc what im saying is this-

its obvious that software has been made for both platforms- its even been officially stated by apple that Mac OSX was coded so it was NOT processor dependent. So simply- if you put OSX on the highest performing powermac vs the highest spec'ed PC - the PC would be noticably faster, which has been the report from virtually every Mac software developer. I'm not saying a g4 isnt good enough- its plenty fast for most users, but people are complaining beacause the have to wait so long a pay such a premium to have hardware that isnt up to todays standards. Thats all, please dont take my post as an atack on what you say

Okay so no one buy a Mac until the x86 Mactels are released. Got ya! Okay everyone you heard it here all Macs suck until the x86 switch is complete!

 

[chungbob]

i cant stop laughing when i read these posts and see people are on the verge of crying because of no updates.... haha' -

i just got my ibook 12" g4- im happy

 

[eva01]

risc what im saying is this-

its obvious that software has been made for both platforms- its even been officially stated by apple that Mac OSX was coded so it was NOT processor dependent. So simply- if you put OSX on the highest performing powermac vs the highest spec'ed PC - the PC would be noticably faster, which has been the report from virtually every Mac software developer. I'm not saying a g4 isnt good enough- its plenty fast for most users, but people are complaining beacause the have to wait so long a pay such a premium to have hardware that isnt up to todays standards. Thats all, please dont take my post as an atack on what you say

is there an OS X officially out for x86 that people can get, no there isn't, so you still can't compare them.


my cat seems to love my powerbook, so if she loves it then i love it

 

[enygma]

Why does everyone have to fricken complain. The powerbooks are plenty fast when maxed out for anyone. EVEN A GAMER! and if you are a computer snob you can go get a gaming pc laptop if you want to be a baby. Also, the dual 2.7ghz powermac is plenty fast for everyting as well. So stop writting "Im SOOOOO Disapointed" before I throw up.

In my case, the 1.5GHz Poerbook isn't near powerful enough to run my 3D applications as nice as my PC workstation (then again, my PC workstation is a dual Opteron). There are a number of procedures that I've needed to run that took forever on the Powerbook and rendering is just a plain bitch.

The 2.7GHz G5, while nice, is starting to get dated compared to AMD offerings, namely the Opteron 252, 254, 265, 270 and 275. While I mainly want to get a PowerMac to have quick turnaround on rendering DVD content in DVD Studio Pro or filtered video in Final Cut, I also want something that will allow me to do all this stuff as well as 3D work in applications like Maya.

My dual Opteron 250 outperforms the fastest PowerMacs in rendering benchmarks, I don't have an interest in spending money on a PowerMac that doesn't perform at least as well as the PC workstation I'm currently using. Dual Dual Core Powermacs, if released today would have gotten me running to my reseller and ordering one at this moment. The extra performance dual core offers is substantial compared to minor speed bump.

 

[CyberDoberman]

ok, if the memory bus bothers you, you know you can put like 8gigs in right?

the only other thing im gonna say is your a "LIER"! There is absolutley no way your 2.8 crap pentium was as fast as a dual 2.7

You should also expect to pay a little more for an overall better computing expieriance even if the hardware specs arent GOD LIKE.... which they almost are.

First thing...

It's LIAR, not LIER.

Secondly, I had 3 GB of ram in the computer. Adding more ram does NOT increase the speed that it runs at.

Thirdly, I actually detailed the speed of the computer. Turns out the CPU was what fried on my PC... and I replaced it... and had to set everything up again.

With that in mind... here is what I did (timed everything... and was honest)...

PeeCee...P4 2.8Ghz w/ 1 Gig Ram, 52x16xDVDCDRW, 250Gig Maxtor SATA Drive, nVidia GT6600AGP Card:
Mac... Dual 2.7Ghz w/ 2 Gig Ram, Sony 32X16DVDBurner, 2x250 Gig SATA Drives set up as RAID STRIPE 0, Radeon 9650AGP Card:

(By the way, the Mac for these tests only had 2 gigs of ram, not three, as I had to put 2 of my PC3200 DIMMS into the PEECEE with the new CPU).

The Mac had RAID STRIPE 0, 1 GB Extra Ram... but wasn't even as fast as the 2.8Ghz P4...

Install Time:

This is defined as being timed from the moment you press the power button on the case, and insert the OS CD, and includes a quick format of the drive, install of the OS, all reboots required, and all patches installed.

Windows PC = 2Hours, 35Minutes.
Mac = 38 Minutes.

The Mac destroyed the PC in terms of OS install and such.

Now... lets talk boot times, shall we?

Windows PC = 48.46s
Mac = 42.84s

The Mac won. By 6 Seconds on a machine that should have DESTROYED the PeeCee. Note... all of that was OS Load Time. The actual boot time of the two machines (defined as the time between power on to the first OS loading screen) was almost identicle...

Windows PC = 23.25s
Mac = 23.46s

This was too close to call... again, though... for such a bad ass supposed machine... why was it so slow booting?

Ok... lets move on to actual EVERY DAY APPS!

I have a Canon 10D... that happened to have 215 Photos on it...

I set up iPhoto to download them on the Mac... and used the Built In XP Tool in Windows to download them to the PeeCee.

Transfer time of 215 Pictures was:

Windows PC = 19m16s
Mac = 21m09s

The Mac was almost 2 MINUTES SLOWER at downloading all my photos onto the computer than the 2.8Ghz P4 was.

Ok... Next... Ripping the movie Robots to the HDD.
Now I will give a caveat here... this was very close... and is probably more to do with DVD rip speed... but still...

I used DVDSHRINK on the PeeCee. I used MacRipper on the Mac.

Windows PC = 10m30s
Mac = 10m59s

It was about 30 seconds slower on the DUAL 2.7Ghz G5. WTF?

Ok... let's move on...

File Duplication.

Ok, here... the Mac DESTROYED the PC. I was impressed. This was no doubt do to the SATA RAID...

I duplicated the folder "Robots" once ripped (5.8Gigs, I think???)

Windows PC = 12m50s
Mac = 2m14s

This wasn't even close... the Mac D E S T R O Y E D the PC here.

Ok... next trial... importing a classical music CD of Schumann Etudes for the Piano into iTunes for Mac and iTunes for Windows.

ALL SETTINGS WERE IDENTICLE:

MP3, 192K, etc. etc.

Windows PC = 3m12s
Mac = 3m24s

Ok... no real difference here....

Now... two last tests...

1... Import the 215 Files from the imported Canon download into iMovie on the Mac, and Windows MovieMaker on the PC.

Windows PC = 3m24s
Mac = 1m58s

Clearly, the striped hard disk here helped the Mac. It D E S T R O Y E D the PC.

Next, import all the songs we just ripped into the movie program. Here, the Mac suffered due to the poor interface design of not being able to import more than one song at a time... where the Windows program can import as many at one time as you want.

Windows PC = 0m29s
Mac = 5m13s

It takes a while to import an MP3 file into iMovie... they should fix that... I think it's a program design flaw.

And the final test...

Export file as a 24fps 1500k 640x480 Movie...

This was just priceless... and issues like this is why I took a stab at the Mac in the first place...

THE WINDOWS PC KEPT SPONTANEOUSLY REBOOTING ABOUT 10 MINUTES INTO THE ENCODING PROCESS hahahaha... was pretty funny. Don't know how long the Mac took... never bothered timing it... since I couldn't get the PC to encode it... figured that would speak for itself.

So... as you can see, I am NOT a troll. I have been a long-time Mac advocate... but I'm still not happy with the fact that APPLE lets their machines languish for their PRO LINE.

And those who haven't TRIED THIS AT HOME just have no clue why I'm upset.

I can promise you it has NOTHING to do with my being a troll or not supporting apple.

However, I am returning this pile of crap.

I DO HOPE that Apple releases updated Towers before I do. If they do, I'll return it for one of the new ones.

If they don't... It's back to PEE CEE world for me.

Besides, I can always get my OS X fix on my wife's 12" Powerbook.

Which is for sale for $600 if anyone wants it

It has 1.2G of ram

 

[g0gie]

Okay so no one buy a Mac until the x86 Mactels are released. Got ya! Okay everyone you heard it here all Macs suck until the x86 switch is complete!

again i would like to reiterate- that macs do NOT suck, but they are NOT up to todays standards. Just look at the memory speed of todays computers versus that of the powrmac and powrbook - which easily double the speed at a lower voltage. If you need a mac, then by all means by one before the switch, its still going to do what you need it to. But YES you are gonna get a lot more for your money if you wait until the x86 switch, or at least a MAJOR update in the current PPC line (such as the 970mp's). And yes OSX for intel CPU's was OFFICIALLY released- at least for developers - which ARE the same versions that will be goin into consumer computers when x86 computers come out. So what would be different as far as performace? OSX should still run as fast if not FASTER due to updates. k thx

 

[WRXHokie]

So the professional artist that needs a Power Mac G5 shouldn't buy 1 now because you say they need an upgrade?

Depends on the circumstances of course. But if he can wait, why should he buy outdated hardware at a premium price? Would you buy a 2 year old car for sticker price? You have to be smart about it... thats all.