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palusami said:
man, i just bought my pb a few months ago. i have very little will power when it comes to apple products and may have to buy the latest upgrade!:p

I wish you well in your quest. MWSF is two months away, so we will see what we shall see. My wife purchased a new 15" PowerBook one year ago. Don't have any plans of replacement for another two years.
 
Like many others, I had the PB vs iBook dilemma. I had just bought my wife a 12" ibook, two weeks before the upgraded iBooks.
Was I a little peeved? Why yes I was, thanks for asking. But the speed bump was minimal I guess (if you can call 20% minimal). IT was the addition of the airport card that really steamed me. But I got my iBook from Amazon with a $150 rebate and the airport card cost $79 so I guess it's not all that bad for me.

But I needed a new laptop too. My trusty Pismo is a worthy computer in spite of it's age and processor speed. But I've got a gig of Ram in it and upgraded the HD a couple years ago, so it's been humming right along for me. Truth be told, I'm already having second thoughts about selling it. But I've got a buyer for $650 so I'm thinking nows as good a time as any to sell it. It's a bit over 3 years old and we all know about laptop life spans.

So since the iBooks got upgraded, I finally could not justify the $1000 price difference between the 14" loaded iBook and the 15" PB. I mean the 14" iBook now includes a Superdrive which was previously a $200 option and the 1.3 GHz processor is not too shabby. And Amazon still has the $150 rebate on it so for my money the 14" iBook is my choice.

I actually would have bought the 12" iBook but my failing eyes just couldn't deal with the small screen size. I'm hoping that the 14" iBook will alleviate that issue.

Anway, I'd have loved to get the PB but in the end, I just couldn't justify the extra $1000 in light of the iBook upgrade.
 
thatwendigo said:
I don't think you really understand what I was talking about, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're an ESL (English Second Language) poster.

So, with that in mind, let me try to explain this to you in a bit more simple terms, so that we'll be more likely to reach some kind of common point. When I speak of modular graphics, you wouldn't be gaining in physical maximum resolution because the dot pitch of the actual LCD wouldn't change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use faster GPU cores. For example, I have a CRT on my desk in the other room that's now hooked up to a dual 1.8 G5 with a 9600XT. It used to be hooked up to a single 1.4 G4 with a GeForce 3, and now it's very, very much faster and better at redrawing the screeen even though the physical monitor I use hasn't changed.

If the PowerBook were to incorporate something similar to what Alienware is doing with the modular PCI graphics cards in laptops, you could speed up your performance without buying a new machine. If you think your graphics are too slow, you'd buy a new card and remove the old one from the machine so that you could slot in the replacement. It's just like what you do with upgrading a desktop machine, only it's starting to be possible in portables.

Does that make it clearer?



For the most part, 64-bit computing is really only beneficial to the scientific and engineering community. They use enough specialized, high-end systems and math that the investment is worth it in terms of memory (using more than 4GB per process) and the overhead for using larger pointers. Also, since they're likely to use integers that are 64 bits, it saves them and makes things more efficient because they're not carrying out two 32-bit operations in the place of one 64-bit.

This is unlikely to be true in the consumer space for some time, but the bitness of processors is being used as a way to push the update cycle while the gigahertz race flattens out.



I could be mistaken about the implementation in Tiger, but database-driven file systems have been done long before 64-bit addressing was really an issue. The reason that Spotlight works the way it does is thanks to a database and the journaled file system, which work together to have fast pointers to the location of multiple kinds of data. Instead of searching the entire hard drive, it merely scans the table.

Thus, it has nothing to do with the chip or the OS, per se.



The shell is the least of Apple's worries, in this case. Everything you just dismissed as secondary is the primary concern when designed a professional system - processor, storage, and I/O. Especially in the case of a laptop, you need something power efficient, since power efficiency leads to heat efficiency, which in turn leads to a lessened need for cooling. This is one reason that Apple has stuck with the G4 for so long, and why Intel moved to the Pentium-M for their high-end portables.

A fast, efficient 32-bit processor will be better for a portable than a 64-bit one that's far hotter at lower clocks. It's that simple, unless there's something really bizarre done with the design.


It's known as a MXM or AXIOM module-but there are currently no AGP versions of the M28/GF go 6800, and Apple would need a G4/G5 based PCI express chipset to use it.
 
Benj said:
I'm not important enough to print new posts, but all of this looks good:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0411ppc.html

So, better G4 (?) early in 2005 and a bit more on the dual core and a portable G5.

Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

Squire
 
Squire said:
Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

Squire
The Christmas shopping season is important, it's better to introduce new stuff right after Christmas to nail the people with spare cash.

But it's also important to actually ship product to people who want it under the tree.

Anything other than a speedbump would most likely mean a crimp in supply.

But there are no real low-power versions of the 90nm PPC970 yet, Apple really needs one in order to ship a decently fast G5 PowerBook.

Some think the PPC970GX may improve yield or be more of the same old problems with the 970FX... it's getting close enough that we'll see what happens next summer.

Of course Apple may elect to cram a G5 into the PowerBook like they did the original G4, and suffer with it until the low-power version comes along -- or simply go with Freescale, who may be able to deliver the next gen chip on time.
 
From macOSXrumors:
http://www.macosxrumors.com/articles/?p=96

"Sources indicated that the new G4 processors that will be used in the next Powerbook line are based on the MPC7448 specifications and will run at clock speeds as high as 1.4Ghz for the entry and mid-level models and 1.6Ghz for high end models.

These new 0.09nm processors will feature 1Mb of cache and the system bus will reach 200MHz. The new Powerbooks should deliver 5 to 10% higher overall performance than the current PowerBook line while their processor will generate use less power and, by the way, should generate less heat."

5-10% isnt alot, especially after such a long wait for an update. Perhaps they'll offer other hardware improvements too, such as more RAM, better graphics cards etc.
 
Squire said:
Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

Squire

Thanks Squire. ;) I still stand by that, and if I end up being wrong, hey, there's a first time for everything.... :p :cool:

If Apple decides to go with relatively minor updates for the next PB (i.e. marginal speed bump, no G5 or dual core G4, just RAM, video card, price drop, bigger HD, other features, etc.) then sure, perhaps MWSF will give us a new PB. But for a significantly revamped PowerBook with a G5/Dual Core G4, i.e. a significant upgrade, I still say by the time they're announced, promised a shipping date, then miss that shipping date by a month or so, the consumers will not have those PowerBooks in their hands until closer to summer 2005.

Only time will tell... :cool:
 
One Other Thing...

One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:
 
~Shard~ said:
One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:

Your candor is very much appreciated ~Shard~. If you are correct the wait for a new PowerBook could even be longer than the 2.5 G5. Wonder if there will be delays also?
 
wdlove said:
Your candor is very much appreciated ~Shard~. If you are correct the wait for a new PowerBook could even be longer than the 2.5 G5. Wonder if there will be delays also?

Thanks wdlove, I always appreciate your comments as well. I would really like for Apple to wow us with a G5 PowerBook at MWSF, shipping immediately, but I just don't see it happening. As a result, the PowerBook line may not see a significant update for another 6 months. A minor update, yes, but major? It's just not in my crystal ball... :cool:
 
With Apple clearly lying between they teeth, it is clear as day that PowerBook G5 is up for intro at MWSF 05. :)

The dual core G4 chips will make they way into the iBook line just as the G3 chips lingered in the iBook for some time before getting a G4 and the PM getting a G5.

This is history all over again and you can count on that. :)

What would be ironic is if a dual core G4 iBook is faster than a 1.8-2.0GHz PowerBook G5. :eek: ;) :)
 
~Shard~ said:
One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:

You are forgetting that the iMac G5 has its PSU housed in the casing. That should reduce its weight and size down on a PowerBook G5.

SATA 2.5 inch HDD also smaller should reduce the size down.

Battery power I read sometime back that Apple was looking for a better vendor or more vendors for better battery for they iPod line maybe it also included the PowerBook G5 in testing phases.

The iMac G5 was released before the PowerBook G5 which means the PowerBook G5 still have a little more time to fine tune, and IBM new low powered G5 chips should also allow it to run cooler and consume less power.

Dimms are smaller for laptops anyhow so that is out of the way as well, and the optical mobile drives are now running at around 8x.

They have already proved that they can squeeze an lcd in a thin frame as with the PowerBook G4 AL.

I say it most likely can be done, shrink the AE card some more, with Apples keep tooting its Great Engineers I feel they can pull it off. If not its time to sell your Apple shares. :)

Remember the iMac G5 only has a thicker case because it has to hold in place the entire computer to the stand. Plus the acetate shell is also adding to it size, plus the iMac G5 screen is thinner than the frame that is provided. If you own or have seen an iMac G5 in flesh you would know what I am talking about.

In actual thickness I would say the iMac G5 though advertised as 1.99 inches thick would in actuality be ~1.5 - 1.7 inches thick just as thick as the PowerBook G3 Pismo. I do not see this as a step down however a step ahead and in the right direction while they can reduce the overall thickness when the G5 matures more down the road, do we remember the PowerBook G4 Ti. :)

Heat issues you can count on it, even the current iBook and PowerBook G4 have heat issues. So I do not see what all the fuss is all about. :cool:
 
m a y a said:
I say it most likely can be done, shrink the AE card some more, with Apples keep tooting its Great Engineers I feel they can pull it off. If not its time to sell your Apple shares. :)

Seeing as all the iBooks now have Airport Extreme installed, I think Apple will work to make the chip smaller (maybe the size of a compactflash card or something) and then solder it directly onto the mobo. Think about how small those wifi cards for PDA's are.

Apple cant make all iBooks have wifi without doing the same for PB's...

/asif
 
m a y a said:
In actual thickness I would say the iMac G5 though advertised as 1.99 inches thick would in actuality be ~1.5 - 1.7 inches thick just as thick as the PowerBook G3 Pismo. I do not see this as a step down however a step ahead and in the right direction while they can reduce the overall thickness when the G5 matures more down the road, do we remember the PowerBook G4 Ti. :)

Heat issues you can count on it, even the current iBook and PowerBook G4 have heat issues. So I do not see what all the fuss is all about. :cool:

i think there would be a market for a pismo-sized g5 pb... for lots of people, that is not an unreasonable size at all.
 
drsuse said:
i think there would be a market for a pismo-sized g5 pb... for lots of people, that is not an unreasonable size at all.

Judging from a lot of people on MacRumors (and elsewhere) I think there would be a market for any type of G5 PowerBook right now. ;)
 
Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!
 
propropro said:
Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!

I would advise waiting until after MWSF before making a decision and then from there decide which laptop is going to fulfill your needs.
If the last PB updates are anything to go by then the price of the top of the range remains very similar, my Rev A TiBook was $3000 and my rev B 17 inch AlBook was virtually the same price two and a half years later. Whether that will be the case if/when a G5 PB is announced is open to speculation but I think Apple know well enough that they could price themselves out of the market if it were to cost much more than $3000.
Whatever you finally decide on I feel sure you will enjoy it, welcome.
 
propropro said:
Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!

Apple has been very good to its customers. They continue to update their products as expected. Then the price remains about the same and the purchaser gets a higher quality Mac.
 
wdlove said:
Apple has been very good to its customers. They continue to update their products as expected. Then the price remains about the same and the purchaser gets a higher quality Mac.

I agree. Look at the G5 iMac as a perfect example. The tech spec's are superior to the G4 variety, and they are priced favorably as well. I'd expect Apple to do no less when the new major rev to the PowerBook line is introduced.
 
powermac666 said:
I agree. Look at the G5 iMac as a perfect example. The tech spec's are superior to the G4 variety, and they are priced favorably as well. I'd expect Apple to do no less when the new major rev to the PowerBook line is introduced.

I agree - I believe Apple is at the stage where they could lower the price on the PowerBooks slightly as well as give them an overhaul. G5 iMac is the perfect example. :cool:
 
Thank you very much for the answers. I agree the iMac G5 is a good example of a nicely priced new product, but as I am a Mac newbie, I didn't know if it's always the same way when new products appear. But there are two things I'm sure about: first, the mac community is great ;) , and second, I can't be wrong if I buy a Mac (this I've learnt after using PCs for a long long time, too much time)
 
propropro said:
Thank you very much for the answers. I agree the iMac G5 is a good example of a nicely priced new product, but as I am a Mac newbie, I didn't know if it's always the same way when new products appear. But there are two things I'm sure about: first, the mac community is great ;) , and second, I can't be wrong if I buy a Mac (this I've learnt after using PCs for a long long time, too much time)

good choice.

my dad has always used macs, i've owned two pcs because all the computers in my school were pcs and i was worried about compatibility, which turned out to never really be a big problem. i've been borrowing a 600mhz g3 imac from my school for video editing for nearly 2 yrs, and finally a couple months ago decided to start using it as my main computer, with an external monitor. couldn't be happier. i will probably give it back by the time i graduate in june, i'll be getting a 15" powerbook as soon as the new ones ship, regardless of whether it's a g4 or g5 or whatever. the current ones are certainly fast enough, just don't want to get left behind if i buy right before an update.
 
VideoShooter said:
I'm wondering what you guys think...
snip

I'm not in an incredible hurry.

Question is... How long after MWSF will the newest Pb's be available?

I'll use this laptop for atleast two years and use it for video editing quite a bit.

Wait. We expect some mention of the G5 PBs or to see revamped G4s.

As for delivery, who knows? But they could be ready to go straight away of they are revamped G4s.

Any new machine will be better in some regards which should have a positive impact on video work...100+ gig HDD, better speed/fsb, TV tuner, better battery life, and maybe even better screens
 
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