No Retina Display in Next-Generation iMac?

[faroZ06]

Security updates. While Microsoft still issues them for Windows XP, Apple doesn't for anything before 10.6.

Connecting a 10.4 system to the Internet is a security risk with all the left over vulnerabilities that Apple hasn't patched in that version, but in later versions.

---

If Mac viruses were to come about in the future, I doubt people would go and make them for Tiger. If anything, they'd be incompatible with my Motorola processor 😀

 

[AidenShaw]

If Mac viruses were to come about in the future, I doubt people would go and make them for Tiger. If anything, they'd be incompatible with my Motorola processor 😀

Two things:

1. Malware is much more than just viruses
2. Java, javascript, and other scripting malware can be cross-architecture, so an antique CPU isn't protection.

Remove the blinders....

 

[barnettemd]

How many macs currently have two TB ports right next to each other whose GPUs can push that many pixels? I don't see Apple designing a Retina Thunderbolt Display only for those machines, nor do I see them runnings cables from all over the place, far too cluttered and inelegant.

Thunderbolt has a theoretical output of 100 Gbit/s with optical cabling. Apple's current Thunderbolt chips support optical cables, so all we have to wait for is for optical cables to become affordable. The first production cables were introduced late April.

All Ivy Bridge Macs at least have Intel HD, which can supposedly drive 4096x4096 displays. Most likely we'll see retina desktop displays as soon as they are available and "affordable." Bandwidth and graphics shouldn't be too big of a concern for recent Macs.

 

[barnettemd]

You're changing the debate, that's not what we're talking about. Don't move the goal posts on me.

----------



Are you implying that correlation implies causation ? Maybe people don't stick with older versions of OS X precisely because Apple drops support ?

Maybe XP is current - 2 (ie, Windows XP is to Windows 7 what Leopard is to Lion) and that affects adoption ?

Maybe enterprise customers don't want to migrate off because of application/hardware support, a hurdle Apple doesn't quite face in light of poor enterprise support ?

Maybe...

Apple drops support faster than Microsoft does. That's it. Don't try to move goalposts on me also (what is it with the goalpost moving ? Facts were presented, they do not support your argument, move on).

For the desktop OS, that's true. But none of the current WP7 devices will be updated to WP8. Apple still supports the iPhone 3GS with software updates and it's three years old. The Lumia, one of the flagship WP7 devices, won't be updated to WP8.

 

[pipa]

I just sold my iMac to make way for new pro retina

 

[AidenShaw]

For the desktop OS, that's true. But none of the current WP7 devices will be updated to WP8. Apple still supports the iPhone 3GS with software updates and it's three years old. The Lumia, one of the flagship WP7 devices, won't be updated to WP8.

So?

Upgrades are important for a desktop/laptop/workstation.

The phone operations model is different - because phones are assumed to have a lifetime of two years.

Most companies never upgrade the phone OS, and it's not a big deal. The phone gets some bug fixes if necessary - but it spends its two year lifespan doing everything that it did when it was new.

After two years, one gets a new phone with new features. Fine.

Compared to Apple's partial support of new IOS features on older Iphones, I think that the other guys have a good model.

 

[Starship77]

Sonnet are already offering external Thunderbolt-driven boxes that can take one or two PCIe cards. Sit down and move away from any fragile objects before you look up the price, though. The only thing that will bring those devices down in price is demand and volume.

As for the iMacs, isn't the best guess (in the absence of other information) that they'll do exactly what they did with the MacBook Pro range?

I.e. bump the existing lineup to Ivy Bridge and USB3 and release a new, slimline SSD-only "retina iMac" with no optical drive or Firewire and only solid-state storage - possibly with a 21" display if 27" retina is not feasible.

That lets them put a toe in the water to see how people react to the design changes.

Thunderbolt might be fast when comparing to USB or Firewire, but it's really nowhere even close to what internal PCIe can do. If you connect a PCIe through one of those adapters it will be CONSIDERABLY slower than a direct PICe connection on the motherboard. And by considerably I mean a LOT:

Thundebolt: 10 Gb/s = 1,280 MB/s

PCIe v3.0: 128 GT/s = 16,385 MB/s

See the difference? It's 16 times faster because it can use 16 simultaneous connections or "lanes" while thunderbolt has only 1 up and 1 down. Connecting a PCIe card thru Thunderbolt is the same as a 1X PCIe slot. But wait…

PCIe v4.0: 128 GT/s PER LANE = 16,385 MB/s on a single lane…

Yes, in the future, that'll be the speed of Thunderbolt, probably… But PCIe will still be able to use 16 lanes or maybe even more, so it will always be faster…


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

 

[linux2mac]

Apple still supports the iPhone 3GS with software updates and it's three years old.

How is it that the iPhone 3GS, which came out in 2009, has greater enterprise adoption today than the premier Android phones?

*scratches head*



http://lowendmac.com/inews/12ios/0504.html#1

 

[faroZ06]

Two things:

1. Malware is much more than just viruses
2. Java, javascript, and other scripting malware can be cross-architecture, so an antique CPU isn't protection.

Remove the blinders....

I'm not afraid of trojans, just viruses. I'm not going to get tricked into installing stuff.

Also, the new Java VMs are not compatible with older processors. My iMac G5 has Java SE 5 or 4 I think. To be honest, I don't know much about JavaScript though.

 

[linux2mac]

I'm not afraid of trojans, just viruses. I'm not going to get tricked into installing stuff.

Also, the new Java VMs are not compatible with older processors. My iMac G5 has Java SE 5 or 4 I think. To be honest, I don't know much about JavaScript though.

Since converting to Mac in 2009, I have not had any viruses or malware. And I don't run any anti-virus software on my Macs. Can't say the same for my Windows days. Norton lost money when I switched to Mac. 😀

 

[RBR2]

Thunderbolt might be fast when comparing to USB or Firewire, but it's really nowhere even close to what internal PCIe can do. If you connect a PCIe through one of those adapters it will be CONSIDERABLY slower than a direct PICe connection on the motherboard. And by considerably I mean a LOT:

Thundebolt: 10 Gb/s = 1,280 MB/s

PCIe v3.0: 128 GT/s = 16,385 MB/s

See the difference? It's 16 times faster because it can use 16 simultaneous connections or "lanes" while thunderbolt has only 1 up and 1 down. Connecting a PCIe card thru Thunderbolt is the same as a 1X PCIe slot. But wait…

PCIe v4.0: 128 GT/s PER LANE = 16,385 MB/s on a single lane…

Yes, in the future, that'll be the speed of Thunderbolt, probably… But PCIe will still be able to use 16 lanes or maybe even more, so it will always be faster…


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

Though I have no numbers to quote, an internal PCIe connection should have less latency than a TB connected item because it does not have to go through two TB chips, be processed and then be passed back through them again. There is also the matter of distance which is obviously much shorter for an internal PCIe slot.

 

[KnightWRX]

For the desktop OS, that's true. But none of the current WP7 devices will be updated to WP8. Apple still supports the iPhone 3GS with software updates and it's three years old. The Lumia, one of the flagship WP7 devices, won't be updated to WP8.

Moving goal posts again... We're talking about supporting software, not device support. IE, if Microsoft drops updates for WP7, you'll have a point. Apple doesn't ship fixes to iOS 4 right now, in fact, as soon as 5 hit, 4 got dropped off.

Microsoft promised WP7.8 for devices that won't run WP8. Apple drops iOS support as soon as the new version comes out.

So haaaaaard to stick to a topic, so hard not to move the goal posts. It's as if they're made out of gold and people want to just bring them home...

 

[Fwink!]

I think the barrier to larger Retina Class Displays at this time is adoption of Thunderbolt. I predict that it will require a Thunderbolt connection to use them. So, waiting on peripheral adapter manufacturers to ramp up and get costs down.

Look for a Retina Air next. The Apple Tv could presumably be a 4k model, which would put off introduction for a year and a half or more. Though a 2nd generation introducing Cinema class resolution won't work as a sale's plan due to the lower turnover for Television purchases.

IF Apple can develop a seamless iPhone/iPad/iOS/iTV transition. With the roundabout effect and future integration of iOS interfacing the desktop/laptop cycle should refresh in 3.25 years, just in time for the "Next Big Thing".

 

[KnightWRX]

[*]Java, javascript, and other scripting malware can be cross-architecture, so an antique CPU isn't protection.

Let's see what choices a malware author could use on OS X :

$ python --version
Python 2.7.1
$ ruby --version
ruby 1.8.7 (2011-12-28 patchlevel 357) [i686-darwin11]
$ osascript -e "Applescript's version as string"
2.2.1
$ bash --version
GNU bash, version 3.2.48(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin11)
Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
$ tcsh --version
tcsh 6.17.00 (Astron) 2009-07-10 (x86_64-apple-darwin) options wide,nls,dl,al,kan,sm,rh,color,filec
$ ksh --version
  version         sh (AT&T Research) 1993-12-28 s+
$ perl --version

This is perl 5, version 12, subversion 3 (v5.12.3) built for darwin-multi-2level

I'm sure there's more...

----------

If Mac viruses were to come about in the future, I doubt people would go and make them for Tiger. If anything, they'd be incompatible with my Motorola processor 😀

Viruses are not the only reason to keep a system up to date on security fixes. 🙄

 

[gnasher729]

I think the barrier to larger Retina Class Displays at this time is adoption of Thunderbolt. I predict that it will require a Thunderbolt connection to use them. So, waiting on peripheral adapter manufacturers to ramp up and get costs down.

Excuse me, but what kind of connector is an iMac using today to attach its display? Answer: None. It's built into the iMac, and connected directly to the graphics card. So what kind of connector would an iMac with Retina display be using? None. It would be built into the iMac, and connected directly to the graphics card.

 

[KnightWRX]

Excuse me, but what kind of connector is an iMac using today to attach its display? Answer: None. It's built into the iMac, and connected directly to the graphics card. So what kind of connector would an iMac with Retina display be using? None. It would be built into the iMac, and connected directly to the graphics card.

I suspect it is using an internal DP signal, probably DP 1.1a. The panel still requires standard signalling from the graphics adapter, even in laptops and AIOs.

But still, Thunderbolt isn't that great, it's still using DP 1.1a, whereas DP 1.2 has been out there for a while now, offering twice the pixel pushing power of TB.

 

[SirHaakon]

I agree with those who say that Retina displays are unnecessary on iMacs, I'm not sure they're even necessary on Macbook Pros.
The whole retina thing is precisely for devices with SMALL SCREENS.

Just because you have poor eyesight doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm not afraid of trojans, just viruses. I'm not going to get tricked into installing stuff.

The Flashback Trojan for Apple OS was a drive-by - one could be infected without clicking [OK] or supplying the root password.

Don't you read any of the stories here? Do you only write?

Also, the new Java VMs are not compatible with older processors. My iMac G5 has Java SE 5 or 4 I think. To be honest, I don't know much about JavaScript though.

To be honest, I'm not sure that you know much about Java.

Java apps are architecture-independent intermediate code ("byte-code") streams. If the byte-code stream from the website is compatible with your old JVM, it will run. The website doesn't download a new JVM to your system (unless it prompts and you say yes).

It doesn't matter if your JVM is out-of-date - if the malware is compatible with your JVM it will run.

Just because you don't download and run "porn" that's delivered in .EXE files doesn't mean that you are safe. Or maybe you do watch porn from .EXE files....

 

[Metal Dice]

Because obviously you understand what it means ? 110 PPI on the 1440p 27" display (2560x1440) isn't as high as you like to think. 😉

Actually, yes it is, when you take the viewing distance into consideration.
Take a look at this chart.

When the viewing distance is taken into consideration, the 27" iMac is almost comparable to the Retina Macbook Pro (1% difference). Let me try to be even more clear.
If the new Macbook Pro display is considered retina, then so should the 27" iMac display.
In other words, a doubling of the 27" iMac pixel count would be overkill.

.

 

[Fraaaa]

Yeah because SONY is a great reference if you're trying to make a not-so-overpriced point :/

Asus G55VW-RS71

Ivy Bridge Core i7 2.3
Nvidia GeForceGTX 660m w/2gb DDR5
15.6" LED 1920x1080
8GB DDR3
256gb SSD (SATA III)
OPTICAL DRIVE: Yes
SEX APPEAL: No.

BUT

$1588 USD.

Max out the RAM to 32gb 1600 DDR3 and the price is still only $1907.99 USD.

http://www.pro-star.com/index.cfm?m...id=20074624&ramid=80146323&batteryid=10130400

I can't stand it when people compare the most expensive thing on the market to the second most expensive thing on the market.

It's like saying "You can't call a Bentley overpriced if you compare it to a Rolls."

The guy I quote was saying that the rMBP was the most expensive laptop he has seen, and I was showing that there are other more expensive.

The comparison with the vaio was at the same price point, the vaio was offering less. And is true that you found a something as powerful as the rMBP for less. However, the retina display how much worth? Your Asus is twice as much as thick and weight nearly as twice as much. I found the G52SW to weight 3.78Kg against 2.02Kg(couldn't find yours as there isn't in the uk store).
How much worth for you the engineering to make it as thin and light? Sex appeal? I don't know how much the Asus hold in battery life.

So, expensive? Yes. Overpriced? No.

Beside I believe that Asus worth the money you pay as much the rMBP worth the money you pay, as both have two different designs for two different use.

You're changing the debate, that's not what we're talking about. Don't move the goal posts on me.

----------



Are you implying that correlation implies causation ? Maybe people don't stick with older versions of OS X precisely because Apple drops support ?

Maybe XP is current - 2 (ie, Windows XP is to Windows 7 what Leopard is to Lion) and that affects adoption ?

Maybe enterprise customers don't want to migrate off because of application/hardware support, a hurdle Apple doesn't quite face in light of poor enterprise support ?

Maybe...

Apple drops support faster than Microsoft does. That's it. Don't try to move goalposts on me also (what is it with the goalpost moving ? Facts were presented, they do not support your argument, move on).

I didn't mean to shift the topic.

Apple and Microsoft have two different goal in my opinion.

Microsoft holds on to its legacy, while Apple wants to move onwards.

I do believe that backward compatibility, security updates and general support for older software/hardware is important, but new technology born and older dies constantly in IT.
Microsoft wants support on to XP because a quarter of their user uses it? I applaud them for it, but how long can they keep going on? You cannot support it forever.

 

[KnightWRX]

When the viewing distance is taken into consideration, the 27" iMac is almost comparable to the Retina Macbook Pro (1% difference). Let me try to be even more clear.

That chart doesn't have the Retina MBP on it though. The 1% you're getting is the High Res MBP 15", the one with a 1680x1050 screen.

Oups uh ? 😉

 

[iBug2]

Actually, yes it is, when you take the viewing distance into consideration.
Take a look at this chart.
Image

When the viewing distance is taken into consideration, the 27" iMac is almost comparable to the Retina Macbook Pro (1% difference). Let me try to be even more clear.
If the new Macbook Pro display is considered retina, then so should the 27" iMac display.
In other words, a doubling of the 27" iMac pixel count would be overkill.

.

Sorry but who uses their 17" MBP from 26 inches? I use my 30" ACD from 26 inches and certainly my 17" from a much closer distance. I think those "standard using distance" numbers are a bit off.

 

[Metal Dice]

That chart doesn't have the Retina MBP on it though. The 1% you're getting is the High Res MBP 15", the one with a 1680x1050 screen.

Oups uh ? 😉

Yup, my bad.
Nonetheless the iMac is still "up there" in terms of pixel density when the viewing distance is taken into consideration. Still no reason to double the pixel count. Again, overkill.

 

[Ciclismo]

Whilst people are arguing about hardware capabilities, I'm still waiting for someone to answer how much a 4k+ 27" panel will cost? Considering that the Eizo 30" is over $30k, I think that price might be the greatest hurdle for an iMac.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yup, my bad.
Nonetheless the iMac is still "up there" in terms of pixel density when the viewing distance is taken into consideration. Still no reason to double the pixel count. Again, overkill.

Might be. Have you seen the high res MBP vs the Retina MBP to say it really is though or are you basing all of this off some chart ? 😉