No Titanium? Disappointed?

[doach]

Are you disappointed that there will be no Titanium pro models this year?

Are you tired of the weight and wish they would use a more premium metal since it is a pro model. 7000 series aluminum is a far more premium metal than SS. Most think otherwise. I haven’t used a pro model since the 11 pro due to the weight. I prefer the more premium 7000 series metal used in the non pro models.

Stainless steel serves little purpose in a phone, zero actually. The 7000 series aluminum is durable enough for almost anyone outside a hydraulic press. There is a reason Samsung, Oneplus, and every phone manufacturer other than Apple use it. Weight. Apple just ignores this because their Apple.
Aluminum also conducts heat way better. Stainless steel not so much. Hardness is closer than people think. Scratch resistance will be similar to both. Benefit of steel you can buff them out, aluminum no. There are benefits to using steel, I just think 7000 aluminum has more. I would prefer they use it in the pro models as it is very similar to Titanium.
I have a stainless steel Apple Watch but I like the added weight and the sapphire. In a phone not so much. Gotta love Apples marketing.

7075-T6 Aluminum vs. Annealed AISI 304 :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

 

[sjperformance]

Not really. This is not important to me honestly.

 

[russell_314]

It's rumors... You can't be disappointed by a rumor. Who knows maybe the "Pro" Apple Watch will be in titanium

 

[eyoungren]

Are you disappointed that there will be no Titanium pro models this year?

Are you tired of the weight and wish they would use a more premium metal since it is a pro model. 7000 series aluminum is a far more premium metal than SS. Most think otherwise. I haven’t used a pro model since the 11 pro due to the weight. I prefer the more premium 7000 series metal used in the non pro models.

Stainless steel serves little purpose in a phone, zero actually. The 7000 series aluminum is durable enough for almost anyone outside a hydraulic press. There is a reason Samsung, Oneplus, and every phone manufacturer other than Apple use it. Weight. Apple just ignores this because their Apple.
Aluminum also conducts heat way better. Stainless steel not so much. Hardness is closer than people think. Scratch resistance will be similar to both. Benefit of steel you can buff them out, aluminum no. There are benefits to using steel, I just think 7000 aluminum has more. I have a stainless steel Apple Watch but I like the added weight and the sapphire. In a phone not so much. Gotta love Apples marketing.

7075-T6 Aluminum vs. Annealed AISI 304 :: MakeItFrom.com

www.makeitfrom.com

I had a Titanium PowerBook G4 from 2001 to about 2015. Bent easily, scratched and flaked easily.

Don't really want Titanium in my phone.

Doesn't matter anyway, I have another 6 months before my 11 Pro Max is paid off.

 

[doach]

I had a Titanium PowerBook G4 from 2001 to about 2015. Bent easily, scratched and flaked easily.

Don't really want Titanium in my phone.

Doesn't matter anyway, I have another 6 months before my 11 Pro Max is paid off.

There are different grades of Titanium. Titanium is stronger than steel, more scratch resistant and lighter. Those don’t appeal to you? SS is cheap, heavy. You prefer that?

 

[RRC]

I just wish they made the sides matte on all models, whatever the material used.

 

[5105973]

I would have found Titanium interesting as a lighter option, but I can’t say I’m too disappointed. Lol I’ve got enough of it in my body, so I hope it’s durable!

 

[goldenarm007]

I would have found Titanium interesting as a lighter option, but I can’t say I’m too disappointed. Lol I’ve got enough of it in my body, so I hope it’s durable!

Valerian steel lol

 

[BugeyeSTI]

I've owned aluminum and stainless steel iPhones. I prefer the stainless steel for several reasons and the extra weight doesn't bother me at all. When it comes to the Apple Watch, I prefer the aluminum or the titanium because lighter weight is important to me when being active especially when considering how long I have it strapped to my wrist..

 

[The Game 161]

No it goes in a case

 

[erikkfi]

Titanium reminds me of 90s watches in the worst way. I really don't like it or the mirror-finish steel, which looks chintzy in person and is basically a CSI fingerprint duster's dream come true (although it looks great in product photos). I know Apple didn't mean it to come out this way but I genuinely prefer their pitted aluminum finish.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

I just wish they made the sides matte on all models, whatever the material used.

Second. The aluminum sides feel so much more premium than the SS just because of the finish. If they can get that same feeling with Titanium I’d love it.

 

[eyoungren]

There are different grades of Titanium. Titanium is stronger than steel, more scratch resistant and lighter. Those don’t appeal to you? SS is cheap, heavy. You prefer that?

Whatever the metal the iPhone 5 was made of, anodized properly and flat sided.

PS. I prefer a little weight to my phones. I don't use my phones like most people do (I have multiple computers and other devices around me 24/7 for other things) so I'm not holding it a lot.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Current iphone pros are heavy af because of their stainless stell frame

I am definitely disappointed

 

[eyoungren]

Current iphone pros are heavy af because of their stainless stell frame

I am definitely disappointed

I'm cool with the weight - in fact, a bit heavier would be nice. I don't care however for the balance. My 11P Pro Max is top heavy and not in a good way.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

I'm cool with the weight - in fact, a bit heavier would be nice. I don't care however for the balance. My 11P Pro Max is top heavy and not in a good way.

I daily drive the 11pm and it is indeed painful .but I tried using the 12pm for a week and it was worse .
To each their own . But I miss my samsung s20fe lightness and 20:9 ratio

 

[doach]

I'm cool with the weight - in fact, a bit heavier would be nice. I don't care however for the balance. My 11P Pro Max is top heavy and not in a good way.

Why heavier? I live in Florida and carrying the pro in a pocket with shorts is like carrying around a steel pipe.

 

[doach]

Second. The aluminum sides feel so much more premium than the SS just because of the finish. If they can get that same feeling with Titanium I’d love it.

Thats because the 7075 Aerospace grade aluminum Apple uses is a more premium metal. Actually its not even close.

 

[eyoungren]

Why heavier? I live in Florida and carrying the pro in a pocket with shorts is like carrying around a steel pipe.

I live in Phoenix and am in Dickies carpenter shorts most of the time, and Dickies carpenter pants in the winter. Denim, lots of pockets. My phone goes in the left rear pocket. Never had a problem. If I sit down, my phone goes somewhere else - I don't sit on it.

Heavier, just 'cause I like the feel of it in my hand. Not asking Apple to haul around a brick, but if I swing my hand around I want to feel where it's going because the weight is telling me by resistance where it is. I don't use cases so spatial awareness of my phone is important to me.

Also, for whatever reason, if something is light, I tend to lose my grip on it. I get careless I guess and stop paying attention because I don't feel the weight of a thing. That's all me.

 

[JPack]

Disappointed? No, because the Titanium rumors were borderline ridiculous from a manufacturing and materials science perspective.

Titanium is notoriously difficult to machine, not something that Apple can manufacture 30 to 50 million units of each quarter. Most importantly, it has poor thermal conductivity. A15 is already a 7W chip on N5P with 40% throttling observed. A16 and future chips will undoubtedly be hotter.

 

[golfnut1982]

My pants and shirt pockets are pleading with me.

 

[doach]

Disappointed? No, because the Titanium rumors were borderline ridiculous from a manufacturing and materials science perspective.

Titanium is notoriously difficult to machine, not something that Apple can manufacture 30 to 50 million units of each quarter. Most importantly, it has poor thermal conductivity. A15 is already a 7W chip on N5P with 40% throttling observed. A16 and future chips will undoubtedly be hotter.

Actually, no it’s not. Machining operations of titanium alloys in the past were more difficult, this is true. due to its relatively high tensile strength, low ductile yield, 50% lower modulus of elasticity (104 GPa) and approximately 80% lower thermal conductivity than that of steel.

Titanium has three characteristics that make it very hard to machine:

1. Titanium absorbs a lot of energy before fracturing. It’s easy to bend titanium, but it just keeps bending and bending before breaking. This results in cutting being a force applied over a distance, which is energy. That energy goes into heating up the material being cut.
2. Titanium has fairly poor thermal conductivity for a metal. So, when you heat up titanium, that heat stays where it started out without spreading.
3. Titanium, although not exceptionally strong at room temperature, is one of the strongest metals when red hot, because it loses the least strength with an extra thousand degrees of temperature.

With that being said. That is no longer the case. In our industry( Aerospace) we have developed methods and tools to migrate this problem.

In the past, titanium was difficult to machine. But because titanium has been adopted in many industries, the experience gained by fabricators gives us lots of titanium machining knowledge. Today, titanium can be fabricated just as easily as stainless steel.

These are the steps we use for machining titanium:

1. The recommended cutting speed less than 60 m/min for roughing and 3-4 times that when finishing. Otherwise, thermal softening, as well as chemical reaction between tool and workpiece, may occur. Feedrates are entirely dependent upon chip loads as well as other elements, but should be large enough to prevent work hardening.
2. Titanium conducts heat very slowly. During machining operations, this poor thermal conductivity traps heat in the work zone, severely damaging cutting tools. If your machine setup can handle the additional load, considerations must be made in raising the feedrate to transfer more heat into the chips.
3. Titanium is extremely tough. So we use a positive rake geometry. The cutting tool should have a tough substrate and hard coating. The tool must be sharp.
4. Because of the high heat and stringy chips, a copious flow of clean cutting fluid is required.
5. Filtration to 25-micron or better is critical. Concentrations must be at least 10%, a high-pressure pump of 500 psi or more to remove chips from the work area Must be used. Coolant-fed cutting tools, with inserts that enhance chip control are used.

A better metal to use would be 7075 grade aluminum. This aluminum was developed to replace titanium due to cost and the previous difficulty in manufacturing In the aerospace industry. It shares many of the same characteristics as titanium. It is highly superior to SS, by a wide margin. I see why Apple uses it in their premium phones because they can market it as being more premium and they would save money on each unit By fooling the customer. Very smart. Good for them, not so good for the customer.

 

[JPack]

Actually, no it’s not. Machining operations of titanium alloys in the past were more difficult, this is true. due to its relatively high tensile strength, low ductile yield, 50% lower modulus of elasticity (104 GPa) and approximately 80% lower thermal conductivity than that of steel.

Titanium has three characteristics that make it very hard to machine:

1. Titanium absorbs a lot of energy before fracturing. It’s easy to bend titanium, but it just keeps bending and bending before breaking. This results in cutting being a force applied over a distance, which is energy. That energy goes into heating up the material being cut.
2. Titanium has fairly poor thermal conductivity for a metal. So, when you heat up titanium, that heat stays where it started out without spreading.
3. Titanium, although not exceptionally strong at room temperature, is one of the strongest metals when red hot, because it loses the least strength with an extra thousand degrees of temperature.

With that being said. That is no longer the case. In our industry( Aerospace) we have developed methods and tools to migrate this problem.

In the past, titanium was difficult to machine. But because titanium has been adopted in many industries, the experience gained by fabricators gives us lots of titanium machining knowledge. Today, titanium can be fabricated just as easily as stainless steel.

These are the steps we use for machining titanium:

1. The recommended cutting speed less than 60 m/min for roughing and 3-4 times that when finishing. Otherwise, thermal softening, as well as chemical reaction between tool and workpiece, may occur. Feedrates are entirely dependent upon chip loads as well as other elements, but should be large enough to prevent work hardening.
2. Titanium conducts heat very slowly. During machining operations, this poor thermal conductivity traps heat in the work zone, severely damaging cutting tools. If your machine setup can handle the additional load, considerations must be made in raising the feedrate to transfer more heat into the chips.
3. Titanium is extremely tough. So we use a positive rake geometry. The cutting tool should have a tough substrate and hard coating. The tool must be sharp.
4. Because of the high heat and stringy chips, a copious flow of clean cutting fluid is required.
5. Filtration to 25-micron or better is critical. Concentrations must be at least 10%, a high-pressure pump of 500 psi or more to remove chips from the work area Must be used. Coolant-fed cutting tools, with inserts that enhance chip control are used.

A better metal to use would be 7075 grade aluminum. This aluminum was developed to replace titanium due to cost and the previous difficulty in manufacturing In the aerospace industry. It shares many of the same characteristics as titanium. It is highly superior to SS, by a wide margin. I see why Apple uses it in their premium phones because they can market it as being more premium and they would save money on each unit By fooling the customer. Very smart. Good for them, not so good for the customer.

That's a really long way of saying, Titanium is expensive and doesn't dissipate heat.

Ti makes sense as a niche material for aerospace, medical, and $1,000 watches and PowerBook G4s when Apple sold a couple hundred thousands units per quarter. Today, Apple sells more than a couple hundred thousand iPhones per day.

Unlike aluminum or stainless steel, there are no global economies of scale to produce forged Ti chassis at the volume Apple needs. Neither Catcher, Jabil, Pegatron, or Foxconn have the capacity to supply Ti chassis.

Not only is Ti expensive to produce due to the energy required, it's difficult to recycle. It doesn't fit any of the properties that Apple wants as a company in 2022.

 

[doach]

That's a really long way of saying, Titanium is expensive and doesn't dissipate heat.

Ti makes sense as a niche material for aerospace, medical, and $1,000 watches and PowerBook G4s when Apple sold a couple hundred thousands units per quarter. Today, Apple sells more than a couple hundred thousand iPhones per day.

Unlike aluminum or stainless steel, there are no global economies of scale to produce forged Ti chassis at the volume Apple needs. Neither Catcher, Jabil, Pegatron, or Foxconn have the capacity to supply Ti chassis.

Not only is Ti expensive to produce due to the energy required, it's difficult to recycle. It doesn't fit any of the properties that Apple wants as a company in 2022.

I work in the Aerospace industry. i know what can be done and not be done.
Stainless Steel doesn’t dissipate heat either Very well. Titanium isn’t any more difficult to produce than SS. Nor more expensive to produce due to the energy required. It is a more expensive metal due to its properties and the alloys used. Not the machining process. That part has been figured out long ago. Yes. If we can produce it at scale, so could Foxconn. Quite easily.

Apple can do it if they so desired. And Titanium fits all Apples requirements. And they have the money and knowledge to produce titanium at scale. Titanium is also easily recyclable.
Titanium is mainly recycled using a method called vacuum arc remelting. Since the metal can’t be melted in an open-air furnace, it is instead processed using this method. Essentially, a consumable electrode that is made of titanium is used to create an electric arc between the electrode and an ingot in a vacuum, thereby melting the electrode at a steady rate.

Another emerging method is known as cold hearth melting and is considered more economically viable, thereby lowering the cost of titanium recycling even further.

Everything you claimed is just wrong. Sorry. I am a Aerospace engineer, so I am well versed on the subject. Will Apple do it, probably not because it would eat into their profit margins. But they do use 7075 Aluminum which is costly so they could do it. My guess would be at limited quantity, say for a sole model it would be feasible cost wise.

 

[JPack]

I work in the Aerospace industry. i know what can be done and not be done.
Stainless Steel doesn’t dissipate heat either Very well. Titanium isn’t any more difficult to produce than SS. Nor more expensive to produce due to the energy required. It is a more expensive metal due to its properties and the alloys used. Not the machining process. That part has been figured out long ago. Yes. If we can produce it at scale, so could Foxconn. Quite easily.

Apple can do it if they so desired. And Titanium fits all Apples requirements. And they have the money and knowledge to produce titanium at scale. Titanium is also easily recyclable.
Titanium is mainly recycled using a method called vacuum arc remelting. Since the metal can’t be melted in an open-air furnace, it is instead processed using this method. Essentially, a consumable electrode that is made of titanium is used to create an electric arc between the electrode and an ingot in a vacuum, thereby melting the electrode at a steady rate.

Another emerging method is known as cold hearth melting and is considered more economically viable, thereby lowering the cost of titanium recycling even further.

Everything you claimed is just wrong. Sorry. I am a Aerospace engineer, so I am well versed on the subject. Will Apple do it, probably not because it would eat into their profit margins. But they do use 7075 Aluminum which is costly so they could do it. My guess would be at limited quantity, say for a sole model it would be feasible cost wise.

The market speaks for itself. If it were economically viable, consumer electronics manufacturers would be using Ti everywhere a long time ago.

Just because Ti is used by Airbus and Boeing doesn't mean it's economically feasible for a mass produced consumer electronics device.

Making Ti is expensive due to the energy requirements. The Kroll process involves a number melting steps at extremely high temperatures including taking the material through an electric arc furnace.

If you think producing Ti is as cheap as aluminum or steel, you should be writing a paper detailing the process at the National Academy of Sciences, not posting on MacRumors.