No Windows laptops comparable to 13" MBP for my needs?

[stefan1975]

Fail. Gimme a break. Office is better on Windows huh? Well shouldn't it be since Microsoft makes Windows and Office? Well here's news for ya, iTunes is better on Mac, need I explain why?

As for the rest, fail again. Battery life isn't better on Windows machines. Silverlight, again it's made by Microsoft. How is multitouch support better in Windows, most Windows laptops suck at multitouch. Hardware upgradability is limited to desktops and you can very easily upgrade a Mac Pro. Flash support is the issue from a 3rd party company. That's not a plus for Windows computers in terms of them being better.
Graphics switching requires an update from Apple and that's not a good enough reason for someone to consider a PC over a Mac, and Wifi reception is negotiable as I have 2 recent Windows notebooks in my household that drop signal constantly while my Macbooks stay full signal.
Big WOW about Aero Peak, sure it's a nice feature but Expose, Spaces kicks the crap out it. Day to day more people are likely to use Expose and Spaces than they would snapping two windows side by side on the screen.

SSD Trim support so far has proven that it's only needed in Windows and not Mac according to a few articles on the web from test performed.

no need to get defensive. i am not trying to start a win vs mac war here. you just asked for stuff that is better on windows lappies then on a MBP so i mentioned some .... and yes i know some of those advantages are because M$ made those products (office 2010, visual studio 2010, sql 2008 r2, silverlight) but that doesnt matter right? M$ isnt the bad guy here, they make good software ... sometimes. So does Apple. So does Google. So does RedHat. It's just that office 2010 > office 2008 and I need it for work, also outlook to connect to exchange. and aligning two windows left and right on my wide screen monitor is a win7 feature that saves me so much time when working on websites.

True silverlight and flash are 3rd party apps and perhaps the web would be better off without them, but the reality is that currently 99% of the websites use either or both and run more smoothly on linux or windows, plus flash will reduce your battery life significantly on a Mac.

Maybe graphics switching can be improved by apple with an update (although i am doubting they will do so in this 1st gen core iX machine) but currently running either opera or chrome works better on my win machine because it doesnt trigger the dedicated graphics.

And the MBP13 had amazing battery life but not if you run win7 on it, the asus u35 has an advertised battery life of 11.5 hours when running windows which is twice that of the MBP (although real life would probably be around 7-8 i am guessing).

i don't see where this "fails" at all, they're just things i personally think are better on windows (or even fedora for that matter). That doesn't mean i don't prefer OSX. i use both and we develop for both, they just both have their merits and it would be too pro-mac to think everything but gaming works better on a mac.

 

[lilo777]

Fail. Gimme a break. Office is better on Windows huh? Well shouldn't it be since Microsoft makes Windows and Office?

You are right but why the end user should care about the exact reason? The reason as stated is a valid and an important one for customers to consider. Same goes for Silverlight and Adobe. The explanation does not matter.

How is multitouch support better in Windows, most Windows laptops suck at multitouch.

Multitouch support may suck on Windows but it is still infinitely better than the one on OS X (where it does not exist)

SSD Trim support so far has proven that it's only needed in Windows and not Mac according to a few articles on the web from test performed.

yeah, some articles did say this but the consensus says otherwise. Here is what Anand Lal Shimpi (AnandTech) said about it: "I often get questions from Mac users asking what the best SSD is for OS X. Since Apple still won’t support TRIM you need a very resilient drive under OS X. That path leads you to SandForce. Pick up a Corsair Force, OCZ Vertex 2, G.Skill Phoenix or whatever SF drive tickles your fancy if you want the best of the best in your Mac."

 

[mikeo007]

Did you notice that just 3 years ago PC World found the MacBook Pro to be the best laptop to run Windows Vista? Perhaps things haven't changed as much as you'd like people to believe they have.

3 years is a long time in the tech world, a lot has changed. Macbooks do a decent job of running windows, but battery life and other functionality is much worse when compared to the same machine running OSX. Mac and OSX are designed with synergy in mind, the hardware and software work really well together. Toss on some foreign OS (windows) and the Macbook becomes a mid-range PC at best.

To the OP: At its size and price point, there is nothing out there that beats the 13" Macbook pro. There's a reason why it is (or at least was last time I checked) Apple's best selling computer. Still, don't fool yourself into thinking that it will perform as well in Windows as it does in OSX, because it just won't happen. I planned on running Win7 exclusively on my 13", but found that even if I personally don't like OSX as much as windows, it just runs much better on the machine and is just much more convenient to use.

 

[HLdan]

You are right but why the end user should care about the exact reason? The reason as stated is a valid and an important one for customers to consider. Same goes for Silverlight and Adobe. The explanation does not matter.

Of course it doesn't matter to YOU as long as it's a win for Windows and a loss for Apple's customer using a Mac.


Multitouch support may suck on Windows but it is still infinitely better than the one on OS X (where it does not exist)

Of course it doesn't matter to YOU as long as it's a win for Windows and a loss for Apple's customer using a Mac.

Oh, oh I'm sorry, did you mean multi-touch on the SCREEN? Oh, you mean those computers that are selling so poorly that they are now on the home shopping networks? HP Touchsmart? Or did you mean those W7 Tablets that are outselling the iPad? NOT. LOL. I was referring to the multi-touch trackpad which I'm sure you knew that but you didn't want this argument to work out for the Mac of course.

no need to get defensive. i am not trying to start a win vs mac war here. you just asked for stuff that is better on windows lappies then on a MBP so i mentioned some .... and yes i know some of those advantages are because M$ made those products (office 2010, visual studio 2010, sql 2008 r2, silverlight) but that doesnt matter right? M$ isnt the bad guy here, they make good software ... sometimes. So does Apple. So does Google. So does RedHat. It's just that office 2010 > office 2008 and I need it for work, also outlook to connect to exchange. and aligning two windows left and right on my wide screen monitor is a win7 feature that saves me so much time when working on websites.

True silverlight and flash are 3rd party apps and perhaps the web would be better off without them, but the reality is that currently 99% of the websites use either or both and run more smoothly on linux or windows, plus flash will reduce your battery life significantly on a Mac.

Maybe graphics switching can be improved by apple with an update (although i am doubting they will do so in this 1st gen core iX machine) but currently running either opera or chrome works better on my win machine because it doesnt trigger the dedicated graphics.

And the MBP13 had amazing battery life but not if you run win7 on it, the asus u35 has an advertised battery life of 11.5 hours when running windows which is twice that of the MBP (although real life would probably be around 7-8 i am guessing).

i don't see where this "fails" at all, they're just things i personally think are better on windows (or even fedora for that matter). That doesn't mean i don't prefer OSX. i use both and we develop for both, they just both have their merits and it would be too pro-mac to think everything but gaming works better on a mac.

I'm defensive to anyone who starts an unfair argument which you did. First, you mention that Office is better on Windows and then you say that Microsoft isn't the bad guy in this scenario? How so? Is it Apple's fault that Microsoft is trying to sabotage the Mac community by dumbing down Office features for Mac? Microsoft damn well can make Office exactly the same on both platforms, they chose not to. You neglected to mention that Snow Leopard connects to Exchange Server 2007 without a hitch and no need for Outlook. Since Apple did that Microsoft is now releasing a whole new version of Office with Outlook and it's pretty well identical to the Windows version.

I'm glad the little snap feature in W7 works for you, that's all you get new with that OS. I can do a lot more with Spaces and Expose. Gaming runs very well on a Mac after today's graphics update from Apple but you're very quick to crap on the OS X system without checking things out first.

Flash does not run well on Linux.

You also neglected to mention that the Asus U35 and U45 weren't being released till sometime this month so no that's not exactly a contender to the MBP's battery life, plus there's been no formal testing. Also, why are you comparing the battery life in bootcamped Windows vs. the Asus? A Mac is designed to run Mac OS X, it's not a Windows machine by default, it just CAN run Windows so optimization for battery will be in OS X. Again, I get defensive when people are just spewing out what they call "facts" as long as it works out in their favor.

 

[Gabriel GR]

Fail. Gimme a break. Office is better on Windows huh? Well shouldn't it be since Microsoft makes Windows and Office? Well here's news for ya, iTunes is better on Mac, need I explain why?

As for the rest, fail again. Battery life isn't better on Windows machines. Silverlight, again it's made by Microsoft. How is multitouch support better in Windows, most Windows laptops suck at multitouch. Hardware upgradability is limited to desktops and you can very easily upgrade a Mac Pro. Flash support is the issue from a 3rd party company. That's not a plus for Windows computers in terms of them being better.
Graphics switching requires an update from Apple and that's not a good enough reason for someone to consider a PC over a Mac, and Wifi reception is negotiable as I have 2 recent Windows notebooks in my household that drop signal constantly while my Macbooks stay full signal.
Big WOW about Aero Peak, sure it's a nice feature but Expose, Spaces kicks the crap out it. Day to day more people are likely to use Expose and Spaces than they would snapping two windows side by side on the screen.

SSD Trim support so far has proven that it's only needed in Windows and not Mac according to a few articles on the web from test performed.

you really compare a production suite with an entertainment app? People have to use word and excel daily for their jobs. And the fact that you can't use scripts in excel for mac, or the lack of Access and Outlook is important.

Adobe is lazy with Flash for mac. But guess whom this affects the most. That's right end users that see their computers getting warmer every time they are on youtube.

None buys a computer to run apple only software. The fact that Office, Matlab, Photoshop, ArcGIS, Oracle, Eclipse run slower on mac or that their versions aren't as great as the PC ones is a problem for potential apple buyers and puts several people off.

As far Expose and Spaces. Yes they are great and yes I think that MS copied them in Win 7. But where is a shortcut to maximize windows in OSX or split them in half the screen or transfer them between spaces. You actually have to install a third party app like sizeup to get all these functions that are offered as standard in Win 7.

Try not to be blind and there is no need to put down other platforms because you have chosen to work with a Mac. if the Mac didn't have it's advantages this forum would be full of cult people that wanted sub par computers. Apparently that is not the case but Windows, Linux, Unix etc all have their advantages and disadvantages as well.

 

[drock]

3 years is a long time in the tech world, a lot has changed. Macbooks do a decent job of running windows, but battery life and other functionality is much worse when compared to the same machine running OSX. Mac and OSX are designed with synergy in mind, the hardware and software work really well together. Toss on some foreign OS (windows) and the Macbook becomes a mid-range PC at best.

To the OP: At its size and price point, there is nothing out there that beats the 13" Macbook pro. There's a reason why it is (or at least was last time I checked) Apple's best selling computer. Still, don't fool yourself into thinking that it will perform as well in Windows as it does in OSX, because it just won't happen. I planned on running Win7 exclusively on my 13", but found that even if I personally don't like OSX as much as windows, it just runs much better on the machine and is just much more convenient to use.

thanks Mike, you've given very helpful replies in both my topics =)

I intend to use OSX as my main OS so I can reap the full benefits of the hardware. that said, I will need to use Windows from time to time and will probably do so only while at my desk and have it plugged in, so battery life under Windows is not much of an issue for me.

That said, how about using Windows under Parallels or VM?

 

[aethelbert]

That said, how about using Windows under Parallels or VM?

It can still be quite a signifcant battery drain, but if you're only using a VM when plugged in then it makes no difference. Graphics performance will be subpar in the realm of good cards; depending on the degree to which you're taking this 3D modeling and gaming, the 320 may not be a very good performer for you.

 

[SurferMan]

HP Envy is a knockoff that performs horribly and materials are chintzy.

HP Envy also has poor battery life as well.

Umm you must be talking about the 1st gen models that had some issues, the newer line and gen 2 15" are badass, my buddy has a 15" build quality is tight, and as far as performance it blows a MBP away especially in gaming, their power-houses.

OP -you can always install Win7 on a virtual machine like I did on my MBP. So I can flip flop between osx and Win at the same time (running together). I use Virtualbox which is free and works perfect for my needs.

 

[drock]

It can still be quite a signifcant battery drain, but if you're only using a VM when plugged in then it makes no difference. Graphics performance will be subpar in the realm of good cards; depending on the degree to which you're taking this 3D modeling and gaming, the 320 may not be a very good performer for you.

That's what people tell me... but there are videos on youtube of a guy showing games running on his 320m, and he runs new games at medium or even high settings at playable framerates...

I wish it was easier to tell how adequate the 320m is =\

I mean if I can sculpt in Zbrush at 1-2 million polys, and play stuff like TF2 and Dead Space, then I'm all set. I don't need it for rendering, I can do that in my school's computer lab.