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Nokia Expands Patent Claims Against Apple With New European Lawsuits

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Nokia today announced that it has filed four new suits against Apple in the United Kingdom, Germany, and the Netherlands, alleging infringement of an additional 13 Nokia-held patents beyond the 24 cited in existing complaints filed in the United States.
"These actions add 13 further Nokia patents to the 24 already asserted against Apple in the US International Trade Commission and the Delaware and Wisconsin Federal courts," said Paul Melin, vice president, Intellectual Property at Nokia. "The Nokia inventions protected by these patents include several which enable compelling user experiences. For example, using a wiping gesture on a touch screen to navigate content, or enabling access to constantly changing services with an on-device app store, both filed more than ten years before the launch of the iPhone."
Nokia specifically cites the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch as violating its patents.

Nokia filed its first complaint against Apple in October 2009, and the dispute has escalated in the months since then with the two companies filing multiple new claims against each other.

Article Link: Nokia Expands Patent Claims Against Apple With New European Lawsuits
 

Doctor Q

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Sep 19, 2002
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I don't know whether or not Apple infringed on these Nokia patents, but I have a hypothetical question: Just considering the costs, ignoring any issue of principles, is it a reasonable business strategy to knowingly violate patents that might apply to a product you are developing, to avoid up-front licensing costs while risking the cost of legal action and settlements later?
 
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angrylawyer

macrumors member
Dec 15, 2010
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using a wiping gesture on a touch screen to navigate content

I don't understand this one. If taken at face value that basically means no touch screen navigation for ANY phone. You would have to use up/down/left/right arrows that you'd click and the page would move a unit in that direction every time you clicked. Why aren't they suing EVERY SINGLE touch screen phone manufacturer because as far as I know...every smartphone phone has wiping gestures to navigate content.

That patent is way to vague, it'd be like patenting a scroll wheel.
 
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LagunaSol

macrumors 601
Apr 3, 2003
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I have a hypothetical question: Just considering the costs, ignoring any issue of principles, is it a reasonable business strategy to knowingly violate patents that might apply to a product you are developing, to avoid up-front licensing costs while risking the cost of legal action and settlements later?

With all the ridiculous patents out there (see the Paul Allen lawsuit for example), I think it's near-impossible to create any product or service these days without violating somebody's patent. Sadly patent litigation is just part of the cost of doing business these days. It's a real economy killer - funneling money to attorneys when it could be going to product development. The patent system is in serious need of an overhaul.

Notice many of these lawsuits don't happen until a company is in real trouble (Nokia). A last-gasp effort at relevance and/or much-needed cash.
 
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RawBert

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Jan 19, 2010
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I personally haven't seen anyone with a Nokia phone in about 5 years. Any time I see Nokia's name anymore is online regarding a lawsuit they're filing.
 
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LagunaSol

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Apr 3, 2003
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I don't understand this one. If taken at face value that basically means no touch screen navigation for ANY phone. You would have to use up/down/left/right arrows that you'd click and the page would move a unit in that direction every time you clicked. Why aren't they suing EVERY SINGLE touch screen phone manufacturer because as far as I know...every smartphone phone has wiping gestures to navigate content.

That patent is way to vague, it'd be like patenting a scroll wheel.

People have been wiping to navigate content since pen first touched paper. Books & magazines anyone? Prior art up the wazoo. What a ludicrous patent.
 
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Dr McKay

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Aug 11, 2010
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Must be hard for Nokia, when I was about 10 years old they dominated.


Everyone had the Nokia 3210 here in the UK.
 
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maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Said many times, "Those who can't innovate, litigate."

On the other hand, every other mobile company pays the fees for using the patented materials in their products. Apple chose to ignore that and now they're on the hook.

This isn't someone patent troll, but a major celluar company that holds a lot of patents.

The bottom line is that they either knowingly infringed on Nokia's patents or they didn't. Its not some obscure patent, but the patents surrounding GSM.


Must be hard for Nokia, when I was about 10 years old they dominated.
Last time I looked they're still dominating in europe
 
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shartypants

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
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Poor Nokia licking its wounds as the smartphone industry grows and it can't keep up. Instead of suing, put out better phones.
 
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ShiftyPig

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Aug 24, 2008
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Popped in expecting certain responses. Not disappointed. Nothing jacks up the page views (read: ad revenue) like a good Nokia/Flash/MS bashing.
 
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rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
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I don't know whether or not Apple infringed on these Nokia patents, but I have a hypothetical question: Just considering the costs, ignoring any issue of principles, is it a reasonable business strategy to knowingly violate patents that might apply to a product you are developing, to avoid up-front licensing costs while risking the cost of legal action and settlements later?


That's an excellent question. For Apple, I wouldn't doubt that that is their strategy. They are arrogant enough and have damn good lawyers, not to mention a few bucks in the bank.
 
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kiljoy616

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Apr 17, 2008
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On the other hand, every other mobile company pays the fees for using the patented materials in their products. Apple chose to ignore that and now they're on the hook.

This isn't someone patent troll, but a major celluar company that holds a lot of patents.

The bottom line is that they either knowingly infringed on Nokia's patents or they didn't. Its not some obscure patent, but the patents surrounding GSM.



Last time I looked they're still dominating in europe

They dominate because they where there first, but for the most part their phones just are not that good. All they have left is patents trolling. If they had good phones they could care less. So what would they like a percentage of the sales, or maybe they want apple to just stop making phones for the EU. Nokia is what it is a floundering company like so many who could come up with new stuff but old people run the company and innovation is not in their vocabulary.
 
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SandynJosh

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2006
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I don't understand this one. If taken at face value that basically means no touch screen navigation for ANY phone. You would have to use up/down/left/right arrows that you'd click and the page would move a unit in that direction every time you clicked. Why aren't they suing EVERY SINGLE touch screen phone manufacturer because as far as I know...every smartphone phone has wiping gestures to navigate content.

Either the other phone companies have paid for the right to use the patents, or Nokia is planning on knocking them all down one-by-one. If they win against Apple, then everyone else will cave in because Nokia will only need to point to the outcome of the Apple litigation. If Apple wins, then Nokia can reassess their next step, if one exists.

The most likely outcome is that Apple's counter-suit will invalidate some patents, Nokia will win on some patents and Apple will win on others. The lawyers will get together later and have a party and light their cubans with hundred dollar bills.
 
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kiljoy616

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Apr 17, 2008
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I personally haven't seen anyone with a Nokia phone in about 5 years. Any time I see Nokia's name anymore is online regarding a lawsuit they're filing.

I have seen a few but its with people in their 60 so I guess that their new demographics. :rolleyes:
 
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thatisme

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2010
485
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United States
Well we are now faced with the Chicken or the Egg question. Who developed the tech first, and who can prove it (even with a patent envolved in the process)... Swipe gestures have been around a while now on most touchscreen enabled devices, and are manufactured by many suppliers. So, should Nokia forfeit the patent due to the non-excercising of said pattent since the patent was filed, and do they have an obligation to file suit on everyone else who is not paying licensing fees to Nokia (i.e. Google, RIM, Microsoft, HP, Samsung, LG, etc.)

Also at question is who or whom needs to license the patent? Is it the designer? Is it the manufacturer of the final product, is it the component supplier or the programmer? In the case of Apple, they design and then sell the final product. Third party companies manufacture the components and the assembled product. Does Apple have to license all patents involved in every aspect of their hardware, or is it incumbent on the component mfgrs to license the patent for the parts they produce, then transfer said license during the sale of the component?

Apple doesn't manufacture the touch screens, which is where the touch interface begins. They do, however, create the software with the particular gestures built in.... So who has to license?
 
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kiljoy616

macrumors 68000
Apr 17, 2008
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USA
I don't know whether or not Apple infringed on these Nokia patents, but I have a hypothetical question: Just considering the costs, ignoring any issue of principles, is it a reasonable business strategy to knowingly violate patents that might apply to a product you are developing, to avoid up-front licensing costs while risking the cost of legal action and settlements later?

To answer your question first take into account that most patents are not specific and are very broad. A lot of them are not from say Nokia but could be from just patent trolling from the company where they buy out patents that someone or a college has. For Nokia on how bad their phones and interface are I can see them becoming a trolling company not unlike so many others in the past years, when all this goes to court a lot of these so called patents are dropped. Nokia does not want money from apple they want apple to stop making phones so they can keep selling their crap as innovative. Imagine what they will say about Google phones or MS but I figure MS has patents on them and they will not attack them. That another thing, if my company has patents you need your not going to patent troll my company, what you will do is go after those that don't have anything that can hurt you company. That is the new game old companies play as they loose mindshare as well as relevance in the industry. :D

This is old stuff, plenty of news and article on line about this so nothing new.
 
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Reddmanz

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2010
169
0
Must be hard for Nokia, when I was about 10 years old they dominated.


Everyone had the Nokia 3210 here in the UK.

Isn't that a 3310?
I had both and loved them but that was because any phone was cool when I was that age.
 
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