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divinox

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2011
1,979
0
At some point, people start to copy designs, even OLD Nano designs. I think the point is when do you see other companies innovate some new fresh design? You really don't. Apple always pioneers something new, and everyone else lifts elements of the idea. Even if not exact copies. It would just be nice for once for a company that is NOT Apple to release a product that makes me go, "wow, that's a hot design! so fresh! i want it!" and not say, meh, "it looks like franeksteins monster with borrowed limbs from a, b, c.)

Your second point shows how ignorant you are. Specs mean crap. You can throw a 2GHZ processor into a machine, but that doesn't mean it will perform as well or better than a machine with 1GHZ processor. Android and Windows are very bloated OS-es (even Win7 still suffers from this), and they are more resource hungry. IOS/Mac OS are far more efficient and do more with less.

It's like comparing a 300lb man to a 150lb runner. Both can technically lift the same amount of weight, but one doesn't need to consume as much food and have all the bulk and bloat to do it because their body is a better run machine.

So spec-wise, out perform is a stupid thing to say. For anything. Don't even compare it. The web is full of speed tests and comparisons that show macs and IOS devices performing the same exact tasks in the same apps faster with less under the hood. Might be those apps when programmed for a different platform run better too.... Actually, the generally do. Read reviews for Microsfot office on the mac. "Works better than the windows version."

Lord Judge, i present to you - exhibit a:
samsungpictureframe.jpg


exhibit b:
1242017_f496.jpg


See how easy it is to come across as a complete idiot?

Neither N9 nor Nokia 800 has any roots in the nano. As pointed out in this thread, its heritage within the Nokia line is clear. Now poof!

Second, i never said specs matter. I said its funny that in MR logic specs only seem to matter when Apple is ahead of someone else. When they're not, its always irrelevant. Always.

Third, WP7 is hardly bloated. If it were, it wouldn't be buttery smooth. In fact, i have yet to see real lag on a WP7 device. I have seen it on the 3GS since iOS4 though. Reality is a bitch without the RDF. Even so, i'm glad I'm outside of its range.

P.S. I've been working professionally with Office for mac regularly the last few years, using the last three version - and no, while being good enough for me not to run it in VM (i am a mac user) it's not as good as the Windows offering (i have a W7-box too, sitting in my home office). In particular, Excel 2008 was a joke.

Thank you, come again.

----------

You do know that WP7 has ten colors you can choose from, right? Including brown? I personally use the "mango" color, but was using red until a week or so ago. You can just change it whenever you want. Past that, most apps will have their own tile design (Netflix and ESPN ScoreCenter have slightly different shades of red, for example), so the top of your home screen is unlikely to be any single monotonous color after a week of use.

And, unlike iOS, the start screen is not the center of the experience. Metro Apps are.

----------

The entire smartphone category of devices derives from PDAs. The main differentiation is that a smartphone is a PDA with a phone in it. They're not very different. In fact, most smartphone designs are internally built as PDAs with phones built in. Literally. The Pre, the original iPhone, and the Treos all were a base PDA with an internally separate radio module. I haven't taken apart many Windows phones, but I'd expect at least a quarter of the designs to also do this too. Heck, even Siemens had a Newton-based desk phone.

Palm Pilot -> Palm 7 -> Palm Treo -> Cobalt -> Palm Pre.
Windows CE Pocket PC -> Windows CE Smartphone edition -> Windows Mobile 7.
Newton Intelligence -> iOS.
Psion/EPOC32 -> Symbian Series

On the left is the earliest mobile OS of that series, and on the right is the current product of that lineage. I'm not saying that iOS is a new version of Newton, nor that the Pre is a new version of the Pilot.
I'm saying that mobile OS' have been around longer than you implied. And that design ideas from the earliest of that lineage continue to influence descendants.

As strange at it might sound at first, when you look at what goes into making a smartphone, both Microsoft and Apple have had more experience than Nokia when it comes to the "smart" part of "smartphone".

Actually, the entire smartphone segment doesn't derive from the PDA. It derives from several streams of technology converging or perhaps colliding. This convergence, or collide, in turn, is what in essence allowed Apple to successfully disrupt involved industries, much thanks to their legacy in software.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
The entire smartphone category of devices derives from PDAs. The main differentiation is that a smartphone is a PDA with a phone in it. They're not very different. In fact, most smartphone designs are internally built as PDAs with phones built in. Literally. The Pre, the original iPhone, and the Treos all were a base PDA with an internally separate radio module. I haven't taken apart many Windows phones, but I'd expect at least a quarter of the designs to also do this too. Heck, even Siemens had a Newton-based desk phone.

Palm Pilot -> Palm 7 -> Palm Treo -> Cobalt -> Palm Pre.
Windows CE Pocket PC -> Windows CE Smartphone edition -> Windows Mobile 7.
Newton Intelligence -> iOS.
Psion/EPOC32 -> Symbian Series

On the left is the earliest mobile OS of that series, and on the right is the current product of that lineage. I'm not saying that iOS is a new version of Newton, nor that the Pre is a new version of the Pilot.
I'm saying that mobile OS' have been around longer than you implied. And that design ideas from the earliest of that lineage continue to influence descendants.

As strange at it might sound at first, when you look at what goes into making a smartphone, both Microsoft and Apple have had more experience than Nokia when it comes to the "smart" part of "smartphone".

Ok then using your analogy, which is wrong by the way, then symbian has been around since the 1980's as Psion was started in 1980 and developed and sold rugged hand held computers to business. They developed Symbian with the mobile phone partners so it has more experience then MS or Apple by a country mile. The first Psion Organiser was launched in 1984, I think the first Newton was launched in 1993, I believe the first Windows CE device was also launched in the 90's.
 
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adder7712

macrumors 68000
Mar 9, 2009
1,923
1
Canada
At some point, people start to copy designs, even OLD Nano designs. I think the point is when do you see other companies innovate some new fresh design? You really don't. Apple always pioneers something new, and everyone else lifts elements of the idea. Even if not exact copies. It would just be nice for once for a company that is NOT Apple to release a product that makes me go, "wow, that's a hot design! so fresh! i want it!" and not say, meh, "it looks like franeksteins monster with borrowed limbs from a, b, c.)

Your second point shows how ignorant you are. Specs mean crap. You can throw a 2GHZ processor into a machine, but that doesn't mean it will perform as well or better than a machine with 1GHZ processor. Android and Windows are very bloated OS-es (even Win7 still suffers from this), and they are more resource hungry. IOS/Mac OS are far more efficient and do more with less.

It's like comparing a 300lb man to a 150lb runner. Both can technically lift the same amount of weight, but one doesn't need to consume as much food and have all the bulk and bloat to do it because their body is a better run machine.

So spec-wise, out perform is a stupid thing to say. For anything. Don't even compare it. The web is full of speed tests and comparisons that show macs and IOS devices performing the same exact tasks in the same apps faster with less under the hood. Might be those apps when programmed for a different platform run better too.... Actually, the generally do. Read reviews for Microsfot office on the mac. "Works better than the windows version."
Sorry but, the world does not revolve around Apple.

Sorry to tell you.
 

vartanarsen

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2010
712
307
Windows mobile 7.5 Mango is a beautiful OS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtM5zQN8p74&feature=related

A nice alternative to iOS and Android for those who want something different. I actually think it's the best looking Mobile OS, and the integrated apps seem very useful. I'll be getting one soon to see how it works, but the first signs look very positive.

In the future, Microsoft can really take top spot in mobile gaming with XBox live if done right. Everything is in place for them to really shake up the mobile world.

Is there a way to "bootcamp" into W7 on an iP4?
 

something3153

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2011
404
0
It's like comparing a 300lb man to a 150lb runner. Both can technically lift the same amount of weight, but one doesn't need to consume as much food and have all the bulk and bloat to do it because their body is a better run machine.

What do you call a 150lb runner? A fatass. And if you actually knew any, you'd know they can pack away the food quite well. I'm a 175lb swimmer and I eat more than my out of shape 250lb coworkers.
 

aristotle

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2007
1,768
5
Canada
Here is the main problem with Windows Phone 7. It looks like those trendy infographic picture you see on the web or a magazine app like Project. That is fine for a magazine app but looks like a huge waste of space with too much scrolling left to right and up and down in a main UI for a phone. They have big arse header text in the "hubs" which again look fine on the index page of a magazine but are a usability nightmare on a phone.

If I want flipping and twirling pages then I will open up flipboard or Project magazine. It might look "cool" at first but is really impractical sort of like how LCARS looked "cool" on the STNG tv show but would be impossible to use in real life.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,826
6,880
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Well a few thoughts...

1. Stephen Elop DELIVERED! Actually he beat his original timeline of announcing in early 2012, and bested it yet again by doing it 2mths prior, and further by carriers in Europe (OK, Orange, and Vodafone) ALL going full steam ahead supporting Nokia by releasing both the 800 and 710 before mid-November.
^ This ALONE should smack RIM in the face along with a serious horse-kick in the arse! to BOTH CEO's. They continually promise and never deliver on-time! RIM with this attitude does NOT deserve to be in Enterprise' business. Period.

2. Nokia is back. They're back with original designs - with a love it / hate it feel. This is how Nokia got big along with delivering to the mass market with varying options. This is what Stephen Elop meant by "The next billion"!

3. I actually LOVE that glass ... like a liquid bubble over a flat surface. An illusion of icons/tiles/apps jumping out in 3D ... at least in the videos.

I used to HATE the metro layout of Windows Phone 7 but its growing on me and making sense. Icons that are interactive and deliver tidbits of information before needing to dive into the app itself; with ability for users to specifically bookmark to the main/home screen a specific bit of information to be presented from within the App (Your wifes itinerary for today, your kids twitter post roll - nothing else, Important or Flagged emails to you or by you.) Microsoft never did a good job highlighting the reason for this Tile's UI .. .yet Nokia is doing a good job at it via Nokia World.

4. Eco failure. Nokia, along with Apple is THE most Eco friendly conscious manufacturer of phones in the world (Apple - PCs). Yet using PolyCarbonate shell in the 800 was a dumb move. Imagine 74 million of these getting dumped in 2yrs ... bad bad bad.
 

hchung

macrumors 6502a
Oct 2, 2008
689
1
Ok then using your analogy, which is wrong by the way, then symbian has been around since the 1980's as Psion was started in 1980 and developed and sold rugged hand held computers to business. They developed Symbian with the mobile phone partners so it has more experience then MS or Apple by a country mile. The first Psion Organiser was launched in 1984, I think the first Newton was launched in 1993, I believe the first Windows CE device was also launched in the 90's.

Indeed the Psion Organizer predates both Newton and WinCE.
However, Symbian is EPOC32, which was released 1997, developed by Psion. In addition, Psion isn't Nokia.

Nokia joined up with Motorola, Psion, and a few other companies in 1997 to use and continue to develop Symbian further. Nokia wasn't working on it prior to 1997, and didn't release their S60 phones until 2000.

Your original statement tried to say that Apple was relatively new to mobile OSs compared to Nokia, but Nokia still joined the field after Apple did.
 

Schweitzer

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2010
181
0
to the mods :

For the sake of your readers and supporters, remove this.

This isn't a general technology blog....we don't log into macrumors to hear about nokia and microsoft joint ventures...


Very disappointing....and sadly reflective of the dwindling quality of the posts on the main page

lmao
 

Savor

Suspended
Jun 18, 2010
3,742
918
The Lumia 710 seems like a nice phone with 1.4GHz and all. But it is a shame the U.S. will never get the 800 which looks sexier and has better build quality. This is why Nokia only has 1% marketshare in the U.S. They have ignored us for many, many years. Owning a premium Nokia handset in the U.S. gives you a sense of exclusivity though. I know because when I owned the N82, I was the only one living in SoCal who I saw ever using one. And when the N95 and its variations were still popular, I saw less than 5 people living in the U.S. who was using one. I know my buddy bought the black 8GB unlocked off Amazon and the only person I personally knew who owned one other than my cousin who was working in Saudi. But if you go to Europe or Asia and it would be a different story.

I was comparing the form factors of each phone, and the Nokia Lumia 800 (or N9) seems to fit the bill. I like when most of my phones are very close in measurements and have the same thickness. My iPhone 2G and Nexus One have close to the same dimensions and this is why I can use the Android slip case for the iPhone 2G perfectly. Looks like I have to buy it unlocked or off eBay to get this phone and not the carrier subsidized pricing some of us are used to.
 

something3153

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2011
404
0
Here is the main problem with Windows Phone 7. It looks like those trendy infographic picture you see on the web or a magazine app like Project. That is fine for a magazine app but looks like a huge waste of space with too much scrolling left to right and up and down in a main UI for a phone. They have big arse header text in the "hubs" which again look fine on the index page of a magazine but are a usability nightmare on a phone.

If I want flipping and twirling pages then I will open up flipboard or Project magazine. It might look "cool" at first but is really impractical sort of like how LCARS looked "cool" on the STNG tv show but would be impossible to use in real life.

Problem? It's been perfectly usable for me for a month. I actually like it better than iOS. Better than acres of icons across screen after screen, some with settings in the app, some with settings under the main Settings app. How is using multiple dimensions supposed to be a bad thing?
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Problem? It's been perfectly usable for me for a month. I actually like it better than iOS. Better than acres of icons across screen after screen, some with settings in the app, some with settings under the main Settings app. How is using multiple dimensions supposed to be a bad thing?

It isn't a bad thing. Some have a hard time accepting anything without the partially eaten piece of fruit on it.
 

adder7712

macrumors 68000
Mar 9, 2009
1,923
1
Canada
Unfortunately, a likely fake. That very device is the split image of an earlier concept developed (and published) by a design company external to Nokia.

Anyway, i really want 900 to be announced soon. If they make it anything like the concepts they have shown, its gonna be a beauty. (The phone in your link isn't that attractive, really).
It does look like someone slapped the Nokia logo on top of a generic Windows Phone 7 mock-up that Microsoft uses for promo.
 

astrocramp

macrumors member
Aug 27, 2011
88
55
Here is the main problem with Windows Phone 7. It looks like those trendy infographic picture you see on the web or a magazine app like Project. That is fine for a magazine app but looks like a huge waste of space with too much scrolling left to right and up and down in a main UI for a phone. They have big arse header text in the "hubs" which again look fine on the index page of a magazine but are a usability nightmare on a phone.

If I want flipping and twirling pages then I will open up flipboard or Project magazine. It might look "cool" at first but is really impractical sort of like how LCARS looked "cool" on the STNG tv show but would be impossible to use in real life.

Actually wp7 makes very efficient use of graphics- there are no unnecessary drop shadows, no physical world imitations, only primary colors, and zero lag. I've used wp7 on Verizon as a stop gap until they released a world phone iPhone, but I think I'm sold and will skip the 4s. Apple seems to be moving in a very strang design direction...the fake wood of iBooks, the ridiculous day planner style of iCal, and in general putting unnecessary faux physical world stuff like leather stitching on apps. It's like they're targeting old people.
 

macsmurf

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,200
948
Actually wp7 makes very efficient use of graphics- there are no unnecessary drop shadows, no physical world imitations, only primary colors, and zero lag. I've used wp7 on Verizon as a stop gap until they released a world phone iPhone, but I think I'm sold and will skip the 4s. Apple seems to be moving in a very strang design direction...the fake wood of iBooks, the ridiculous day planner style of iCal, and in general putting unnecessary faux physical world stuff like leather stitching on apps. It's like they're targeting old people.

I agree. I get it in some situations - such as in the clock app where timers are set using a "cleaner" physical representation of a mechanical odometer. That makes sense in itself and is a least recognizable to people over 30.

However, the "lets make it look like an actual calendar" direction doesn't make sense to me and its nice to see an ortogonal approach.

I think the 800 especially will sell like hot cakes. The knee jerk reaction in this forum is entirely predictable. It's actually shriller than I expected which bodes well for MS+Nokia :)
 

Savor

Suspended
Jun 18, 2010
3,742
918
The Nokia Lumia 710 won't make that much of an impact for Nokia or Microsoft's tiny market share in the U.S. even if it was released here.

The Nokia Lumia 800 will spearhead Microsoft's WP platform globally. Nokia's best phone since the Nokia N95 and one the their nicest-looking since the 6500 slide/classic when they were using either stainless steel or anodized aluminum. The Sirocco and Luna were also very nice, and people don't realize Nokia OWNS Vertu which makes luxury phones.

Nokia has practically ZERO presence in the United States. Hasn't had a true flagship since the Nokia 95 and no ecosystem. Samsung and LG make MULTIPLE phones too from cheap ones to premium and they still haven't surpassed Nokia at #1 in volume sales or #2 in profit margins. The King isn't dead yet.

gsmarena_002.jpg
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
The Nokia Lumia 710 won't make that much of an impact for Nokia or Microsoft's tiny market share in the U.S. even if it was released here.

The Nokia Lumia 800 will spearhead Microsoft's WP platform globally. Nokia's best phone since the Nokia N95 and one the their nicest-looking since the 6500 slide/classic when they were using either stainless steel or anodized aluminum. The Sirocco and Luna were also very nice, and people don't realize Nokia OWNS Vertu which makes luxury phones.

Nokia has practically ZERO presence in the United States. Hasn't had a true flagship since the Nokia 95 and no ecosystem. Samsung and LG make MULTIPLE phones too from cheap ones to premium and they still haven't surpassed Nokia at #1 in volume sales or #2 in profit margins. The King isn't dead yet.

Image

short term maybe but long term I can see this growing for the phones in the US. MS can use its size and carrier relationships help push it. Remember MS supplies a lot of their software on the back end (OS, servers, ect) for example AT&T Uverse settop boxes are all run on an OS based on MS windows CE supplied by MS.
 

DougB541

macrumors 6502a
Apr 13, 2009
617
0
Looking through the spec, I am a bit disappointed Nokia didn't go with their signature pentaband radio this time (so it would support AT&T, T-Mobile, and the rest-of-the-world 3G).



No, Microsoft did not buy Nokia.

I'm glad your employee "source" doesn't work in my department or I'd beat his ass for giving misinformation.

Sounds like they are launching in America with a whole other line up of phones.

I'm for one a fan of Windows phone...but i also use Zune/Xbox so when something works well and fits in your current ecosystem, you become interested in it. I'm sure thats why many Mac users will probably never leave the iPhone.
 

aloshka

macrumors 65816
Aug 30, 2009
1,437
744
Rumour is the Lumia 800 will be coming to AT&T early in Jan next year featuring LTE support

Except AT&T doesn't have LTE and won't until way later and a big rumor yet, wont' have anything until the T-Mobile thing goes through which won't be until Q2/Q3 of next year.
 
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