All iPads Non-mobile gaming on iPad isn't ever going to be great

[teh_hunterer]

While I mostly agree with OP, frankly I think this is a good thing. Touch-first games will always find their home on iPad. Touch control can enable creative gameplay not found elsewhere (even hybrids like Switch or Steam Deck; I won't play touch rhythm games on Switch for one).

I get where you're coming from, but I think the prevalence of touch first on iPad probably isn't really the App Store rules but the fact that touch is the only input you can rely on 100% of iPad users having.

Requiring every console and PC game to have touch controls inserted into them to be allowed on the iPad though means you're just going to have way less developers bothering to bring those richer console/PC experiences over. Case in point most Nintendo Switch ports don't utilise the touch screen at all.

---

And I'm not even having a go at Apple about this. They can shape the destiny of the iPad any way they like and I'll probably still own one - the intent of this post is more for the person waiting for non-mobile gaming to take off on the Apple platforms. It's been long enough and the problems are pretty much permanent, so better to just go to another platform rather than wait around.

I've had a great time recently with my Switch 2. It's nice to be on a platform where you can reasonably expect more good games to be coming across all the time. Instead of the yearly keynote announcement of yet another Resident Evil, or maybe a No Man's Sky that quietly doesn't even happen over on the iPad.

 

[radow]

Requiring every console and PC game to have touch controls inserted into them to be allowed on the iPad though means you're just going to have way less developers bothering to bring those richer console/PC experiences over.

Actually I expect adding a virtual gamepad being the least hurdle porting games to iPad. Game engines like Unity and Unreal have on screen touch control built in.

Things like Apple requiring Metal graphic API and arm64 architecture are way more challenging than touch controls. Most Windows games are written with DirectX or Vulkan in mind, they work different from Metal. That's why we have Game Porting Toolkit on macOS (MoltenVK, Rosetta 2). Games usually don't just run fine with Game Porting Toolkit, there might be issues like rendering error and poor framerate. Plus who knows what will happen with another iOS upgrade breaking/deprecating some API, developers need to assign a specialized team for that.

Game developers and (arguably more decisively) publishers will consider if it's worth all the effort. Not just development, publishers should have dedicated support for iPad. Not forget Resident Evil Village sold like 2000 copies on iOS. Revenue not even enough hiring one developer for a month. Of course people won't even think about it.

By the way, before Proton on Linux is a thing, there aren't lot of games Linux native, either. You might want check out Ethan Lee, developer of FNA-XNA, port ~70 games and keeping these running on newer versions of Linux userspace with one-man effort.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Actually I expect adding a virtual gamepad being the least hurdle porting games to iPad. Game engines like Unity and Unreal have on screen touch control built in.

Things like Apple requiring Metal graphic API and arm64 architecture are way more challenging than touch controls. Most Windows games are written with DirectX or Vulkan in mind, they work different from Metal. That's why we have Game Porting Toolkit on macOS (MoltenVK, Rosetta 2). Games usually don't just run fine with Game Porting Toolkit, there might be issues like rendering error and poor framerate. Plus who knows what will happen with another iOS upgrade breaking/deprecating some API, developers need to assign a specialized team for that.

Even with all that, there are plenty of games that are released on Mac but not on iPad, and Mac requires all of that as well. You've also got Nintendo Switch which requires translation to ARM and the Switch's graphics API, not to mention all the extra hurdles of making sure your game can run in those hardware constraints - yet developers go the extra mile to do that and are nowhere to be found on the iPad.

But I'm no expert on that subject by any means.

Game developers and (arguably more decisively) publishers will consider if it's worth all the effort. Not just development, publishers should have dedicated support for iPad. Not forget Resident Evil Village sold like 2000 copies on iOS. Revenue not even enough hiring one developer for a month. Of course people won't even think about it.

Yep, and I just don't see this changing without some seismic shift from Apple. It's a mess - you have games on the iPad that should be on Mac but aren't, games on Mac that should be on the iPad but aren't.

Developers/publishers aren't going to fix it on their own. Apple isn't going to stop talking about gaming either. So it is reaching the point where it's just like... DO SOMETHING, or just stop talking about proper games.

When you have the success of all these gaming handhelds like the Switch, Switch 2, Steam Deck etc, Apple's stuff is so pitiful.

 

[Beanoir]

Even with all that, there are plenty of games that are released on Mac but not on iPad, and Mac requires all of that as well. You've also got Nintendo Switch which requires translation to ARM and the Switch's graphics API, not to mention all the extra hurdles of making sure your game can run in those hardware constraints - yet developers go the extra mile to do that and are nowhere to be found on the iPad.

But I'm no expert on that subject by any means.



Yep, and I just don't see this changing without some seismic shift from Apple. It's a mess - you have games on the iPad that should be on Mac but aren't, games on Mac that should be on the iPad but aren't.

Developers/publishers aren't going to fix it on their own. Apple isn't going to stop talking about gaming either. So it is reaching the point where it's just like... DO SOMETHING, or just stop talking about proper games.

When you have the success of all these gaming handhelds like the Switch, Switch 2, Steam Deck etc, Apple's stuff is so pitiful.

The iPad wasn’t built to be a games console, and it never will be. So I would expect the Switch etc to be far better, because that’s their primary function. It doesn’t matter what games are available or not, the experience will never be as good on an Apple device as it is on a dedicated gaming device.

Apple’s stuff (iPad) isn’t pitiful, they’ve made the most successful and still the leading device in this segment.

 

[teh_hunterer]

The iPad wasn’t built to be a games console, and it never will be. So I would expect the Switch etc to be far better, because that’s their primary function. It doesn’t matter what games are available or not, the experience will never be as good on an Apple device as it is on a dedicated gaming device.

The iPad Pro is mostly superior from a hardware perspective. When the stars align and a developer does the work to release a traditional game on there it tends to surpass the Switch. Admittedly with one huge caveat which is that the game is going to be force restarted as soon as you go out to reply to a message or look something up in the browser, whereas on the Switch and most other consoles now they have that quick resume so your game never auto closes on you.

That's what makes it even more frustrating - the iPad is the portable device that many already have with them, it's certainly powerful enough to play the games. It would be nice if the games were there to play and not necessitate the carting around of an extra device just for games.

Apple’s stuff (iPad) isn’t pitiful, they’ve made the most successful and still the leading device in this segment.

I said it's pitiful for non-mobile games, not that it's a pitiful product.

 

[sonicrobby]

The Delta emulator app is probably the best gaming the iPad will get IMO, but I’m also not mad about it. The classics are always fun!

 

[teh_hunterer]

The Delta emulator app is probably the best gaming the iPad will get IMO, but I’m also not mad about it. The classics are always fun!

Yeah being able to emulate has been wonderful. Having the freedom to emulate all those games on the iPad really made me think how good it would be to have the freedom to run more proper games on there.

The iPad is just so good for really getting stuck into a solid quality game - I loved playing Chrono Trigger for the first time on my iPad Pro this year.

Bittersweet though because that experience is just so few and far between. I'm liking Dave the Diver on my Switch 2, but it'd definitely be nicer on my nicer 11" M5 iPad Pro. But even though that game is on Mac, it's probably never going to be on iPad.

 

[teh_hunterer]

A decent example of iPad being a second class citizen even on modern releases is Red Dead Redemption. Comparing the iPad version to the Switch version, I noticed the following:

- The Switch version implements DLSS to make the game look incredibly clean and crisp, even when blown up on a large TV. The iPad version on the other hand uses no upscaling, runs at a low resolution, and the game looks quite pixelated and there are jaggies absolutely everywhere.

The visual is night and day different between them, despite the M5 iPad Pro being a few times more powerful than the Switch 2. They just never bothered to implement MetalFX, or up the res to something more appropriate to the M5's capability.

- The Switch version has HDR, whereas the iPad version, which would be perfect for it with that tandem OLED screen, doesn't.

- The 3:2 aspect ratio of the (11") iPad is handled poorly. There are 3 ways to fit a 16:9 image on a squarer 3:2 screen:

1. You can add black bars to make the image fit
2. You can keep the width of the original image and add in extra height, in other words filling in the black bars by rendering more stuff.
3. You can take the 16:9 image and just zoom in until it fits the screen and crop. This cuts the sides off and thus you can't see as much as you could on the 16:9 image.

You can easily guess they went with #3. This makes the game feel claustrophobic compared to the other platforms. It's a bit hard to capture, but in these screenshots you can see how much more you can see on the Switch 2 despite the screen being 8", much smaller than the iPad's 11" screen.

The Switch has both more horizontal AND more vertical space despite having the wider and smaller screen.

- There is also a bug where almost every time you launch the game, it forgets all user settings and you have to do things like turn subtitles back on, invert the Y axis if you play inverted, etc. As far as I know they haven't even acknowledged the issue, most likely because the iOS/iPadOS user base is so tiny they haven't even noticed the feedback yet.

- And finally you've got the issue where if you go out to another app, browse the web etc for 5 minutes, chances are the game will have been forced closed by iPadOS and you'll have to reload the whole thing again. Quite frustrating!

And this is the typical experience if you want to play non-mobile games on an iPad. This is a big game released just this month, and you still run into basically all the same issues. I don't see the situation changing any time soon.

 

[maflynn]

A decent example of iPad being a second class citizen even on modern releases is Red Dead Redemption.

I can see the reasoning being that the iPad is a productivity device - That begs the question, how many people are actively wanting to play AAA games on an iPad?

With the Switch 2, 100% of switch 2 owners are planning on playing games on it. I'm not trying to sound coy or disrespectful, but just seeing a mindset where developers are putting as little time (read money) in moving a game to the iPad because they may not see a return on their investment.

My experience with playing on the iPad has been somewhat disappointing simply because the interface is inferior, i.e., no controller, not keyboard/mouse Depending on the game, holding the ipad and controlling the game can be a bit awkward

 

[throAU]

I can see the reasoning being that the iPad is a productivity device - That begs the question, how many people are actively wanting to play AAA games on an iPad?

*raises hand*

Have a variety of systems to game on. Well… most of them actually, going back to the 2600.

Divinity Original Sin 2 runs at a pretty much locked 60+ FPS on the M5 iPad Pro and plays great. Retroarch runs plenty of older system really well.

I’d like my ipad to be a gaming platform, and the store really needs to make it more clear which games have controller support.

It would be nice to not have to take my macbook pro, ipad pro AND nintendo switch 2 on a trip with me to be able to work if required and game.

 

[maflynn]

*raises hand*

Have a variety of systems to game on. Well… most of them actually, going back to the 2600.

I never said people are not playing games. What I said is how many people are actively playing games (particularly non-mobile games) on the iPad. I suspect the majority of iPad owners generally don't play AAA games on their iPads - its just conjecture but that's my opinion. I'm a big fan of using the right tool for the job, and there's a lot better products to game on then the iPad - if gaming is your thing.

From your posting history, you're very much a huge apple fan and are fully invested in apple products - nothing wrong with that and dare I say a typical MacRumors member - however MacRumor members are a poor example of typical users, i.e., they really don't represent typical consumers. We're more of a highly technical, hobbyist apple fan.

 

[PandaPunch]

*raises hand*

Have a variety of systems to game on. Well… most of them actually, going back to the 2600.

Divinity Original Sin 2 runs at a pretty much locked 60+ FPS on the M5 iPad Pro and plays great. Retroarch runs plenty of older system really well.

I’d like my ipad to be a gaming platform, and the store really needs to make it more clear which games have controller support.

It would be nice to not have to take my macbook pro, ipad pro AND nintendo switch 2 on a trip with me to be able to work if required and game.

Wait, I thought the App Store was pretty explicit about which games use controllers? It's one of the things of the top of the app's page if I remember right.

 

[PandaPunch]

I never said people are not playing games. What I said is how many people are actively playing games (particularly non-mobile games) on the iPad. I suspect the majority of iPad owners generally don't play AAA games on their iPads - its just conjecture but that's my opinion. I'm a big fan of using the right tool for the job, and there's a lot better products to game on then the iPad - if gaming is your thing.

From your posting history, you're very much a huge apple fan and are fully invested in apple products - nothing wrong with that and dare I say a typical MacRumors member - however MacRumor members are a poor example of typical users, i.e., they really don't represent typical consumers. We're more of a highly technical, hobbyist apple fan.

I'm definitely in a similar camp, I mostly just play chess and Pokemon TCG on mine. But those are games that are okay with the touch screen. And in the case of Lichess, that's usually so I can play with someone in the same room rather than playing on computers on different parts of the house.

I know I've changed a bit from the first comment I made here, but recently, I've been trying to game with more people regardless of the type of game. Strangers, friends, family, doesn't matter too much.

 

[NT1440]

I could have sworn the touch requirement was dropped several years ago? Am I wrong on that?

 

[sparksd]

I could have sworn the touch requirement was dropped several years ago? Am I wrong on that?

It is still there. An app can support use of a controller but it must still support a touch interface.

https://developer.apple.com/games/get-started/

 

[MisterSavage]

Mobile gaming is doing great on iOS recently. New console games. Fortnite.

Fortnite on iPad is a great experience. I really like having a much bigger screen that I would with a Switch or Playstation Portal.

My experience with playing on the iPad has been somewhat disappointing simply because the interface is inferior, i.e., no controller, not keyboard/mouse Depending on the game, holding the ipad and controlling the game can be a bit awkward

For something such as Fortnite or RDR using the touch controls would be so awful. I'd have to have a paired controller. I'm currently using a PS4 controller.

 

[NT1440]

It is still there. An app can support use of a controller but it must still support a touch interface.

https://developer.apple.com/games/get-started/

Wow, didn’t know that.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I can see the reasoning being that the iPad is a productivity device - That begs the question, how many people are actively wanting to play AAA games on an iPad?

Less than there would be if Apple made some effort to make it a better gaming platform. There are a lot of iPhone, iPad and Mac users who game on separate devices purely because they need separate devices to get a good gaming experience.

Given how good Apple's ecosystem is, given how good Apple silicon is, and given how high quality their devices are, Apple could rake in some more market share across their entire lineup if their devices were as good at gaming as they are at everything else.

I don't need a separate non-Apple device for video editing, for browsing, for music creation, for watching YouTube, for looking at my photos, for listening to music. But I need to spend extra money to buy a separate, less powerful and lower quality device for gaming. Because Apple historically hasn't got gaming at a cultural level. They get apps, hence them making so much money on mobile games, but they haven't got real gaming.

The idea that "people don't actively want to play games on Apple devices" is on Apple in the first place. The PC is a "productivity device" and I don't need to tell you how many people actively want to play games on that.

 

[teh_hunterer]

It would be nice to not have to take my macbook pro, ipad pro AND nintendo switch 2 on a trip with me to be able to work if required and game.

Exactly. I think most people who've got to bring a laptop with them have only really got space for one extra device. Be that an iPad, Switch, Steam Deck - they're all competing for the spot in the bag for that second device.

Given that the iPad has a bigger and better screen, is compatible with AirPods, has a great trackpad and keyboard with the Magic Keyboard, is better for media, is more powerful, has WAY better battery life (even when gaming), it would be an absolute no brainer to bring over a Switch or Steam Deck if the gaming situation was better.

 

[throAU]

Wait, I thought the App Store was pretty explicit about which games use controllers? It's one of the things of the top of the app's page if I remember right.

You can sometimes find the info there, but i don't think ALL games that support controllers actually list it.

You also can't search by "supports controller". They should have a category for "supports input devices" or such, because i really don't want to use the touchscreen for gaming, but mouse, trackpad or game controller are all fine for me.

 

[throAU]

Exactly. I think most people who've got to bring a laptop with them have only really got space for one extra device. Be that an iPad, Switch, Steam Deck - they're all competing for the spot in the bag for that second device.

Given that the iPad has a bigger and better screen, is compatible with AirPods, has a great trackpad and keyboard with the Magic Keyboard, is better for media, is more powerful, has WAY better battery life (even when gaming), it would be an absolute no brainer to bring over a Switch or Steam Deck if the gaming situation was better.

Hah, for me, its even worse as i'm the dedicated "carry the tech" person in the relationship,

So it isn't just that, a typical holiday trip for me involves:

• my laptop (in case i need to tend to some emergency at work).
• my ipad
• my switch2
• GF kindle
• GF switch
• airpods and/or Sony WH1000XM4s
• cables/chargers to suit
  • watch x2
  • mac/ipad x1
  • kindle
  • maybe some additional chargers/cables to enable charging more than a couple of devices at a time (e.g., phone + watch for 2 people)
• 1-2 battery banks for the phones

Baggage check staff love me

This is the reason i'm keen to see the ipad get more gaming support and better windowing, etc.

I'm keen to stop carrying the switch and laptop when i'm on a holiday trip. I can probably leave the macbook behind at the moment, but i do like to play more serious/higher end games on that occasionally that the ipad struggles with due to poor mouse/trackpad/controller support in various titles.

 

[MisterSavage]

Baggage check staff love me

This is me and I absolutely dread getting the random selection for them to look at all your electronics.

 

[teh_hunterer]

This is the reason i'm keen to see the ipad get more gaming support and better windowing, etc.

I'm keen to stop carrying the switch and laptop when i'm on a holiday trip. I can probably leave the macbook behind at the moment, but i do like to play more serious/higher end games on that occasionally that the ipad struggles with due to poor mouse/trackpad/controller support in various titles.

Yeah it's always a tough choice. I'm not sure when tech will advance to the point that you can get the same functionality with far less heft.

Perhaps one day it'll be some 12" or so MacBook/iPad hybrid, and a pair of AR glasses for when you need a bigger (or multiple) displays.

You wouldn't really need a gaming "handheld" either, if you could look through a pair of AR glasses and use an Xbox controller instead.

 

[throAU]

Yeah it's always a tough choice. I'm not sure when tech will advance to the point that you can get the same functionality with far less heft.

Genuinely, I think the iPad Pro M5 is pretty much there performance wise. It's mostly just software issues at this point.

Please, Apple:

• Give us better search abilities on the App Store
  • Let me search by controller/mouse/keyboard support
• Continue to iterate on desktop mode/stage manager
  • Maybe permit 2 external displays? Not a hard requirement on this, a single large 4/5/6k display is enough.
• If possible, turn the port on the keyboard into a thunderbolt or at least USB/displayport port.

Aware the last point may be tricky, but being able to leave the keyboard at the desk plugged into a dock would truly be great.

 

[sparksd]

You can sometimes find the info there, but i don't think ALL games that support controllers actually list it.

You also can't search by "supports controller". They should have a category for "supports input devices" or such, because i really don't want to use the touchscreen for gaming, but mouse, trackpad or game controller are all fine for me.

See here -

https://controller.wtf/mfi-games