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I disagree. The subscription model clearly allows for higher pricing so it exacerbates and extends the problem of standards.

Put another way, the features most people use of excel, powerpoint, word, acrobat, etc... haven't changed in years and yet subscription models have us effectively paying for new versions and features on a monthly basis. They seem to be priced comparably at the 2 year mark, so if you use software for less than 2 years, you might be saving on cash (but having no option on future use). So if you plan to use it for more than 2 years, your paying a premium over a non-subscription model.

I get that things get upgraded and people will upgrade over time. However, to put this in perspective, relative to how people usually make medium term decisions, imagine leasing a car for 2 years at the same price that it would cost to buy outright. Would you lease that car?
That is still something that existed in the past. I remember not being able to use certain photoshop files because they were created with a newer version than the one I had. I believe the same was possible for Word.

But again, this is a problem caused lack of competition, not the subscription business model.
 
I purchased this app some years back and used it for a family digital scrapbook as it was easy to work with . Had no idea they were trying the subscription model and . instead of trying to milk customers for more money they need to examine their decision makers and remove them if required . Brand loyalty can and will be damaged , sometimes beyond repair due to greed and contempt for consumers.
 
That is still something that existed in the past. I remember not being able to use certain photoshop files because they were created with a newer version than the one I had. I believe the same was possible for Word.

But again, this is a problem caused lack of competition, not the subscription business model.

Your comments are fair. Of course, how do you open your old photoshop files if you didn't have a current subscription?

Probably the biggest problem with subscriptions is that they become linked to the companies cloud services. Neat stranded me when they moved the service to the cloud. Picasa also stranded a lot of people. Inevitably, overtime, your locked into these services because of your data is in their servers, not necessarily because their services are so awesome.
 
I don't see a reason to change that instinct. Ginger Labs has shown their willingness to pull a stunt like this, I don't have any trust they won't find some other incremental way to the same goal. I've removed it from all my devices and am experimenting with GoodNotes and the basic Apple Notes to choose an alternative.
GingerLabs have been MacRumors members for the longest time. I remember when they were giving away some codes for Notability.
That was about 10 years ago.
Thinking about, 10 years of free updates... nobody does that...
Take QuickBooks, they force you to upgrade every 2 - 3 years unless you choose not to upgrade macOS.
 
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I would have stuck with Notability regardless, but good for the rest of their user base who had no desire to pay an annual subscription. My guess is that we may soon see Notability end-of-lifed and a new V2 app be released, with subscription right from the get go.
If they actually release “notable” new features in such a release, I may actually consider a subscription.
 
Your comments are fair. Of course, how do you open your old photoshop files if you didn't have a current subscription?
I’m talking pre-subscription days, early 2000s. I think the first version I properly started to learn on was Photoshop 6.

Probably the biggest problem with subscriptions is that they become linked to the companies cloud services. Neat stranded me when they moved the service to the cloud. Picasa also stranded a lot of people. Inevitably, overtime, your locked into these services because of your data is in their servers, not necessarily because their services are so awesome.
This is why I still avoid relying on cloud storage whenever i can. I’m probably going to have to set up a NAS at some point because I don’t trust any company (including Apple) to not screw me over at some point and switching these things is always a hassle.
 
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After I moved to Sweden I started using an app to identify plants called PictureThis. I think it might have originally been called something else.

Now, that's not even what I'd call a hobby, it's just, you know, I'm out walking and I see a flower or something and I'm like, "Hey, what's that?" So it's not something I'd want to pay a bunch of money for. Plus, every time I snap a photo of a plant, it nets them data for training their AI or whatever, for telling them exactly where which plants are growing, all that stuff, so it's not like they get nothing out of it.

Over time they have gotten more and more sleazy with the way they present the free-to-use portion of the app, moving the "tap here for the free version" bit around on the screen, trying to trick you into tapping on the giant green CONTINUE button that will start up a subscription. It's just so obviously shady.

I just loaded it up and it launches to the subscription offer page ($30/year) and up in the corner is the word cancel in a tiny white font against a light background, so that it's barely visible. And it's like, maybe if you have to trick people into buying your service, it's not worth all that much to begin with.
Apple provides a convenient place to manage all subscriptions from the iOS App Store in the settings app of your iPhone or iPad.
 
I started home dialysis exactly 4 yrs ago. And at the start, I was charting my BP's, weights and meds on spreadsheets. December, 2018 that all changed when I purchased an iPad Pro 12.9

All of a sudden I could start keeping permanent notes in my own handwriting. Editable. I found perfection. Notability was *it*

And used it for 3 years without more than an occasional hiccup. Yes, I printed out my old records and scanned them into PDF's. Started using Notability and it felt like was coming home. This was how it was supposed to be.

Can just imagine going into the dialysis clinic and they want to see all of my data records for the previous 3 months and I have to tell them that 'sorry, I am past my monthly editing allowance b/c I refused to subscribe'. When I thought about that last night; well, that caused me to backup everything, delete Notability and then dl/setup Goodnotes.

It would be easy to afford a weekly subscription if it came to that, but I use my data for my health. Ginger Labs lost all goodwill with their initial decision to limit previous purchasers. And trust.

Tom
 
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What about them?
One single data point doesn't negate what I wrote.

There are some companies that are doing fine; like Bare Bones Software with BBEdit as well.

The oldest macOS shops are still doing fine because they had enough experience and users to carry them through.

Omnigroup is doing just fine post-app store. They continue to charge reasonable prices for their software, and charge for regular upgrades. The products are maturing, the major feature improvements are fewer and further between, but actual users pay to upgrade to stay current on their platform. There's none of the fragmentation to say is inevitable. They've leveraged the ecosystem to grow across multiple devices.

They don't need to run multi-platform to survive. They're managing updates just fine. Nothing has fundamentally changed in the economics of software development-- you need enough revenue to cover your costs and feed your employees.

Nobody is forcing these companies to change business models. What I'm saw is a bunch of new little devs without much business acumen chasing downloads rather than revenue. What you're saying is that customers will keep racing to the bottom-- serious customers don't. I've paid well clear of $100 for apps on the App Store that are solid applications. I'm pretty sure I've paid over $50 on some high quality games. When they get upgraded every few years or whatever, I'll pay the upgrade fee if the upgrade provides additional value.

People seem to think profits come from massive market share or really high prices-- it doesn't come at either of those extremes... It comes at finding the optimal number of customers at an optimal price. Making your money by holding your users data for ransom or leeching off the fact that people tend to keep paying subscriptions long after they stopped getting value from a product is unethical.

The reason developers like subscription isn't because they "don't have to wait to release new features"-- it's because their revenue is smooth and predictable regardless of how many features they release. If you have built up a lot of data in their application, they don't have to develop anything at all-- you'll just keep paying because you don't want to lose your data. Lightroom is a classic example-- can't move your non-destructive edits to another app, so you're kinda stuck.

Subscriptions are for things that actually carry recurring costs. I pay a subscription for my cellular plan because the carrier has recurring costs associated with my usage. People pay for iCloud storage because there's recurring costs associated with powering and maintaining the servers. Writing a new note in my existing Notability application doesn't cost Ginger Labs a single cent. There's nothing to charge me for. Future features? It's not freaking kickstarter-- I'll pay when they're done. That's called an upgrade.

I don't have many subscription apps, but I suspect there's constant marketing about "all the great features we're working on" to keep people hooked and hoping that something good comes through the pipe to justify whatever they're paying monthly. Feature isn't done this month, doesn't matter, ship it next month-- they'll get paid either way.

Subscriptions completely pervert the incentive structure for product.

But fine, if that's what a developer wants to do, and a customer is willing to jump onto that hamster wheel, more power to 'em. But for a developer to install a remote kill switch into an application you bought assuming you could rely on it? That's simply unethical.
 
GingerLabs have been MacRumors members for the longest time. I remember when they were giving away some codes for Notability.
That was about 10 years ago.
Thinking about, 10 years of free updates... nobody does that...
Take QuickBooks, they force you to upgrade every 2 - 3 years unless you choose not to upgrade macOS.

Being a MR member doesn't give them a halo. I've been a member for 18 years and people here barely excuse me for bad punctuation-- why should we excuse GingerLabs for deactivating software people paid for?

Nobody is suggesting endless free updates. That's a strawman argument.

You get what you pay for. That means nobody should expect new features for free. Nobody should expect OS compatibility updates for free. People should expect bug fixes and security updates for free because you should expect code that securely does what you were told it would do when you purchased it.

What people should not expect is that what they bought will be remotely disabled unless they pay ransom.
 
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Even though Ginger labs changed course again, the damage has been done.
Has it though?

Fantastical seem to be doing just fine these days and there was a far bigger outcry there.

Ginger altered course quickly and did damage control. TBH I'd be surprised if the vast majority of their user base noticed.

You mistake people posting here about the issue and other forums as an indication of vox-populi when the opposite is more accurate.
 
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Things have changed.

Consumers expect 24/7 support and instant fixes. You used to wait weeks or months for updates to programs you bought for $100+. Now if a bug isn’t fixed in a few days, apps can get 1-star reviews and mass uninstalls.

There are more things that need to be constantly updated too. If a tool build by another company changes and your app breaks, that’s a fix you need to make. If a new phone has a different resolution, that’s an update you need to make. If Apple changes a rule, you need to make sure your app isn’t going to get pulled.

The things that used to be nice-to-haves are table stakes now, and that takes resources.
And yet there are companies out there like serif managing to do all that without going the subscription model.
 
These mobile app subscriptions will just drive people to Microsoft Surface devices since MacOS devices don't have native touch and pen inputs. For example, Clip Studio Paint Pro lifetime is $49.99 on Windows and often on sale for 50% off while mobile has a subscription.
I have friends with surfaces and the machines are falling apart after a few years.
Agree with you.
Concerning your industry shift final comment, it only depends on us, the customers.
The most successful company that has shifted to the subscription model is probably Adobe. But it is understandable, since professionals need these softwares, their businesses almost entirely rely on these products, so they accepted being ripped-off.
But for more consumer oriented softwares, it is important that we refuse to pay for this dirty model.

I run a business and the apps I use are a cost of business. They make me money so I subscribe. If they don’t I drop them.

I subscribe to Setapp because it’s cheaper for apps I use than subscribing individually.
I happily pay $100/year for Microsoft 365.

I get 1TB of OneDrive storage... I have Office installed on 4 different machines... and I also share it with one other person.

Microsoft 365 is actually one of the good subscriptions, in my opinion.

I'm also a happy Adobe CC subscriber... <ducks>

:p

You get more if you setup seperste sccounts. I have 2 that I use for backup with ARQ.

There’s no need to support it forever. Make it compatible for the next couple of iterations of the OS, for example. Or make the next version of your attractive enough that people will buy it anyway.

Software developers somehow managed to make a living selling standalone programs for a long time.

And charged upfront. $30 or more was not uncommon.

Omnigroup is doing just fine post-app store. They continue to charge reasonable prices for their software, and charge for regular upgrades. The products are maturing, the major feature improvements are fewer and further between, but actual users pay to upgrade to stay current on their platform. There's none of the fragmentation to say is inevitable. They've leveraged the ecosystem to grow across multiple devices.

I use several of their apps and glady pay for upgrades. Omnigraffle, for example, has good Visio expory, for example so I can send files to my clients.

Some apps work fine as older versions for occasional use so I don’t upgrade.
 
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GingerLabs have been MacRumors members for the longest time. I remember when they were giving away some codes for Notability.
That was about 10 years ago.
Thinking about, 10 years of free updates... nobody does that...
Take QuickBooks, they force you to upgrade every 2 - 3 years unless you choose not to upgrade macOS.
No one would have blamed them if they created a new app that is updated moving fwd. but you can’t remove features from the same app to charge for them in a sub. It’s in the tos of apple w the devs.

also, no one forces you to update your macOS.
 
Things have changed.

Consumers expect 24/7 support and instant fixes. You used to wait weeks or months for updates to programs you bought for $100+. Now if a bug isn’t fixed in a few days, apps can get 1-star reviews and mass uninstalls.

There are more things that need to be constantly updated too. If a tool build by another company changes and your app breaks, that’s a fix you need to make. If a new phone has a different resolution, that’s an update you need to make. If Apple changes a rule, you need to make sure your app isn’t going to get pulled.

The things that used to be nice-to-haves are table stakes now, and that takes resources.
You have to fix them now because the app can be purchased at any time/anywhere. There is also no physical copy to create/disks to press/companies to hire to do the disk/art/etc nor shipping companies nor stores taking apiece of the pie. Just 30% off the top and being able to be downloaded by millions in a second after it goes live All over the world. In the old days any software that was already a few months after release also had a discount.
 
You have to fix them now because the app can be purchased at any time/anywhere. There is also no physical copy to create/disks to press/companies to hire to do the disk/art/etc nor shipping companies nor stores taking apiece of the pie. Just 30% off the top and being able to be downloaded by millions in a second after it goes live All over the world. In the old days any software that was already a few months after release also had a discount.
So we agree then, things have changed.
 
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Liquidtext recently took to using subscriptions as their 'true' model also:

1 - their existing, onetime $29,99 IAP to unlock the app ("Pro" level) was changed to now only give you 1 year of "feature updates".
2 - they, slyly enough, held of on any major feature updates the last 12-18 months, so they didn't need to release anything to existing customers but could wall all new capabilities within the new subscription tiers
3 - as for all the other transitions to subscriptions we've seen, a major price hike was the result starting now at USD 7.99 / month (but with additional capabilities and apps included for mac and pc in the price in all fairness).
4 - you have to read the fine print to understand the new model - which is maybe the most disconcerting thing.

At least I got Goodnotes 5 on 50% discount yesterday :).
 
Being a MR member doesn't give them a halo. I've been a member for 18 years and people here barely excuse me for bad punctuation-- why should we excuse GingerLabs for deactivating software people paid for?

Nobody is suggesting endless free updates. That's a strawman argument.

You get what you pay for. That means nobody should expect new features for free. Nobody should expect OS compatibility updates for free. People should expect bug fixes and security updates for free because you should expect code that securely does what you were told it would do when you purchased it.

What people should not expect is that what they bought will be remotely disabled unless they pay ransom.
If you have a case, let’s go after Intuit. I’m tired of having to buy a new version every 3 years just to be able to run it on the latest macOS.
 
No one would have blamed them if they created a new app that is updated moving fwd. but you can’t remove features from the same app to charge for them in a sub. It’s in the tos of apple w the devs.

also, no one forces you to update your macOS.

The fear of being unable to access or modify 4 years of medical data put the figurative fear of god into me. I’ve got all my Notability documents saved as pdf’s and Notability deleted as of last night. On the weekend I’ll start the job of importing all of those files into Goodnotes.

I still don’t know exactly what counts as an ‘edit’ from Ginger Labs point of view, and to me that is frightening. I log medications, strength of dialysate solution, volume used, etc. and frequently I’ll moves stacks, columns and charts to do a temporal comparison on ‘how well I’m doing’. Makes the job of the dialysis clinic easier and they get a better sense of how I’m doing i dependently.

That freedom to freely manipulate the data that I’ve generated about my own health is what was at risk.

Tom
 
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