Yeah, I'd really like to know whether the pro apps can run on an Intel. That would be wretched for anyone who just bought an iMac or MacBook Pro and didn't realize that they wouldn't at least be able to run pro apps at 30%. But then again, how will the product registration work with those? Can you transfer registration or not?
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Notes on Apple's Rosetta Technology
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SnarkMan said:
Heres a screen with what I found universal... interesting. I just installed Xcode earlier today from my Tiger install DVD. It is universal too (and other associated items). But I guess that makes sense if its able to build for both it should run on both too.
longer, but more correct title
Notes on Transitive's QuickTransit Technology, licensed by Apple and marketed as "Rosetta"
The technology is from a company in Los Gatos called Transitive. Apple is reselling their "QuickTransit" product under the name "Rosetta".
If you want to learn more about "Rosetta", go to http://www.transitive.com/technology.htm....
A better title would be:Macrumors said:
Notes on Transitive's QuickTransit Technology, licensed by Apple and marketed as "Rosetta"
The technology is from a company in Los Gatos called Transitive. Apple is reselling their "QuickTransit" product under the name "Rosetta".
If you want to learn more about "Rosetta", go to http://www.transitive.com/technology.htm....
What happens if you've got a G4 Powerbook and you want to run the "new" version of something (for instance, 12 months from now , the new Final Cut Pro that's been released for the Intel machines)?
Will old Power PC Macs be able to run the new versions for Intel?
Will old Power PC Macs be able to run the new versions for Intel?
They are, Steve said.mmzplanet said:I would bet iLife 06 apps are all universal.I'm sure someone who has it installed already could confirm that.
Yet another reason why not to jump onto the intel boat just yet. I want to see more intel apps or universal ones.
aussie_geek
aussie_geek
I didn't know all PowerPC G5 apps and PowerPC screensavers couldn't run. Not a big deal... just finding this out now, though.
512ke said:
yes they will work..Universal Binaries make them run on either machine. How well they run is another issue, maybe the G4 will not be fast enough for too many more versions of Final Cut Pro. That would be like running the current verion on a G3. You might get it to run, but VERY slowly.
performance comparison Rosetta vs. G4
I asked this back on another forum, but it has more relevance here I think, so maybe someone here can answer.
I currently have:
1) duel G4 1.0GHZ radeon 9800 pro 128mb vram 1.5GB ram (quicksilver)
2) Powerbook G4 Titanium 667Mhz 16mb vram, 512mb ram
I use apps like:
Adobe CS, Macromedia studio 8, Motion 2, FCP 4.5hd, DVD SP3, Warcraft3. and other apps.
(obviously no fat/universal binaries for these at the moment)
How well (compared to my current computers) do you think these apps will run on a new intel imac / macbook-Pro, (emulation through Rosetta of course).
since I'm not going from a G5, I'm wondering if I would still take a performance hit,
run the same, or see even a small increase in speed.
any thoughts ?
Edit: I know I would need to upgrade/cross-grade the apple pro apps. but what about average apps that are running through rosetta, how well do you think they would run compared to my current setup?
I asked this back on another forum, but it has more relevance here I think, so maybe someone here can answer.
I currently have:
1) duel G4 1.0GHZ radeon 9800 pro 128mb vram 1.5GB ram (quicksilver)
2) Powerbook G4 Titanium 667Mhz 16mb vram, 512mb ram
I use apps like:
Adobe CS, Macromedia studio 8, Motion 2, FCP 4.5hd, DVD SP3, Warcraft3. and other apps.
(obviously no fat/universal binaries for these at the moment)
How well (compared to my current computers) do you think these apps will run on a new intel imac / macbook-Pro, (emulation through Rosetta of course).
since I'm not going from a G5, I'm wondering if I would still take a performance hit,
run the same, or see even a small increase in speed.
any thoughts ?
Edit: I know I would need to upgrade/cross-grade the apple pro apps. but what about average apps that are running through rosetta, how well do you think they would run compared to my current setup?
I think a lot of us are going to be supremely interested in seeing Rosetta X-Bench scores on the new iMacs. Does anyone know when the Apple stores are going to be getting Intel iMacs in store? It's going to give us at the very least a base reference to infer what we can expect out of our New PowerBooks*.
See my previous post. Its too soon to tell. Anyone who says anything at this point is pulling something out of an orifice of theirs. Give it about a week and someone will have Rosetta X-Bench scores up at which point we can surmise what that score is to other G4 hardware.
arkmannj said:
See my previous post. Its too soon to tell. Anyone who says anything at this point is pulling something out of an orifice of theirs. Give it about a week and someone will have Rosetta X-Bench scores up at which point we can surmise what that score is to other G4 hardware.
Macs just work... I never have compatibility issues... Apples are completely intuitive.
HA!
Sincerely,
dualcore 2.3
HA!
Sincerely,
dualcore 2.3
512ke said:
12 months from now, Apple will still be releasing universal binaries of their pro apps. So you'll be able to run the new version on a PowerPC-based Mac. (But any app that is compiled only for Intel would only run on Intel-based Macs. But that won't happen until around three-five years down the road, probably.)
arkmannj said:
I don't know if this was what your edit spoke of but programs like final cut won't run through rosetta. The apple site claims that programs that require massive rendering cannot be run through it.
Well, in case anyone out there plays World of Warcraft, they've said on the official forums that they're switching to Universal Binaries on the very next patch.
From the forum: The development of the PPC/x86 universal binary has been underway for some months, we're not seeing any last minute bugs or anything like that; this was a simple scheduling conflict that we are adjusting to. Unless the plan shifts again, 1.9.2 will be the last PowerPC-only version and 1.9.3 will be the vehicle for PPC/x86 support.
The moderator went on to say that the UB is about 2 to 3 weeks out from being released. So good news if you play WoW.
From the forum: The development of the PPC/x86 universal binary has been underway for some months, we're not seeing any last minute bugs or anything like that; this was a simple scheduling conflict that we are adjusting to. Unless the plan shifts again, 1.9.2 will be the last PowerPC-only version and 1.9.3 will be the vehicle for PPC/x86 support.
The moderator went on to say that the UB is about 2 to 3 weeks out from being released. So good news if you play WoW.
G5 apps not running didnt suprise me but the fact that it cant run screen savers is interesting. Many screen savers are just OpenGL apps with a call to go full screen and to set it over everything else, etc. The only platform specific thing might be Altivec (which I believe is emulatable under Rosetta). Maybe they disabled it for power purposes.p0intblank said:
I can't believe how comfortable
people are with this! Apple not supporting their own pro apps and charging the user (again) when the reason for the upgrade is Apples own doing! Charging $200 is pure gangsterism. It feels like I've only just got settled after the last switch. I'm now making music rather than maintaining my software and system but it looks like another huge upheaval is on the cards. I also don't like how the PPC iMac is being made to be second best, thus aiding the migration to intel by the present specs balance. Why not put a 2.7 G5 in it and let people have a choice. It already exists and no doubt after such a long period of time there's one a bit higher. Perhaps even the ill fated 3.0!!
people are with this! Apple not supporting their own pro apps and charging the user (again) when the reason for the upgrade is Apples own doing! Charging $200 is pure gangsterism. It feels like I've only just got settled after the last switch. I'm now making music rather than maintaining my software and system but it looks like another huge upheaval is on the cards. I also don't like how the PPC iMac is being made to be second best, thus aiding the migration to intel by the present specs balance. Why not put a 2.7 G5 in it and let people have a choice. It already exists and no doubt after such a long period of time there's one a bit higher. Perhaps even the ill fated 3.0!!
The only thing im worried about during thisd switch is that some companies will forget about the powerpc and just focus on the intel
darwen said:
Why not? As a developer I have to admit, I can still hardly believe that a PowerPC emulation on Intel works well at all. Especially the problem with endianness has caused all previous emulation of PPC on x86's to be painfully slow. What Transitive has achieved here is quite impressive.
Scan to find Universal apps
"How about a tool to scan the installed apps, extensions, etc., etc. and report on which are PPC and which are universal? And lookup which PPC have universals available? That's be sweet."
What would be really helpful is a tool that could scan for apps that aren't compatible with Rosetta. That's really what matters for most people: What won't run well, if at all, on my new Intel Mac? Otherwise we can continue being productive while we wait for developers to update their apps to universal.
"How about a tool to scan the installed apps, extensions, etc., etc. and report on which are PPC and which are universal? And lookup which PPC have universals available? That's be sweet."
SnarkMan said:
What would be really helpful is a tool that could scan for apps that aren't compatible with Rosetta. That's really what matters for most people: What won't run well, if at all, on my new Intel Mac? Otherwise we can continue being productive while we wait for developers to update their apps to universal.
BornAgainMac said:
It is Java applications combined with PowerPC libraries. And that is quite obvious, because you will be using a Java Virtual Machine for Intel processors, and that Java Virtual Machine will be quite surprised by any PowerPC code.
Screen savers should be no big problem, since they could only have been written with XCode, and a developer would have to be rather stupid to write a screen saver that wouldn't work when just recompiled.
sord said:
There is a very simple reason why PowerPC screen savers don't run: There is a hidden application somewhere that loads screen savers as modules. Anything running that way can only run one way; you could either run the screen saver shell through Rosetta, and you could use _only_ PowerPC screen savers, or you run the screen saver shell as Intel code, and you can use _only_ Intel screen savers.
But then screen savers _are_ written with XCode, so all they need is a recompile as universal binaries. If the developer can't be bothered, tough.
Calm down there!
1. The G5 Macs are a dead end now...end of story. Doesn't matter how much you may or may like them, they're gone. We've known about this for almost a year now.
2. Will your computer that you're working on right now all of a sudden stop working? Will the software on it stop working? It will be YEARS before apps start appearing that are Intel only with the way they're doing the Universal Binary things. When the UB versions of all of Apples software comes out, there is no reason why you personally have to upgrade with the $45 per app.
3. The G5 iMac is being made second best because it's life is over. Yes, they're still selling it on their site but I would bet you that in 6 months if not sooner it will be gone. It doesn't matter if IBM all of a sudden came out with a 4Ghz G5, the days of PPC/IBM chips inside of Macintosh are over. Move on. Also, the only way they could make a G5 iMac compete with the new Intel iMac is to put in a dual-core or dual processor G5 into it...and that would drive costs up much more than what they are now. Besides, who in their right mind would invest in a brand new G5 based computer knowing it's life was so short. I mean, they "could" invest as they will be supported with the Universal Binary apps.
4. Yes, it sucks when you'll go to upgrade your hardware one day...perhaps a year or so from now, and you'll have to upgrade your software then. But we've all been through this before with System 6 to System 7 (which was a nightmare for those that remember that), 680x0 to PPC switch, and of course the System 9 to OSX switch.
Just keep making your music and don't worry what other people have. You don't have to upgrade, you don't have to rush right out and get a new computer....relax.
Henri Gaudier said:
1. The G5 Macs are a dead end now...end of story. Doesn't matter how much you may or may like them, they're gone. We've known about this for almost a year now.
2. Will your computer that you're working on right now all of a sudden stop working? Will the software on it stop working? It will be YEARS before apps start appearing that are Intel only with the way they're doing the Universal Binary things. When the UB versions of all of Apples software comes out, there is no reason why you personally have to upgrade with the $45 per app.
3. The G5 iMac is being made second best because it's life is over. Yes, they're still selling it on their site but I would bet you that in 6 months if not sooner it will be gone. It doesn't matter if IBM all of a sudden came out with a 4Ghz G5, the days of PPC/IBM chips inside of Macintosh are over. Move on. Also, the only way they could make a G5 iMac compete with the new Intel iMac is to put in a dual-core or dual processor G5 into it...and that would drive costs up much more than what they are now. Besides, who in their right mind would invest in a brand new G5 based computer knowing it's life was so short. I mean, they "could" invest as they will be supported with the Universal Binary apps.
4. Yes, it sucks when you'll go to upgrade your hardware one day...perhaps a year or so from now, and you'll have to upgrade your software then. But we've all been through this before with System 6 to System 7 (which was a nightmare for those that remember that), 680x0 to PPC switch, and of course the System 9 to OSX switch.
Just keep making your music and don't worry what other people have. You don't have to upgrade, you don't have to rush right out and get a new computer....relax.