Nvidia G84 & G86 chips all faulty

[lucero1148]

the following news report on Nvidia G84 & G86 chips ARE ALL FAULTY has me concerned that MBP's with the G8600 chips are also affected.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07/09/nvidia.g84.g86.faulty/

"Despite NVIDIA's claims, the Inquirer reports all, not just a select batch, of the company's G84 and G86 chipsets used in GeForce 8400M and 8600M graphics cards are suffering from heat-related failures due to an unidentified substrate or bumping material used to help make the video hardware. They all share the same application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC), which is the source of the problems, in both notebook and desktop PCs. The chips have been failing since last year."

I bought my MBP in July 07 and had my logic board replaced May 28 and on Jun 27 I had to drop my MBP with Apple repair for exactly the same problem.
My MBP suffered over heating, frequent crashes until it would no longer chime on startup and the screen remained black. Again the logic board is being replaced.

From what I've seen on other forums there are a lot of owners out there having their screens die and their logic board replaced once or twice within their first year of ownership. I'm lucky my logic board died a 2nd time while still under its one year warranty but if it breaks down next month once again its going to be a catastrophe.

Apple should be addressing this product flaw.

Patrick

 

[hitnrun7]

The three of my friends who have MBPs with the 8600 have never had a single problem, and yes i have more than three friends before some idiot says that...

 

[jjahshik32]

Man now I'm seriously thinking about selling my mbp tonight~

 

[Sun Baked]

Well isn't that rather strange.

When the Al-iMac came out with all the ATI video problems people were irate and yelling for/demading the Nvidia chip.

Now the tables have turned and people want to dump the mobile Nvidia GPUs.

---

I wonder how many people sold their al-iMac and bought the MBP so they can get rid of the ATI 2400/2600 and its problems and go with the Nvidia 8600.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

Well isn't that rather strange.

When the Al-iMac came out with all the ATI video problems people were irate and yelling for/demading the Nvidia chip.

Now the tables have turned and people want to dump the mobile Nvidia GPUs.

---

I wonder how many people sold their al-iMac and bought the MBP so they can get rid of the ATI 2400/2600 and its problems and go with the Nvidia 8600.

I , for one, absolutely hate ATI with a passion (too many years of faulty drivers that were incompatible with my systems) and nvidia has me won over, especially with their workstation cards and nforce chipsets , but I havn't had a single issue on my two macbook pros. So i'm not ready to dump them *yet*.

 

[valvehead]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about this. Just because there are some bad chips out there it doesn't mean that yours will fail.

If this is caused by heat, then the fans should be turned up. I use smcFanControl all of the time. I never let my CPU and GPU temps get above 60°C. I'd rather put up with a little more fan noise than shorten the life of the chips.

Admittedly I shouldn't have to turn up the fans manually. Apple should change the temperature/fan speed mappings to turn up earlier.

 

[jjahshik32]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about this. Just because there are some bad chips out there it doesn't mean that yours will fail.

If this is caused by heat, then the fans should be turned up. I use smcFanControl all of the time. I never let my CPU and GPU temps get above 60°C. I'd rather put up with a little more fan noise than shorten the life of the chips.

Admittedly I shouldn't have to turn up the fans manually. Apple should change the temperature/fan speed mappings to turn up earlier.

Your missing the point, they reported that its "all" nvidia gpu's that are defective.

Eventually they will fail within the next year or two and if lucky 3.. what worries me the most is that I wanted to keep my laptop even after apple care and what if my gpu doesnt die until the 4th year.. then i'm totally screwed.

 

[prism]

Your missing the point, they reported that its "all" nvidia gpu's that are defective.

Eventually they will fail within the next year or two and if lucky 3.. what worries me the most is that I wanted to keep my laptop even after apple care and what if my gpu doesnt die until the 4th year.. then i'm totally screwed.

Uhhhh, after four years I doubt any computer will serve for more than just a paperweight.

 

[jjahshik32]

Uhhhh, after four years I doubt any computer will serve for more than just a paperweight.

I dont think today's mbp would just be paper weight in 4-5 years from now and could still be used as primary computer to do all websurfing/movies/music/dling etc.. and also to keep the laptop as a second machine or running a small server or even consider selling it after the 3rd year of apple care.

Its like the powerbook g4 owners that bought a powerbook just 3 years ago all failling right about now. And this isnt "what if" its more of "eventually and soon".

I'm definitely going to flip my mbp tomarrow morning on ebay and just loose a couple to few hundred and I think I"ll wait until the new mbp with ATI cards arrive sometime within the 1-2 months. And I'll pick up a mac mini for now, better yet pull out that P4 desktop from the closet and dust it for use in the next 1-2 months.

 

[gr8bob]

The three of my friends who have MBPs with the 8600 have never had a single problem, and yes i have more than three friends before some idiot says that...

Well, I beg to differ.. I'm on my second MBP (3rd nVidia chip if you count the logic board replacement on the first one) which has the 8600M GT chip in it (both the 128MB on the Merom/Santa Rosa and the 256MB on the Penryn/Santa Rosa) and I'm still having unexplained issue with application crashes due to the nVidia driver, NVChannel(GL): graphics timeout errors, and graphic corruption (on the first machine before and after the logic board replacement)..

I think it's time for nVidia to stand up and give out a clear statement before leaving a permanant bad impression on their own name.

or....

they just have crappy drivers all along for the 8x00 series..?

I did do a through system wipe-n-install and the symptoms are still there.. just makes me feel like ripping my hair out since I just got my replacement MBP for just less than a week and it's already exhibiting symptoms that are similar to the initial issue I'm facing with the first MBP.

 

[nyzballa12]

Hopefully they switch to ATI for the next line

 

[hitnrun7]

I've always preferred ATi anyway... but Nvidia cards are\were more powerful for quite a while...

 

[andrewdale]

I've never had any issues with my 8600. I've had it since the first week of March 2008, and I've had the vertical striping issue thrice. All the times, it fixed itself and hasn't been an issue since. I've never had the garbled graphics, nor have I had any shutdowns.

However, at the first case of a problem, you can bet this thing is going straight to Apple. Especially since this news has come out.

 

[bloo]

i'm on my 3rd MBP. all of them (including the one i still have) had the vertical line as well as the text *tearing* problem.

after complaining to apple for weeks, he just told me to wait until the next update came out in hopes that it would resolve the graphical issues. after 10.5.3 came out and no luck, he finally told me that apple would give me a new MBP whenever the next revision came out as well as bump me up to the middle 15" model (originally i bought the basic 15" model)

 

[bov]

I'm definitely going to flip my mbp tomarrow morning on ebay and just loose a couple to few hundred and I think I"ll wait until the new mbp with ATI cards arrive sometime within the 1-2 months. And I'll pick up a mac mini for now, better yet pull out that P4 desktop from the closet and dust it for use in the next 1-2 months.

Please, stop making people as pessimistic and paranoid as you are. Thank you.

This also refers to the "So are all mbp owners with the 8600m GT cards screwed?!?" thread of yours.

 

[jjahshik32]

Please, stop making people as pessimistic and paranoid as you are. Thank you.

Well this is just me so do what you gotta do.

As for me I'm currently selling the mbp on ebay and will wait until the new mbp come in the next couple of months and snag the one with the ATI card in it.

Either way like others mentioned, since the past I've always liked ATI cards better. Just dont know why its always never failed on me, never overheated, and for some reason to me the graphics looked cleaner and better (when comparing the similar specs to the nvidia at times).

I remember when last years mbp and current mbp used nvidia, I originally thought to myself damn.. no ATI.

Also a $3k laptop that's going to eventually fail sometime soon too just doesnt feel right to me.

 

[Bubba Satori]

The three of my friends who have MBPs with the 8600 have never had a single problem, and yes i have more than three friends before some idiot says that...

The packaging defect is not on a timer. It can happen anytime or hopefully never.

 

[kolax]

I've had my Santa Rosa MBP for nearly a year. I haven't noticed any performance issues (not that there is any for this card that are related to the problem) but it does get pretty warm, and sometimes my fans will just stay on at 6000RPM making a bloody racket, even though there is no CPU load.

The problem has persisted through reinstalled OS X, resetting SMC and PRAM. Is this the heat issue?

 

[new-Mac-owner]

Well How do they go bad what are the Signs my Laptop Gets Pretty hot I am going to Look alittle more if someone can Answer that,And if so whats apple going to have to do fix everyones Laptops?

 

[squeeks]

And this isnt "what if" its more of "eventually and soon".

proof?

I'm definitely going to flip my mbp tomarrow morning on ebay and just loose a couple to few hundred and I think I"ll wait until the new mbp with ATI cards arrive sometime within the 1-2 months. And I'll pick up a mac mini for now, better yet pull out that P4 desktop from the closet and dust it for use in the next 1-2 months.

you might be waiting a while, no where have we seen any rumors of a new MBP with an ATI chipset coming...

 

[jbaird77]

You cant even find a phone number or an email address on nVidia's site so there goes that option.

I guess I can call up Apple but I doubt they will do anything until nVidia announces that its official.

My temps are extremely strange though:

(March 2008 Version MBP) (Apps running since boot up, finder + firefox + minor background apps, none using any significant power GPU related)

CPU A = 55 cel.

GPU Diode = 69 cel.



O.O say what....


so when nVidia announces this, does this mean I get a free upgrade to the new MBP w/ different GPU? lol

 

[11800506]

If it is true, apple will probably start a replacement program. I doubt they would be that irresposible and just let them fail. Now we just have to wait for nvidia to issue a press release telling if the rumors are actually true or not.

 

[UltraNEO*]

just HYPE!

Despite NVIDIA's claims, the Inquirer reports all, not just a select batch, of the company's G84 and G86 chipsets used in GeForce 8400M and 8600M graphics cards are suffering from heat-related failures due to an unidentified substrate or bumping material used to help make the video hardware. They all share the same application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC), which is the source of the problems, in both notebook and desktop PCs. The chips have been failing since last year, and earlier this month, NVIDIA said the problems will drop the value of its shares to the tune of 25 percent, and is budgeting $200 million for repairs. According to the report, NVIDIA itself is officially keeping quiet about the specifics related to the problems, sticking to a story about a batch of now-discontinued parts that used a different and faulty bonding process. Engineers The Inquirer talked to maintain NVIDIA would not change the assembly process or material set for a batch.

The report goes on to say the problem causes failures sooner when the number of heat cycles increases, which is why laptops equipped with the affected parts are seemingly failing at higher rates. The company's claims that only HP products are affected also doesn't hold much water, the source says, as Dell and ASUS PCs with the affected chipsets are likewise failing.

Finally, NVIDIA is accused of knowing about the problem for well over a year and not taking any effective actions to address it. The fix NVIDIA is providing to users is a driver that will keep the fans of PCs on to help manage the thermal issue, although critics say such a solution will prolong the inevitable failure and shorten the battery life of notebook models.

Hmm... Don't you guys read?? Seems so many of you guys are getting hot under the collar for nowt!! The article does not mention anything about APPLE, actually, it says it only affects HP, Dell and Asus. I guess, they just discovered a faulty batch - it happens.

Humans often fail or perish, well before the temperatures that the CPU reaches,
would you call that a 'manufacturing' flaw or bio-defect?

 

[Sun Baked]

If it is true, apple will probably start a replacement program. I doubt they would be that irresposible and just let them fail. Now we just have to wait for nvidia to issue a press release telling if the rumors are actually true or not.

Look at the capacitor issue for the power supplies not long ago, probably see a repair extension similar to that.

We didn't see a replacement program, just a repair extension program for those machines affected -- which happens to be quite a few this round.

 

[ghostguts]

Hmm... Don't you guys read?? Seems so many of you guys are getting hot under the collar for nowt!! The article does not mention anything about APPLE, actually, it says it only affects HP, Dell and Asus. I guess, they just discovered a faulty batch - it happens.

Humans often fail or perish, well before the temperatures that the CPU reaches,
would you call that a 'manufacturing' flaw or bio-defect?

Not necessarily indicating that Apple isn't affected. HP, Dell and Asus are dealing with the problem in varying levels of activeness; thus, acknowledging the problem. Apple -- not so much.

Not trying to totally invalidate your claim, as I'm trying to stay optimistic too, because I'll need to buy a new Macbook Pro soon, but it just seems too risky and problematic at the moment with various individuals and groups denoting problems with their Macbook Pros.

Moreover, the Macbook Pros are using the chipset that is affecting Dell, Asus, HP and other PC laptops. As ominous and powerful as Apple can seem sometimes, they aren't immune to the problems of this chipset.

Here's to hoping that a solution will be found soon, so I, too, can join the MBP user group.