nVidia GTX 1080

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by AkuskaUK, May 7, 2016.

  1. AkuskaUK macrumors 6502

    AkuskaUK

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    #1
  2. pat500000 macrumors 603

    pat500000

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    #2
    DSC09525.jpg Does this look like 10-15 percent more than 980?
     

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  3. Zwhaler macrumors 603

    Zwhaler

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    #3
    I was just reading about this, and was wondering the same thing. Looks fast!
     
  4. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #4
    As stated by Nvidia and others, web drivers don't have yet have Maxwell optimisation let alone Pascal and there are serious bugs creeping into the last few builds (OpenCL crashes, visual bugs, video editing slow downs).

    I don't know why Nvidia isn't fixing these bugs because they should be trivial repairs if they didn't exist earlier in the year.

    There is also an issue with Mac EFI flashed cards (confirmed on my 680) no longer functioning properly in Windows when you launch professional apps such as Photoshop or 3D modelling apps. The GPU remains in low clock speed state and that means the apps are extremely slow. The only solution currently is to disable GPU acceleration in the app or remove the Mac EFI from the card.

    That is also a recent bug that wasn't there earlier in the year. It doesn't affect full screen apps like gaming. One could theorise that Nvidia has botched the OS X and Windows drivers on purpose to get cMP owners to migrate to PC and to teach Apple a lesson for choosing AMD.
     
  5. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #5
    Alternatively, due to the Mac market being only 10% of the computing landscape, and the classic Mac Pro user base being perhaps 0.1% of that (and the percentage of classic owners upgrading to brand new PC video cards being an even smaller number), they haven't committed any significant programming resources to the development of the Mac driver, given that Apple hasn't shipped an Nvidia equipped machine for about 3 years now...
     
  6. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #6
    That's what I speculated before. It seems their own web driver development team is very small and is only working on bare minimum support. There has been no advancement in the drivers since August 2015 except for adding support for El Capitan and Metal. They didn't even bother with an official Maxwell based Quadro for Macs.

    But the web driver and Windows driver not cooperating properly with Mac EFI cards at the same time is fishy.
     
  7. NY Guitarist macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

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    #7
    I'm very interested in this card too and hope MVC will offer to flash them for Mac use.
     
  8. bax2003, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    bax2003 macrumors 6502a

    bax2003

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    #8
    If you are ten years old, you could develop theory like that one.
     
  9. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #9
    I very much doubt they've deliberately broken it. Again, we're talking about incredibly small numbers of machines here, and all Nvidia will achieve by doing this will be screwing their own customers (and their own support department with tickets) - not Apple's. People still running classic Mac Pros have not been Apple customers for 3+ years at this point.

    But hey, maybe Nvidia are stupid; i have actually seen some really idiotic behaviour by PC and electronics hardware vendors in the past.
     
  10. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #10
    You mean theory, but furthermore you mean hypothesis.

    Yours,

    A 10 year old.
     
  11. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #11
    Please provide a link to these alleged EFI issues. I know theAMD PR folks would like to create the impression that Web Drivers have issues.

    BTW, our Maxwell EFI shares NOTHING with Kepler EFI, completely different code.

    But knowing how the EFI functions, I can't imagine real issues in Windows.

    Netkas and I both very busy. We would like to do Pascal EFI if Nvidia includes them in the drivers. Sadly our sales have been decimated by all of the wannabes and "me too" EBay folks. Lost a lot of reason to bother.

    But first we need to see if our friends at Nvidia are going to keep standing with us.
     
  12. Synchro3, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    Synchro3 macrumors 65816

    Synchro3

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    #12
    'Twice the power' refers to VR-Demo Mech VR. In reality GTX 1080 is 15 - 20% faster than GTX Titan X.

    Still a nice upgrade: Price, 8 GB VRAM, 180 Watt TDP, 1700 (default) - 2100 MHz (OC) air-cooled.
     
  13. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #13
    Anyone can replicate the bugs.

    On OSX:

    - With or without EFI card, have the latest web drivers installed for El Capitan 10.11.3 or 10.11.4
    - In Photoshop create an image 1000x1000 pixels. Resize it to, example, 3000x3000. If Open CL is enabled then Photoshop is crashing for many people. Solution, disable Open CL (or disable web driver if you have a non 9 series card.)
    - Again in Photoshop with web drivers and GPU acceleration enabled. Try to use the stamp tool or brush tool. Many people see massive artefacts appearing. The only solution is disable GPU acceleration or web driver.

    Read the comments:

    https://forums.geforce.com/default/...970-webdriver-346-03-05f01-under-osx-10-11-3/
    https://forums.geforce.com/default/...hop-2015-1-2-with-osx-webdriver-346-03-05f01/
    https://feedback.photoshop.com/phot...sh-on-a-mask-and-sometimes-with-healing-brush
    https://feedback.photoshop.com/phot...p-2015-1-2-artifacts-appears-when-using-brush
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7437317?start=0&tstart=0
    https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2094893 (States that Nvidia confirmed they are aware of the bug and they are working on it)
    http://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/nvidia-web-driver-photoshop-problems-on-el-capitan-10-11-3.188071/ (Beta driver fixed the issue for him but bugs returned again in final builds)

    Why do all those web driver users report the bugs on those forums but not on the Mac Rumors forum? Why am I the only person here doing it? Are those people more comfortable talking about it on other forums than here?

    On Windows:

    - With an EFI flashed card and latest Nvidia driver, launch Photoshop.
    - Try to use the marquee tool to make a selection. Or try to use the Liquify Tool. The cursor will jerk very badly and even halt.
    - Open an Open GL based app such as Maya or Mudbox. Create any primitive such as a cube. Try to move the cube around. The object moves very jerky and halts, same as Photoshop behaviour.
    - Solution for both issues above is to disable GPU acceleration or replace the Mac EFI with a normal PC ROM.
    - Gaming is not affected.
     
  14. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #14
    Soy, do you have any links to others having Windows issue? Out of our hundreds of customers not a single one has mentioned Windows issues. All EFI does for Windows is turn on PCIE 2.0.

    If you honestly think there is an issue you should use GPUZ to graph clock speeds and temps with and without EFI. If card not going into higher 3D speeds should take less than 20 minutes of work to prove it.
     
  15. netkas macrumors 65816

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    #15
    >Windows driver not cooperating properly with Mac EFI cards

    there is no cooperation in runtime between efi and windows drivers. when windows loaded the efi driver is purged from ram already.
     
  16. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #16
    Then how to explain the jerky and freezing performance above that only goes away if a PC ROM is restored to the card? I didn't say the EFI driver is in RAM. I said the Windows driver isn't cooperating with the Mac EFI ROM correctly.
     
  17. netkas macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Possible explanation:
    The rom (with efi part) is from different card, so bios part isn't working well with that card.
     
  18. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #18
    But everything was fine in Windows until a new driver broke it recently. That was a reference 680 2GB with the EVGA Mac EFI ROM everyone uses. Restoring it to the reference PC ROM fixed the issues on Windows.

    I outlined the issues above and people here should be able to replicate it if they weren't so silent compared to other forums.
     
  19. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #19
    I believe that you are in error, Soy.

    EFI has nothing to do with Windiws except PCIE 2 on our Maxwell cards.

    If you have any evidence, please produce it. I'm guessing you can't. Unless you use same BIOS, with/without EFI means nothing.
     
  20. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #20
    I spoke about the Windows problem existing on the 680 with Mac EFI.

    Ok for the Windows bug I'll restore the Mac EFI to the card and make a video. Someone else will then confirm if the bugs exists on 7 and 9 series.

    For the OSX bugs, I don't need to replicate that because it's already on 5-6 forums. It affects 6, 7 and 9 series.
     
  21. h9826790, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016

    h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #21
    I was following your post. If I understand correctly.

    1) You have a EVGA 680 (PC version)

    2) you flash it by yourself (that means the BIOS part is not originally from your card)

    Therefore, you can't rule out that is the problem by mismatching BIOS. Even it was ok, but it doesn't mean that a BIOS from other card will always work after driver update, right?

    What MVC suggest is that unless you can create a EFI ROM that 100% base on the original ROM, that "crash because Mac EFI" cannot be a valid argument. That's sounds very logical to me. But it sounds almost impossible to achieve for a normal Mac user like you and me.

    No matter your 680 how similar to the official Mac Edition card, they may not be identical. So, I think there is another way to prove it. e.g. You open the EFI ROM, remove (or ignore) the EFI part. And compare the BIOS part with your original ROM (but by bit). If they are identical, then IMO, your "EFI cause crash" can be valid as well.

    Or, if possible, remove the EFI part and then flash that possible problematic BIOS on to your card. To check if problem presist.

    I never touch anything about Nvidia EFI ROM. Not sure if it's as simple as the AMD EFI ROM to deal with. If it is, remove the EFI part should be achievable.
     
  22. goMac macrumors 603

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    #22
    I'm not sure why Nvidia tends to have so many driver issues, but as long as they persist Nvidia won't be coming back to the Mac Pro. As far as cMP's, I at least haven't seen any evidence that Pascal is coming to the Mac drivers? But people in this thread might have a better idea.
     
  23. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #23
    Let me clarify.

    I originally had a GTX 980, non-flashed. This card was suffering from the Nvidia web driver bugs outlined above and I grew tired of taking it out whenever I had to update OSX.

    So I downgraded to a GTX 680. This is a 2GB reference EVGA card. I used the 2GB ROM that everyone here uses that was ripped from the EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition. The same reference card, right? If not what are the differences?

    In OSX naturally the web driver bugs that I linked to above were still present, but at least I could use the built in OSX drivers for the card. That fixes the bugs on the Mac side.

    On the Windows side everything was fine. Games and apps were running as they should. Then a new driver was released by Nvidia (this occurred about 5-6 weeks ago). After that professional creative apps began to exhibit the jerking issues. I tried various settings but the only fix was either to disable GPU acceleration in those apps or to restore the EVGA reference ROM to the card.

    That's the story simply put. As this is a Mac forum we should be concerned with the Mac web driver bugs anyway.
     
  24. netkas macrumors 65816

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  25. pat500000 macrumors 603

    pat500000

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    #25
    That makes sense. VR wise....
     

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