NY Times Article on the NY Crew

[manman]

No, they did the next best thing - took a bunch of iPads "hostage" and then extorted people. No different if Target employees were to go to Best Buy, buy all their stock so no one else can, then resold them at Target for 100 percent markup.

LOL, you're killin me dude! This is EXACTLY what target does except for the 100% markup... they buy up as much stock as they can at a lower price, mark it up and sell it! They aren't 'holding it hostage', they WANT you to buy it.

The thing is that, Target KNOWS that if they set the price at 700 on a model everyone else is selling for 500, people will just go to a different store. Nobody is forcing you to buy the higher priced iPads...there is no coercion going on so this has nothing to do with extortion...

 

[Rafterman]

Sorry I forgot we're in feudal Japan and are samurais.

These folks probably won't even have a chance to own an iPad. They're just doing what they need to do to make a few bucks on the side when they're not doing crappy work with equally crap pay that often goes to immigrants.

There's no shame in making money. I don't think reselling retail items at a higher price is illegal, or else eBay wouldnt' allow it.

Oh please. Those people in NY are professional scammers who do this for a living. They roll around in luxury cars and live the good life. Where do you think they got the money to buy dozens of $800 iPads in the first place? Mowing lawns?

 

[Jcoz]

Absolutely they are selling them here. They set up "shop" right outside the Apple store and were reselling them to people who couldn't get them in store. And the charge is scalping. It can be applied to items, not just tickets. It happens all over the country? So that's how you justify it?

I "justify it" by understanding that supply and demand is exactly how this economy thingy works.

You can make a case that in limited supply, I guess Apple isn't charging enough because the market is saying those units are worth more than 2x what they are charging.

If you tried to buy an ipad 2 from a happy customer that loved their new ipad 2, how much do you think it would cost to convince that person to give it up?

An extra $100? $200? not with the shipping times and general uncertainty going on now....

Even that joe-six pack would probably have to be compensated handsomly to let go of his iPad.

If they are out on the street, you are right the cops need to bust them, although I see little difference between that and putting them on CL or Ebay.......do you?

Point is, if there weren't people willing to pay that much for one, those guys wouldn't be otu there doing what they are doing.

Supply........Demand. Its pretty frickin simple dude.

I'm not about to pay that price, so I'm not up in a hissie about it. Plenty of members of this very forum doing the same on a much smaller level of operation.

When supply increases then this market will go away for them.

 

[Rafterman]

i guess we should shut down ebay and craigslist then

I don't know about craigslist but eBay does police their boards for excessive gouging and organzied operations like this. They often shut down "questionable" sales practices.

 

[Rafterman]

LOL, you're killin me dude! This is EXACTLY what target does except for the 100% markup... they buy up as much stock as they can at a lower price, mark it up and sell it! They aren't 'holding it hostage', they WANT you to buy it.

The thing is that, Target KNOWS that if they set the price at 700 on a model everyone else is selling for 500, people will just go to a different store. Nobody is forcing you to buy the higher priced iPads...there is no coercion going on so this has nothing to do with extortion...

No, Target buys from suppliers, they do not raid other stores to create an artificial shortage. These scammers are absolutely forcing people to buy at their extortion prices because people want these items. Its not just a simple matter of saying no.

 

[Jcoz]

Oh please. Those people in NY are professional scammers who do this for a living. They roll around in luxury cars and live the good life. Where do you think they got the money to buy dozens of $800 iPads in the first place? Mowing lawns?

That's amazing, I had no idea that CE products were so hard to come by in NY friggin City, that massive groups of people are able to maintain lavish lifestyles charging 100% markups on all the shortages we suffer here day in and out

 

[manman]

they drive around in luxury cars and have money?!! Those bastards they must be evil.

It's funny that people treat this like it's an iPad going to someone who doesn't care about it as much as them. But... The resellers aren't keeping the iPads locked away in their basement, they WANT to sell them to people who want one! And apparently they want it more than you because they are willing to pay more! The market is working exactly as it's supposed to...sorry you didn't get in line early enough, get lucky enough to walk into a store at the right time, or just couldn't wait for apple to ship one to you. Life's a bitch.

 

[MSUSpartan]

No, Target buys from suppliers, they do not raid other stores to create an artificial shortage. These scammers are absolutely forcing people to buy at their extortion prices because people want these items. Its not just a simple matter of saying no.

Are they being forced or do they want the items? Make some sense.

I guess you are not at the level in school to take microeconomics yet, but at the end of the day to eliminate these "scalpers" as you call them is for Apple to raise the price where demand = supply. Apple's selling the things too cheap to create this secondary market.

 

[Rafterman]

That's amazing, I had no idea that CE products were so hard to come by in NY friggin City, that massive groups of people are able to maintain lavish lifestyles charging 100% markups on all the shortages we suffer here day in and out

These same guys were doing the same thing when Wii's were hard to come buy - or any recent popular electronics product. And if they aren't reselling at extortion prices, they are into other scams. Often this is gang-related. The Chinese Mafia runs scams like this, which are very popular because they can be profitable and the risk is low.

 

[manman]

No, Target buys from suppliers, they do not raid other stores to create an artificial shortage. These scammers are absolutely forcing people to buy at their extortion prices because people want these items. Its not just a simple matter of saying no.

Oh ****, this is bad news for me. Because I want a brand new BMW M3...I didn't realize that now I will be forced to pay someone $60k and get one... where am I going to get that money

 

[Jcoz]

These same guys were doing the same thing when Wii's were hard to come buy - or any recent popular electronics product. And if they aren't reselling at extortion prices, they are into other scams. Often this is gang-related. The Chinese Mafia runs scams like this, which are very popular because they can be profitable and the risk is low.

Manman and I have both made points to this - the Apple solution to this is to raise the price so that it meets demand and diminishes the possibilities of secondary markets.

This is all very, very basic economics.

 

[Rafterman]

Based on the responses I see here, I can see that having decency is nothing more than something to laugh at and bad behavior is fine as long as you can explain it away as just makin' a buck. But then that's what's happened to America in the 21st century. We've become a nation of liars, thiefs and scammers who only seem interested in what we can get away with withoiut going to jail.

 

[barkomatic]

they drive around in luxury cars and have money?!! Those bastards they must be evil.

It's funny that people treat this like it's an iPad going to someone who doesn't care about it as much as them. But... The resellers aren't keeping the iPads locked away in their basement, they WANT to sell them to people who want one! And apparently they want it more than you because they are willing to pay more! The market is working exactly as it's supposed to...sorry you didn't get in line early enough, get lucky enough to walk into a store at the right time, or just couldn't wait for apple to ship one to you. Life's a bitch.

Before you go off on a Randian tirade and start quoting Atlas Shrugged, the original article that was linked spoke of "organizers" using the immigrants to buy up iPads. You can bet that the immigrants weren't getting anywhere close to the markup those iPads are being sold for. Instead, they are being paid a much lesser amount to stand in line.

The question is, why don't the immigrants standing in line simply sell the iPads themselves? 1. They probably don't have the money to buy one and/or 2. The "organizers" have some type of hold over them.

I'm all for the free market, but something about the organized nature of this operation smells.

 

[Rafterman]

Oh ****, this is bad news for me. Because I want a brand new BMW M3...I didn't realize that now I will be forced to pay someone $60k and get one... where am I going to get that money

A BMW is worth $60,000. An iPad is not worth $2000. You poeple can't seem to grasp the concept of proce gouging.

 

[JRoDDz]

Solution: Only sell iPads to white guys. Racial profiling for teh win!

 

[manman]

...But then that's what's happened to America in the 21st century...

Yup. January 1, 2001: The day America became a capitalist nation.

 

[MSUSpartan]

A BMW is worth $60,000. An iPad is not worth $2000. You poeple can't seem to grasp the concept of proce gouging.

Then why are some people paying that much? They're worth as much as people are willing to pay for.

 

[Jcoz]

Based on the responses I see here, I can see that having decency is nothing more than something to laugh at and bad behavior is fine as long as you can explain it away as just makin' a buck. But then that's what's happened to America in the 21st century. We've become a nation of liars, thiefs and scammers who only seem interested in what we can get away with withoiut going to jail.

As opposed to the good ole upstanding and decent America founded by Slave owners who didn't want to pay taxes anymore?

Or the ones who graciously offered the American Indians fair and decent contracts for land until they had corralled what was left of them into those nice lavish resorts we call reservations?

Someone needs to take a step off the high horse and take a good look at some history books.

 

[OMGitworks]

Oh please. Those people in NY are professional scammers who do this for a living. They roll around in luxury cars and live the good life. Where do you think they got the money to buy dozens of $800 iPads in the first place? Mowing lawns?

Is your plumber and electrician or auto repair store or any other business that regularly marks up what they sell to you scammers too?

If they were selling food, clothing shelter or some other necessity in a time of emergency then I agree, but selling a legal, $500+ luxury item that nobody really needs to people willing and able to pay for it isn't a scam. A scam is where you pay for something you don't get or isn't what it is represented to be. Here they are being opportunistic, but nothing illegal.

 

[manman]

A BMW is worth $60,000. An iPad is not worth $2000. You poeple can't seem to grasp the concept of proce gouging.

No, it's more that you are unable to grasp the concept that people don't get "forced" to buy things. They make the decision on whether or not the price offered is worth it to them. price gouging and extortion are two different things.

Also, I'm not sure how the 'immigrants' standing in line changes anything I said. They are just another piece in a system that works based on the same principles. If they deem their time waiting in line worth the money being offered, they do it- if not, they don't have to. In the end, the people that WANT iPads are still getting them. They are just willing to pay more.

 

[Rafterman]

Then why are some people paying that much? They're worth as much as people are willing to pay for.

Because they are desperate for one. A BMW's parts are worth a certain amount, plus the markup necessary for making that company profitable. $60,000 is a fair price, based on that concept. $200,000 is not. Likewise, an iPad is worth $800, not $2000.

 

[OMGitworks]

Before you go off on a Randian tirade and start quoting Atlas Shrugged, the original article that was linked spoke of "organizers" using the immigrants to buy up iPads. You can bet that the immigrants weren't getting anywhere close to the markup those iPads are being sold for. Instead, they are being paid a much lesser amount to stand in line.

The question is, why don't the immigrants standing in line simply sell the iPads themselves? 1. They probably don't have the money to buy one and/or 2. The "organizers" have some type of hold over them.

I'm all for the free market, but something about the organized nature of this operation smells.

They should send someone from the IRS or NY Tax department as well as some INS folks down there just to make sure it is all legal.

 

[Rafterman]

Is your plumber and electrician or auto repair store or any other business that regularly marks up what they sell to you scammers too?

If they were selling food, clothing shelter or some other necessity in a time of emergency then I agree, but selling a legal, $500+ luxury item that nobody really needs to people willing and able to pay for it isn't a scam. A scam is where you pay for something you don't get or isn't what it is represented to be. Here they are being opportunistic, but nothing illegal.

Scalping and price gouging are illegal in New York State.

 

[JRoDDz]

Scalping and price gouging are illegal in New York State.

So basically what you are saying is that NYPD aren't doing their job? I find this very hard to believe!

 

[DougFNJ]

Everyone is entitled to make a living, this is true. And these people aren't scam artists, they are capitalizing on supply and demand. It's perfectly legal, and well within their rights to do so. At the same time, please don't mistake them for the poor workers that built them making .50/ hour being put to work in horrible conditions....you don't get enormous wads of $100 bills working in a sweatshop in Asia.

With that said, unfortunately what stinks for us is they are equivalent to the scalpers that purchase every ticket available to concerts or sporting events within minutes of those tickets going on sale. The real fans are now priced out of something that was MEANT to cost a lot less than the extreme markups that go out in the black market.

Some lady walking up to these guys saying shame on you? Does anyone think they really care? They are laughing at us because they know they can mark it up, and they know they will find plenty of people to PAY for those marked up inflated prices.....they are laughing all the way to the bank. How do WE fight it? Don't buy your iPad 2 from Craigslist, Ebay, or a street vendor....practice patience, and when more become available, their prices will be forced to drop.