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There is no way that they only started manufacturing in May, given the device was going to be announced in June. You only need to think about how many leaked parts, etc there has been to know that parts have been in mass production for some time. Prototype parts are under careful control and only available for access by a very few people. It is only when parts are mass produced, that potential for rogue employees to aquire parts without anyone noticing.

The thing is, you need to understand how the production lifecycle of a product works. I would imagine that all electronics manufacturers follow a similar process to the automotive company I work for.

With modern manufacturing techniques, it's possible (and desirable) to get out of the prototyping stage as early in the project as possible. Just because you're using production tooling, doesn't mean it's a saleable component though. The reasons for doing this are:

  • Modern CAD allows very realistic simualtion of compents and circuitry elimintating traditional early component testing of initial ideas.
  • Prototyping components is incredibly expensive. Something like a prototype phone chasssis could be anything from 10-100 times more expensive than a production part. This adds up when you need several hundred prototypes.
  • Production tooling costs are less than they used to be.
  • Experience and simulation reduces the number of design changes and hence reduces the likelyhood of expensive tool modifications.
  • Off tool parts give more reliable results during testing.

Where I work, we make products that use off tool (ie production) components as far away as 1-2 years before volume production. They are not salable though.

I suspect Apples design cycle will be something like:

1. Hacked about current generation phones to validate software.

2. First build up. I suspect the architecture is laid out early on, so chassis may be off tool, but boards might be prototype. Will lack certain things like new screen/cameras that don't help validate robustness of new design

3. First fully working and representative prototypes. Likely brought in components that are representative from suppliers such as screen, cameras and some of the boards. They'll still want to tune stuff at this point though, so Apple designed components like the main board my still be prototyped. iPad was likely the lead project for the A4, so that'll be off tool. Certain key areas will still need tuning. This will likely be board mounting and battery which can all need intensive testing to validate.

4. Final validation prototypes (maybe 2-3 months max before launch). This will run everything off tool minus perhaps a few minor bits of trim. They are probably salable, but with electronics where unit value is incredibly low, they probably won't reach the public.

At this point, some final mods to the production tools will be made. Any texturing to plastic/metal parts will be added (chemical process which etches surface of the tool) and final production orders will be placed. It's now up to the suppliers to try and meet the orders which isn't always possible. Late changes will delay orders as will discussions over final costs. Once the order is placed, it'll then be 6 weeks or so to initial samples which must be inspected.

Everything will be run as tight as possible. I suspect production ramp up started perhaps 3-4 weeks ago max. That said, it takes a few weeks for them to get up to full speed.

Apple will be trying as hard as they can to deliver as many units as possible. It's in their advantage. The longer the delay, the more people they miss who are only casually interested. Whilst us lot are all desperate for it, and will wait, I expect 90% of iPhone sales during its life cycle is an impulse buy. Purchase will depend on when a users contract comes up for renewal and availability. Right now, if Joe Bloggs (or Jon Doe for you over the pond) is looking for a new phone, given the choice between an HTC Hero now or a 3 week wait for an iPhone 4, they'll choose the HTC because on paper it looks as good, and they can get one tomorrow.
 
Are you really comparing all the Nokia's lineup WORLDWIDE, with a single Apple product in 5 countries ?
Do you know what are you speaking about ?

The original post was a clame that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in a single day. So yes, I know what I am speaking about.

Of course if the topic would have been that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in five specific countries for a single model during a single day then your point would be valid.

But since Apple is the only major phone manufacturer that sells only one or two phone models at a time that topic would make it kind of a special Olympics where only Apple competes.
 
2.4M as a cap for the first three weeks doesn't sound very good, considering they sold 2 million in the first weekend of 3Gs sales (I think I'm remembering that correctly, but let me know if I'm wrong), and considering the announcement occurred about 3 weeks before first ship, which means very low sales for THAT 3 week period as well. (Normally you'd expect to make up for that period with huge sales right after ship)

2 million in the first weekend of 3GS sales multiplied with 10 ("AT&T reported today that it had accepted 10-times the number of pre-order sales on the first day compared to the iPhone 3GS") equals 20 million iPhone 4 in the first week?

the demand could be that big... i know a lot of former iPhone-haters who are considering (or even more) to buy an iPhone and even more 3G-owners have already sold their old iPhone to be prepared for the launch here in Switzerland (about 750'000 iPhone owners out of 7.8 mio people).
 
The original post was a clame that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in a single day. So yes, I know what I am speaking about.

Of course if the topic would have been that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in five specific countries for a single model during a single day then your point would be valid.

But since Apple is the only major phone manufacturer that sells only one or two phone models at a time that topic would make it kind of a special Olympics where only Apple competes.

the posts were about demand for 1 model, i think that anyone with any sense would have realised that..... even if it was demand for the 1 model and extended to the world, nokia wouldn't beat it, unless you have figures around to show otherwise.... its still a very valid point....
 
The original post was a clame that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in a single day. So yes, I know what I am speaking about.

Of course if the topic would have been that no other manufacturer has had to cope with this kind of demand in five specific countries for a single model during a single day then your point would be valid.

But since Apple is the only major phone manufacturer that sells only one or two phone models at a time that topic would make it kind of a special Olympics where only Apple competes.

90% of Nokias phones are run of the mill handsets though. They use very few bespoke parts (sharing screens etc) and use off the shelf chips that are none specific. You could probably go out tomorrow and buy 2 million screens for one Nokia model tomorrow OFF THE SHELF! They're also incredibly simply designed and are ridiculously easy to assemble.

Comparing one of these to an iPhone and saying 'Why can't Apple make 10 million of them?' is like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Enzo and saying 'Why can't Ferrari make half a million Enzo's a year?'

You're kind of answering your own question. The iPhone is an almost completely custom design. Even the parts that aren't designed by them are at the very limit of production capability. You simply can't knock millions of 300+ ppi screens out just like that, and they're also specific to the iPhone. Add to this the complexity of the assembly (no visible screws, and tight packaging) and it requires a lot more time and effort than a Nokia 3310!
 
shouldn't new customers (or adding a line) have first priority... :confused:

That would mean all the current O2 customers become new Vodaphone customers, and all the current Vodaphone customers become new Orange customers, and all the current Orange customers become new O2 customers. And what purpose would that serve?

And if O2 was the only phone company doing this, then they would get some new customers buying a new iPhone, but lots of current customers would be very, very annoyed. Not only those who want a new iPhone and can't get it, but even those who don't want to buy an iPhone. I would be annoyed if I was treated as second class because I was an existing customer.
 
the posts were about demand for 1 model, i think that anyone with any sense would have realised that..... even if it was demand for the 1 model and extended to the world, nokia wouldn't beat it, unless you have figures around to show otherwise.... its still a very valid point....

Good thing they left out the white model, otherwise it kind of would have lessend their achievement, don't you think? Being able to handle two production lines instead of one and the related logistics - that would be kind of cheating :)

Sure, focusing on one model was unconventional but smart, Apple has proven that and Nokia is now suffering from its fragmented model lineup. You're right about that but it wasn't really the point.

The point was that Apple was overwhelmed when selling 600.000 units in one day and the defense was that no other manufacturer has to deal with the same kind of demand. What difference does it make how many models you're selling - more models would probably only make it harder to cope.
 
My point exactly. That's why it's proprietary information. It's not available publicly.

The number of models is irrelevant.

You've completely ignored everything else in my post. I understand that other manufacturers *may* choose to publish stats on various models. I understand that. But, as I pointed out, that doesn't mean the information is not available. I'm sure it's available, I just haven't seen it.

As for number of models, it is relevant. The reason is that different models require different manufacturing, and in many cases this will be different manufacturers. Not every model will have the same screen manufacturer, not every model will have the same CPU manufacturer, not every model will have the same battery manufacturer.

The point of all this is that there are *few* products in the world that on day one of release have to release xMillion products? In phones, how many models ever sell 600K on pre-order?

I don't believe a Nokia 6301 is the same product as a Nokia N900. Different fabricators, different assemblers, and different launch schedules which don't require the same as the *one* iPhone version being released (only once per year).
 
Comparing one of these to an iPhone and saying 'Why can't Apple make 10 million of them?' is like comparing a Ford Focus to a Ferrari Enzo and saying 'Why can't Ferrari make half a million Enzo's a year?'

You are absolutely right about the iPhone 4 being a more sophisticated phone than a cheap Nokia. But I don't think Apple's trouble handling 600 000 sales in one day where because the devices where hard to assemble.

The point was that SELLING 600 000 units in one day is nothing unheard of.

But this discussion is getting out of proportion. I salute Apple for a great product and look forward to buying the iPhone 4 ... in a few months once they manage to produce enough to sell them here too.
 
As for number of models, it is relevant. The reason is that different models require different manufacturing, and in many cases this will be different manufacturers. Not every model will have the same screen manufacturer, not every model will have the same CPU manufacturer, not every model will have the same battery manufacturer.

....

I don't believe a Nokia 6301 is the same product as a Nokia N900. Different fabricators, different assemblers, and different launch schedules which don't require the same as the *one* iPhone version being released (only once per year).

No, they don't all have the same components, but they will use a lot of non standard components. If you look at an iPhone as well, the general complexity of the mouldings and chassis is greater than a Nokia. There are more tool movements to achieve unibody design and very few visible fixings.

Furthermore, you're comparing the iPhone to the entire Nokia range which includes a whole host of low end models. A more realistic comparison would be the iPhone to Nokias iPhone competitor. Did that alone sell 600,000 on lauch? Probably not. Could Nokia have delieved this number? Incredibly unlikely.

High end products are expensive and difficult to manufacture. The very features that make people go 'wow' are down to the improvements over normal mass production. The reason you have visible fixings on a Nokia is to make it quick and cheap to make....go figure!
 
Good thing they left out the white model, otherwise it kind of would have lessend their achievement, don't you think? Being able to handle two production lines instead of one and the related logistics - that would be kind of cheating :)

Sure, focusing on one model was unconventional but smart, Apple has proven that and Nokia is now suffering from its fragmented model lineup. You're right about that but it wasn't really the point.

The point was that Apple was overwhelmed when selling 600.000 units in one day and the defense was that no other manufacturer has to deal with the same kind of demand. What difference does it make how many models you're selling - more models would probably only make it harder to cope.

its 600,000 preorders and thats US only, thats not counting stock they've already set aside for selling in the various stores and all the stock they've allocated for the other countries.

no other manufacturer has to deal with the same kind of demand for 1 model, simple as. they have other models of devices, such as the iPad, also demand for that exceeded.

as someone has already said, nokia's phones all comprise of mostly the same parts, which are off the shelf, whereas apples devices aren't. look at the iPhone 4 aluminum frame, thats not a common item and as they have said, its a new thing to make for them, nokias are just cheapo plastic stuff you can knock out easy.....
 
:confused:

umm, i really don't think they are (on eBay already).

Just stick it on a 6 day auction and have the phone ready to ship on launch day.

I'm sure there are plenty of speculators prospecting about 24hr turn-arounds. You could almost double your money if these media reports regarding shortages carry on.
 
iPhone 4 from o2

Just wanted to clear a few things up.

Any O2 customer - Pay & Go, Contact, Business or Broadband can sign up to an iPhone 4. This includes Pay & Go customers moving onto a contact - even if its the first time on contact as long as you have been with O2 from 24 May 2010.

You can only get a iPhone 4 on O2 from an O2 retail store, best buy, Phones 4 u and the Carphone warehouse and Apple retail stores.

You'll get a micro sim in the post if you pre registered your interest but you will be given one in store if you haven't got one already.

Hope that helps
 
Furthermore, you're comparing the iPhone to the entire Nokia range which includes a whole host of low end models.

Actually, what I was discussing is the exact opposite of what you've just said, which means we're probably agreeing completely.

My entire point is that the iPhone is always compared in so many ways to manufacturers such as Nokia and my question is how many models ever launch with a pre-order of 600K on day one? How many manufacturers ever have to ramp up to this level? My assumption is that it's few, if any.

But, so many people slam Apple for shortages or systems not being capable of a launch of this magnitude. Assuming there are no other (any? I've yet to see) products which launch with this popularity, the people that slam Apple for not being able to meet demand can go ...!
 
Fair point. I suspect I missinterpreted what you were saying. It's hard to work out what angle some people are coming from on here sometimes what with all the trolling and fanboyism!
 
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

Any O2 customer - Pay & Go, Contact, Business or Broadband can sign up to an iPhone 4. This includes Pay & Go customers moving onto a contact - even if its the first time on contact as long as you have been with O2 from 24 May 2010.

You can only get a iPhone 4 on O2 from an O2 retail store, best buy, Phones 4 u and the Carphone warehouse and Apple retail stores.

You'll get a micro sim in the post if you pre registered your interest but you will be given one in store if you haven't got one already.

Hope that helps

thats different to what i was told. interesting. tho what are the chances they will have them in store when i get back from my holiday on july 2nd!! lol
 
thats different to what i was told. interesting. tho what are the chances they will have them in store when i get back from my holiday on july 2nd!! lol

An iPhone 4... not very likely to be honest. But mirco sims are plentiful lol.
 
An iPhone 4... not very likely to be honest. But mirco sims are plentiful lol.

haha its frustrating, but booked the holiday ages ago, but thought last week that i should at least be able to order online. but nope! gits!! well maybe i'll be lucky and there will be a batch of stock come in the week i get back. either that i order online from orange whilst abroad on holiday!
 
haha its frustrating, but booked the holiday ages ago, but thought last week that i should at least be able to order online. but nope! gits!! well maybe i'll be lucky and there will be a batch of stock come in the week i get back. either that i order online from orange whilst abroad on holiday!

fingers crossed
 
Just so im sure

So let me get this straight.

I preordered the iphone (in london) and got an email saying it will be held for me.

I wanted to get it on o2, currently i do not have contract with any provider (cancelled my orange contract last month).

So when i go to pick up my phone and have to select my network i can NOT chose o2?? Is this correct?? if so this is an unbelievable stupid decision, as they will be losing my business and i will simply chose orange instead.

Or, are you only able to get an iphone 4 on o2 contract if you want to get it from an o2 store?

I called the Apple store and they said they havent been told not to set up contracts for new o2 customers but if thats what o2s site says that may be the case.

I called o2 and they said i can get it and chose o2 as my network....but thats the opposite of what the site says.
 
So let me get this straight.

I preordered the iphone (in london) and got an email saying it will be held for me.

I wanted to get it on o2, currently i do not have contract with any provider (cancelled my orange contract last month).

So when i go to pick up my phone and have to select my network i can NOT chose o2?? Is this correct?? if so this is an unbelievable stupid decision, as they will be losing my business and i will simply chose orange instead.

Or, are you only able to get an iphone 4 on o2 contract if you want to get it from an o2 store?

I called the Apple store and they said they havent been told not to set up contracts for new o2 customers but if thats what o2s site says that may be the case.

I called o2 and they said i can get it and chose o2 as my network....but thats the opposite of what the site says.


Hello,

The "only existing customers policy" only applies if you get the phone directly from an O2 store. If you have pre ordered on the Apple web site and are collecting the phone from an Apple store you can take the phone on contract or Pay as you go from O2 as a new customer.

Don't worry about it, you will be able to set your iphone 4 up on a new o2 contract o2 Pay & Go if you've already ordered it from Apple and collect it form an apple store.

Cheers,
 
Hello,

The "only existing customers policy" only applies if you get the phone directly from an O2 store. If you have pre ordered on the Apple web site and are collecting the phone from an Apple store you can take the phone on contract or Pay as you go from O2 as a new customer.

Don't worry about it, you will be able to set your iphone 4 up on a new o2 contract o2 Pay & Go if you've already ordered it from Apple and collect it form an apple store.

Cheers,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

You have been more helpful than the people at o2 and the apple store combined.

Thank you.
 
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