Official Merom (Core 2 Duo) Launch on Monday?

[ckeck]

The assumption you're making is actually a common misconception about speed. Clock frequency across architectures are never suitable to compare. What is done in one clock cycle very often varies significantly from architecture to architecture. The clock game is one that Intel and AMD have played forever to get people to upgrade, but it is only an accurate comparison within a given architecture.

When RISC architectures were still the rage, people were often impressed by the fast clock speeds they could attain. What people didn't understand is that little more than an addition or multiplication could be done in one cycle. Much more complicated instructions are typically done by CISC CPUs, which is how I would classify most modern general purpose CPU's. Even among CISC CPU's, architectures accomplish things very differently across different architectures, and so clock speed will not really tell you a whole lot about tangible performance gain.

This is not a comparison between an AMD and Intel chip.

I am also not making an assumption...Apple is benchmarking the older iMac with the older architexture chip to the newer and faster (also faster clocked) Core 2 Duo.

Not only is the Core 2 Duo faster because of the internal technology, but the clock speed is also playing a big role in this benchmark.

No wrong assumptions here. I stated a simple fact.

 

[rtharper]

This is not a comparison between an AMD and Intel chip.

I am also not making an assumption...Apple is benchmarking the older iMac with the older architexture chip to the newer and faster (also faster clocked) Core 2 Duo.

Not only is the Core 2 Duo faster because of the internal technology, but the clock speed is also playing a big role in this benchmark.

No wrong assumptions here. I stated a simple fact.

Yes, but you drew the wrong conclusion. Two different architectures don't have comparable clock speeds. That's like comparing a number and a letter.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

This is not a comparison between an AMD and Intel chip.

I am also not making an assumption...Apple is benchmarking the older iMac with the older architexture chip to the newer and faster (also faster clocked) Core 2 Duo.

Not only is the Core 2 Duo faster because of the internal technology, but the clock speed is also playing a big role in this benchmark.

No wrong assumptions here. I stated a simple fact.

Seconded. At first I was reading back to see if anyone mentioned AMD, this seemed like the poster was talking about a non-intel chip...

 

[rtharper]

Seconded. At first I was reading back to see if anyone mentioned AMD, this seemed like the poster was talking about a non-intel chip...

It's irrelevant of brand. They've announced that Core 2 Duo is an architecture change, the number of stages per cycle may be different, undoubtedly the fetch-decode-execute cycle implemented differently, and as someone said before, SSE instructions went from two clock cyles to one. They probably deal with several SIMD instructions differently. I don't know, but all I am saying is clock speed is, generally speaking, not indicative of an actual benchmark performance difference with two different architectures.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

It's irrelevant of brand. They've announced that Core 2 Duo is an architecture change, the number of stages per cycle may be different, undoubtedly the fetch-decode-execute cycle implemented differently, and as someone said before, SSE instructions went from two clock cyles to one. They probably deal with several SIMD instructions differently. I don't know, but all I am saying is clock speed is, generally speaking, not indicative of an actual benchmark performance difference with two different architectures.

It's called the megahertz myth, thanks for explaining it to me... However I agree with both of you, I don't think clock speed is playing as big a part in the benchmark increases as some think, however, I do not think the system architecture has changed so drastically that clock speed has become irrelevant. The only problem is, that Merom really *isn't* much faster then Core Duo, it's simply a marketing tactic to compare the very high quality chip to the older, slower one. Apple needs to pull the highest figures possible, and understandably so, but this is a processor upgrade, and should not be taken as a major revolution in personal computing.

 

[ergle2]

It's irrelevant of brand. They've announced that Core 2 Duo is an architecture change, the number of stages per cycle may be different, undoubtedly the fetch-decode-execute cycle implemented differently, and as someone said before, SSE instructions went from two clock cyles to one. They probably deal with several SIMD instructions differently. I don't know, but all I am saying is clock speed is, generally speaking, not indicative of an actual benchmark performance difference with two different architectures.

Actually, Core 2 is more an enhancement on Core than anything else. They're pretty similar. IIRC, Core 2 adds an extra integer unit and doubles the number that can handle "complex" instructions, as well as the SSE enhancements. I think the pipeline adds a couple of stages, too.

These various additions add up to Core 2 being around 20% faster than core at the same clockspeed.

Of course, Core, Pentium M, etc. are all evolutionary changes going all the way back to the Venerable P6 arch.

 

[ckodonnell]

You bother me.

Don't bother waiting. Just get it.

 

[generik]

You bother me.

Who are you? I am not bothered.

 

[Nuks]

You may be right, though. Was the iMac previously part of the deal? because it's not there anymore.... just the mac pro, mbp, and macbook..

 

[ruwi]

I am ready for tuesday

My wallet is ready for tuesday , i ll be at the apple expo as i live in paris.
I hope for some good news

 

[ckodonnell]

Allow me to clarify

You bother me.

Who are you? I am not bothered.

You're obviously not bothered by giving contradictory recommendations all the time either!. This is what bothers me. Now admittedly I'm "no one". But allow me to explain ...:

From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811841#post2811841

Nooo! Cancel it!

You've waited so long, surely you can wait a wee bit more! It is coming soon!

From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2812160#post2812160

Well, all machines are outdated the day it is bought. Just as how every baby born is destinied to die someday, but that's another issue

You gotta evaluate what's more important to you, getting it cheap with the free iPod, or having the latest and greatest.

From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811371#post2811371

Don't bother waiting. Just get it.

So which is it? Wait or buy? You're giving contradictory indications in different threads. That bothers me. If people are really ready to plunk down $3k for a nice laptop (I'm speaking to MBP buyers here, because that really is the issue. MB buyers are super loopy to think that both systems will get rev-ed at the same time, then the only big difference will be screen size/dimensions and GPU).

Sorry if my original post wasn't clear enough.

 

[AppleIntelRock]

You're obviously not bothered by giving contradictory recommendations all the time either!. This is what bothers me. Now admittedly I'm "no one". But allow me to explain ...:

From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811841#post2811841


From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2812160#post2812160


From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811371#post2811371


So which is it? Wait or buy? You're giving contradictory indications in different threads. That bothers me. If people are really ready to plunk down $3k for a nice laptop (I'm speaking to MBP buyers here, because that really is the issue. MB buyers are super loopy to think that both systems will get rev-ed at the same time, then the only big difference will be screen size/dimensions and GPU).

Sorry if my original post wasn't clear enough.

You spent a lot of time on that .

 

[ckodonnell]

Yeah...too much really.

It's sort of like debugging an app. You can either take a stab in the dark and hope it makes a difference (my original post) or actually step through and find the bug.

You spent a lot of time on that .

EDIT: Also complicated by the fact that I'm grumpy that I don't have a merom MBP at least on order. On the up-side, configuring a similar Dell XPS and MBP comes up to within $40.00. The notable exception being the Dell shipping on the 22nd with a C2D.

 

[frogger2020]

MB buyers are super loopy to think that both systems will get rev-ed at the same time, then the only big difference will be screen size/dimensions and GPU).

Aren't those the only differences currently?

 

[generik]

You're obviously not bothered by giving contradictory recommendations all the time either!. This is what bothers me. Now admittedly I'm "no one". But allow me to explain ...:

From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811841#post2811841


From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2812160#post2812160


From: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2811371#post2811371


So which is it? Wait or buy? You're giving contradictory indications in different threads. That bothers me. If people are really ready to plunk down $3k for a nice laptop (I'm speaking to MBP buyers here, because that really is the issue. MB buyers are super loopy to think that both systems will get rev-ed at the same time, then the only big difference will be screen size/dimensions and GPU).

Sorry if my original post wasn't clear enough.

You haven't read deeper into my previous posts.

My take on this? If you are the free iPod promotion with the MACBOOK, go for it. The discount is fairly substantial for the relatively low price of the Macbook, not like you will lose that much when you eventually resell anyway.

If you are in the market for the MBP and thinking of going for the free iPod deal, well, don't get suckered, because come the next revision your MBP will be worth diddily squat. Well, it wouldn't be that worthless... but don't forget the price difference between the MB and the MBP is essentially for that 1" larger screen and the GPU.. sure there are niceties like the backlit keyboard and all, but all those don't really contribute that much to the computer's value. Hence that said IMO the MBP has a more elastic value than the MB, and hence more susceptible to depreciation.. of course given such circumstances it'd be best to wait for a new MBP.

 

[generik]

Yeah...too much really.

It's sort of like debugging an app. You can either take a stab in the dark and hope it makes a difference (my original post) or actually step through and find the bug.

Tell me what company you work for so I will keep in mind to avoid their products. I reread those posts you highlighted again and I have been very clear on my differing stance between the MB and the MBP, geez...

 

[ckodonnell]

I can buy that argument. Just seemed otherwise in the posts I was reading.

Edit: You have now been clear and it makes sense. Your previous posts were not this transparent.

My take on this? If you are the free iPod promotion with the MACBOOK, go for it. The discount is fairly substantial for the relatively low price of the Macbook, not like you will lose that much when you eventually resell anyway.

If you are in the market for the MBP and thinking of going for the free iPod deal, well, don't get suckered, because come the next revision your MBP will be worth diddily squat. Well, it wouldn't be that worthless... but don't forget the price difference between the MB and the MBP is essentially for that 1" larger screen and the GPU.. sure there are niceties like the backlit keyboard and all, but all those don't really contribute that much to the computer's value. Hence that said IMO the MBP has a more elastic value than the MB, and hence more susceptible to depreciation.. of course given such circumstances it'd be best to wait for a new MBP.

 

[Nuks]

Macbook ship times are up to 5-7 days...

I'm ordering mine now, as we speak. Hopefully it'll get here soon, because I'm excited as hell!


I decided to get it now because I really need the 200 bucks that selling the nano will get me. That and I don't think I'll even need the differences that Merom will bring.


So, in about a week (hopefully), I will have my first mac!

 

[iBorg20181]

Macbook ship times are up to 5-7 days...

But MBP's are still "shipping within 24 hours," and since they'll clearly get the Merom upgrade before MB's do, I don't think you can put much stock in this (that is, if you're inferring that a MB upgrade is imminent).

C'mon, Apple! I'm dying' here, waiting for my Merom MBP!!!!



iBorg

 

[e²Studios]

I ordered my 15" with my EDU discount tonight, Merom or not it will be faster than the G3 900 iBook i use now. considering i keep laptops for 4 years on average i think that im safe from any short term depreciation factors. That and i honestly will be surprised to see Apple release a Merom laptop before Jan 07. Beyond that im not a hype lemming that seems to wait endlessly to get the "latest" that will be obsolete after the 4+ years that ill be using it.

Ed

Edit: shipping is 3-4 days ATM FYI for MBP

Edit 2: With the switch to intel i can see apple hardware being as worthless as Windows hardware after 4-6 months. You wait for merom, does that mean you are going to wait 4-6 months more for the next chip to take over the MBP? It just gets silly to wait after you think about it... That is if you really were going to buy it in the first place instead of bitching and whining on a forum...

 

[ergle2]

Edit 2: With the switch to intel i can see apple hardware being as worthless as Windows hardware after 4-6 months. You wait for merom, does that mean you are going to wait 4-6 months more for the next chip to take over the MBP? It just gets silly to wait after you think about it... That is if you really were going to buy it in the first place instead of bitching and whining on a forum...

I'd guess it'll hold its value a little better by dint of being able to run MacOS X -- unless the unlikely event of OS X being licensed to third-party vendors should come to pass.

Having said that, that's all the more reason for not buying immediately before a hardware update, IMO.

It's silly to wait if you need a machine right now, or it the next update is some time off. If it could be in a week or two, though, not at all...

 

[iBorg20181]

I ordered my 15" with my EDU discount tonight, Merom or not it will be faster than the G3 900 iBook i use now. considering i keep laptops for 4 years on average i think that im safe from any short term depreciation factors. That and i honestly will be surprised to see Apple release a Merom laptop before Jan 07. Beyond that im not a hype lemming that seems to wait endlessly to get the "latest" that will be obsolete after the 4+ years that ill be using it.

Ed

Edit: shipping is 3-4 days ATM FYI for MBP

Edit 2: With the switch to intel i can see apple hardware being as worthless as Windows hardware after 4-6 months. You wait for merom, does that mean you are going to wait 4-6 months more for the next chip to take over the MBP? It just gets silly to wait after you think about it... That is if you really were going to buy it in the first place instead of bitching and whining on a forum...

3 points:

1. Apple would be insane to wait for a Merom MBP until 2007. They're using the same Intel chips as everyone else, so they have NO reason to wait. Everyone else will have Merom laptops shipping in a couple of weeks .... and so will Apple. 2007? Not ... gonna ... happen!

2. If you need a MBP now, buy it. But with an imminent upgrade to Merom MBP's, unless you cannot wait this short time (and many people can't, they need it right now!), it would be foolish to buy a Yonah MBP now. In a couple of weeks, you can get the same Yonah MBP discounted at hundreds less than you'll pay today, or get an upgraded Merom MBP for the same $$ as Yonah is today. I want to replace my TiBook, but I'll wait out this 1-2 weeks, and order a new Merom MBP within minutes of announcement!

3. Apple may be using the same intel chips as PC competitors, but the style, build and innovations are still all-Apple. And they'll continue to command far greater resale $$ than Dell, Acer, HP, etc., because of that.



iBorg

 

[Zadillo]

I ordered my 15" with my EDU discount tonight, Merom or not it will be faster than the G3 900 iBook i use now. considering i keep laptops for 4 years on average i think that im safe from any short term depreciation factors. That and i honestly will be surprised to see Apple release a Merom laptop before Jan 07. Beyond that im not a hype lemming that seems to wait endlessly to get the "latest" that will be obsolete after the 4+ years that ill be using it.

Ed

Edit: shipping is 3-4 days ATM FYI for MBP

Edit 2: With the switch to intel i can see apple hardware being as worthless as Windows hardware after 4-6 months. You wait for merom, does that mean you are going to wait 4-6 months more for the next chip to take over the MBP? It just gets silly to wait after you think about it... That is if you really were going to buy it in the first place instead of bitching and whining on a forum...

Why do people have this attitude of the hardware becoming "worthless"? This mentality is really just nuts. Just because something is not the latest and greatest doesn't mean it is worthless.

From a technology standpoint this is ridiculous. Is every Core Duo notebook out there suddenly worthless because Core 2 Duo laptops are coming out? No, of course not. They still work just fine.

More specifically, are Pentium M-based laptops still worthless? Again, I would say "no"; Pentium M-based laptops may be a couple of generations behind now, but they still work well, and even if you're talking about "worthless" in the sense of resale value I don't agree with this. People are still selling Pentium M-based systems for a decent chunk of change.

-Zadillo

 

[ckeck]

C'mon APPLE...tomorrow PLEASE!

 

[rtharper]

Why do people have this attitude of the hardware becoming "worthless"? This mentality is really just nuts. Just because something is not the latest and greatest doesn't mean it is worthless.

That's very true. But depending on what said person does, the value of the hardware goes down for them rather quickly as new technology replaces it and software developers keep pace to use up the newly bought system resources.