Official: The New Apple TV

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Doubt it - Apple hasn't cared about Frontrow for years, and I don't think they're about to start now. Luckily, the new Plex 9 is looking pretty nice..

I know. So if you like the TV UI, you have to live with the hardware compromises Apple chooses for you...

And if you get hardware fully capable vs.- say- a $100 BD player or WD box- you have to live with the software compromise Apple chooses for you.

Or, turn to something else and loose the nice benefits of iTunes managing everything.

Plex does look good- especially the new version. I'll watch for the reviews to see if the non-techies find it reasonably intuitive. My household would need something fairly easy to use like the TV UI, but we would also like to have something to let the 1080HDTV fully stretch it's legs.

I had such high hopes that Apple would nail it this time. But what's 4 more years? The TV "micro" will be half this one's size, be missing a few more ports, and might finally launch with 1080p in 2014. I can hardly wait.

Rumor has it, it might have a normal USB port too.

 

[Deepek]

Wow Mixed Reviews.

Not sure if I should buy or not. Hey it's only $99

 

[hitekalex]

I know. So if you like the TV UI, you have to live with the hardware compromises Apple chooses for you...

And if you get hardware fully capable vs.- say- a $100 BD player or WD box- you have to live with the software compromise Apple chooses for you.

I don't really feel that I am compromising anything with Apple TV, hardware or software wise.

It's simple in my house.. I have a BluRay player in my main movie room for "full experience" movie watching - 1080p, uncompressed 7.1 audio, the works. For everything else - there's Apple TV. 720p/30fps is plenty good for my local content and Internet streaming.

 

[mrrippey]

Once Jailbroken its going to rock

Figure can connect to a NAS via Ethernet, attached HD via microUSB (under the HDMI), run Boxee, Stream from Airport plus NetFlix and the other goodies, I'll order mine now and give my original aTV to the kids.

Rippey

 

[Holty123]

I have ATV with a 2TB external hard drive with over 500 films on it! my family love it no more swapping dvd's instant access to all my movie collection and music etc it's the perfect media device.........

the new ATV is not a move forward come on Apple which consumers did you listen to that said they didn't want a hard drive???????? just hope the ATV flash guys hack the thing so you can use the micro usb port

i am a Apple fanboy and i will not be buying the new ATV!!!!!!!

 

[Aldaris]

eh, it's like an airport express, with video too, and not tossing out wifi...

I could see buying one to toss in my bag to take on the go. Most of my iMedia is spanning across 4 hard drives in an old G4, but when I'm off to a buddy's place who doesn't have an AppleTV. For those of use who like whatever shiny new thing Steve brings us we'll find a use for it. But I think they implemented the new AppleTV in such a way that they missed the mark.

Maybe when we get AppleTV 3.0 we'll get the best of both worlds!

i.e.

A4 Processor,
Optional External Storage (or 'partition/folder on Time Capsule or AirPort Extreme external storage)
Netflix
Buy or Rent (If you buy, on demand/streamed copy ready to go, and automatically added to your queue.)
AirPlay on all devices (I think that is an A4 req. that leaves the early adopters out).

 

[Holty123]

You still can. Rip your DVDs to your computer, stream them to your tv. What's the problem?

Why would you? why have two devices up and running to watch it on your TV? my advice for anyone who doesn't have ATV buy one now before the new one hits the stores my guess current ATV's will be like rocking horse s*@t

 

[gkarris]

It's called HDCP and all Apple's content has it. It wants a digital only connection all the way through.

Actually - you're right.

Looking at the converter boxes, they are non-HDCP HDMI to Component. Purchased iTunes shows will not work...

 

[BoulderBum]

I liked the addition of Netflix and .99c TV show rentals, but otherwise I think Apple may have taken a few steps back with the device.

My primary use for my current Apple TV is streaming movies from my computer and it looks like I'll have to navigate down an extra menu to do that now.

The second biggest use was streaming Video Podcasts from my "favorites", and it looks like that capability is gone altogether!

I don't mind the lack of offline storage, but I appreciated the option to buy bargain-bin movies and I wouldn't know what they were, save for the Apple TV interface!

Hopefully Apple releases a software update for existing owners that includes Netflix, but leaves the other stuff alone.

Also, I'm a bit disappointed that the new Apple TV didn't pick up App Store support. That would have unlocked SO MUCH capability!

 

[mrrippey]

Also, I'm a bit disappointed that the new Apple TV didn't pick up App Store support. That would have unlocked SO MUCH capability!

I am thinking either because is is running a modified version of OSX like the current aTV or they have not figured out how to make the applications interact-able (is that a word?) with the remote / iOS devices.

Rippey

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I don't really feel that I am compromising anything with Apple TV, hardware or software wise.

It's simple in my house.. I have a BluRay player in my main movie room for "full experience" movie watching - 1080p, uncompressed 7.1 audio, the works. For everything else - there's Apple TV. 720p/30fps is plenty good for my local content and Internet streaming.

To each his own. I own TVs but I definitely feel it's a tough compromise of either great UI on 720p max or a lessor UI on 1080p hardware (such as the mini). 720p is not terrible ("plenty good" can fit), but it's a shame that this new version couldn't just take the extra step to directly compete with the 2 key benefits of BD head-to-head.

Lots of people are buying 1080-capable HDTVs. In that they learn- true or not (can see it or not) that 1080p is "true HD". It's not a hard little number to remember- even for the average Joe. If Joe wants to max out his HDTV, his choices continue to NOT include TV. In 2010. Wow.

Once you get past that, the compromise becomes how to try to make the generally good arrangement of iTunes managing all your digital media work with something else so that you can do what the new TV can't. And if you want the simple, "grandma friendly" UI, you pretty much must compromise. Still. In 2010.

1080p probably wouldn't have added a cent to the cost of the box, nor adversely impacted Apple's margin on each unit sold. They might have been able to get the 1080p part cheaper than 720p parts because of economies of scale (who's putting 720p max parts in set-top boxes besides Apple?). Those happy with 720p, or worried about bandwidth constraints or storage issues, or can only imagine content above 720p coming from the iTunes store and nowhere else... would still get every bit of their 720p experience completely maxed out on hardware capable of playing back 1080p.

But it doesn't work the other way. Still. In 2010.

 

[colinmack]

If you bought it on iTunes, you can still watch it. If you converted from DVD, you can still watch it. If you shot it with a camcorder or iPhone or whatever, you can watch it. In fact, you can probably stream from your iPhone right to your Apple TV.

Your iTunes library is still accessible from your Apple TV. You just can't store it on the Apple TV any longer.

Yes, it has to be in a certain format, but remind you, ripping hollywood DVD's is illegal, I think. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has certain rules in place for its own devices to satisfy studios. I doubt if Apple support for VIDEO_TS folders to Apple TV they'd be getting any sort of $0.99 rentals.

I think you misunderstood my point - I don't care about local storage on the device, I stream everything from my computer today. What I said was: "except that all those compatible converted movies and TV shows are now relegated to having to drill 5 menu levels down into the Computers option."

My annoyance is that my current Apple TV will allow me to access all movies in one place, regardless of whether they're online/rented or local. With the new interface, they made a conscious choice to make it harder to access non-rental content - if I want to access a local movie, I have to leave the Movies section (which is obviously not very intuitive), back out a few menu options, move over to Computers, drill a bunch of menu options down...it's basically been relegated to sleeping in the barn.

Yes, I can still access it, but it's now a major pain. It would have cost them nothing to leave it alone and allow the device to serve both purposes seamlessly.

 

[nutmac]

Lack of support for external hard disk is a huge downer. Not everyone wants to leave their Mac or PC on all the time. At the very least, make it support hard disks attached to AEBS or Time Capsule. I suspect another AEBS version with AirPlay support is forthcoming.

 

[TheCheapGeek]

I agree, the shifted all the focus to the rentals. Thats great if thats how you want to watch tv but not me. So now I have to dig into multiple sub menus to watch most of my content.

I think you misunderstood my point - I don't care about local storage on the device, I stream everything from my computer today. What I said was: "except that all those compatible converted movies and TV shows are now relegated to having to drill 5 menu levels down into the Computers option."

My annoyance is that my current Apple TV will allow me to access all movies in one place, regardless of whether they're online/rented or local. With the new interface, they made a conscious choice to make it harder to access non-rental content - if I want to access a local movie, I have to leave the Movies section (which is obviously not very intuitive), back out a few menu options, move over to Computers, drill a bunch of menu options down...it's basically been relegated to sleeping in the barn.

Yes, I can still access it, but it's now a major pain. It would have cost them nothing to leave it alone and allow the device to serve both purposes seamlessly.

 

[Chwisch87]

At only 99 dollars ... its probably on my Buy list. As a way to stream my itunes to my home audio is probably worth it alone..

IDK ... count me surprised they didn't include pandora. If its running iOS there is probably room in there for future updates. Netflix was pretty much a given. What about Viacom and other content providers?? HBO, Showtime??? I mean it its just FOX and ABC that is a little underwhelming.

I mean if you really want to strike at the heart of Cable, you need things like HBO and ESPN.

Microsoft is trying this by including ESPN ... 3500 live events in HD.. there is no reason why Apple TV couldn't have this either.

Who knows though. I would have really liked to see an all you can eat subscription. So far no reason for me to get rid of cable..

 

[GermanSuplex]

Bottom line, the $99 price point and ease of use will probably get a lot more people in the door. Netflix and iTunes library streaming will help keep the people who already own one onboard. For people desperate for 1080p or other missing features, the Apple TV was likely never geared towards those people and it may never be. I really don't know anyone who streams 1080p to their TV, but I know plenty of people who rent and buy iTunes movies/tv shows. That probably explains why, even though aTV sales are not where Apple would like, it still is the number one box of its type.

 

[jaw04005]

If I'm paying $4.99 for a movie rental, I want BluRay quality. At .99, 720P is okay....

You’ll be waiting for years then. No streaming service comes close to Blu-ray quality (25 Mbps+ bit rate) even at 1080p. Why do you think Blu-ray’s hold 25-50GB of video?



I think Apple should offer a 1080p rental at a 1 Mbps bit rate just to shut you 1080p snobs up.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Why would you? why have two devices up and running to watch it on your TV? my advice for anyone who doesn't have ATV buy one now before the new one hits the stores my guess current ATV's will be like rocking horse s*@t

If you read the context of the post, you would know that the person I was replying to was lamenting that you could no longer do that. I already have a 40GB tv that I only use to rent movies on. I will not be "upgrading" unless someone wants to buy this one from me for more than $99.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I really don't know anyone who streams 1080p to their TV, but I know plenty of people who rent and buy iTunes movies/tv shows.

Do you work for Apple? Maybe you don't know anyone who streams 1080p to their TV because they don't have the hardware to do so? It sounds like you know a number of iTunes/Apple-centric people. Even if you knew ALL of them, it's still not a big group compared to all people in the world. And even the bulk of them (the iDevice owners) couldn't stream 1080p from what they own if they wanted to do so.

I'd be streaming 1080p home movies rendered by iMovie, playable in Quicktime, storable in iTunes and beautiful on my HDTV the first DAY that the new TV came out... IF it could make the connection between iTunes and the HDTV.

Secondly, how many of those people you know can rent & buy iTunes 1080p content? None, because there isn't any such content available in iTunes for them to rent or buy. If they had the choice of 1080p vs. 720p for- say- the same price, which would they choose? If they had the choice of 1080p vs. 720p for a bit higher price, which would they choose? But they have no choice, so what's it matter?

Apple is fighting a battle for a place in the home video hardware shelf. They fight against BD which has a big claim of 1080p "true HD" and much better sound formats. They fight against little boxes with a BD player in them like WD, priced about the same, but with 1080p playback. Etc.

This new one could have crushed this nagging shortcoming at absolutely no expense to ANYONE. Those happy with 720p would still be able to watch 720p at it's fullest. Those "1080p or bust" people would also have something to buy immediately. Those with or without the bandwidth for 1080p files could choose other quality levels to download to fit their own situations. Those with or without the storage for a 1080p collection, could still enjoy their DVD collections, or 720p collections, etc.

And Apple would win by selling a more of this product to both camps, rather than delivering the same MAX capacity as a box built in 2006.

Then here you are- over and over- trying to justify why 720p makes sense. If it makes sense for you and your friends, great! Had this come out with 1080p, you and yours could have still enjoyed your 720p to the MAX. But those of us that would have liked 1080p hardware to link with our 1080HDTVs could have also got what we wanted. It wouldn't have cost you anymore for us to get what we wanted too. It wouldn't have robbed you of your "720p is good enough" scenario. It wouldn't have affected you in the least.

But it doesn't work the other way. And that's too bad. I love my circa 2006 TVs. It's great that the new ones brings a better brain and netflix, but it sure would have been nice to get a very natural bump in graphics hardware to go with that A4. My money was ready. Now it stays in my pocket.

But hey- in four more years, maybe Apple will finally roll out 1080p TVs... in a case about half the size of this one

 

[GermanSuplex]

It doesn't make sense for Apple to sell a 1080p device when they don't sell/rent any 1080p content and items like iPhone don't record 1080p content.

I'm not saying 1080p is useless or that nobody wants it... far from it. I said I can understand that point a long time ago. But you're right I AM justifying 720p (which is not the same as discrediting 1080p) because I think that it's good enough for most people, and Apple is clearly trying to make this thing as cheap as possible and push it into homes. Yes, it is an "iTunes rental box", even though I think its more than that... the goal is clearly to sell iTunes content, and they will sell plenty of it.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It doesn't make sense for Apple to sell a 1080p device when they don't sell/rent any 1080p content and items like iPhone don't record 1080p content.

Exactly backwards. It makes 100% sense for Apple to roll out better hardware and then have the "software" follow it. If all the Studios put ALL of their content in the iTunes store today in 1080p quality for TV, how much of that would sell? None, because there's not TV in place that can play it.

If a Studio wants to test the profitability of adding 1080p content for TV by putting a movie or show in there today, how will that test fare? It will flop, because there's no TV hardware in place to play it.

The hardware must LEAD. Entrench the hardware and with each unit sold, some Studio gets increasingly tempted to see if they can make more money by selling/renting a movie via iTunes vs. putting it on a disk and giving Walmart, Best Buy, etc a cut. If they find it profitable, they'll put more 1080i/p content in the iTunes store.

However, BEFORE there's any TV units in homes that can play 1080i/p content, it IMPOSSIBLE for the Studios to sell 1080i/p content for TV.

Look at all of Apple's other stuff. I just bought the latest & greatest iMac i7 Quad. I haven't yet found a way to max it out. I would guess that most people don't max their's out either. So should Apple stop advancing Macs until the software is in place to max them out? Should Apple stop advancing iPhones until the software is in place to max them out? Why is this ONE thing from Apple seen so differently?

Build 1080p in, and it serves every interested customer whatever they want- the best 720p playback or 1080p playback. More people will buy because they get what they want. More units installed becomes temptation for those with 1080p content to rent or sell to us. It's only a matter of time until they pitch testing 1080p content in the iTunes store to Apple. As is though, even if they want to sell us 1080p TV content, they can't, because it can't be played even if they put it in the store tonight.

 

[diamond3]

Am I the only one that thinks that a 30-pin dock connector to HDMI would have been 1000x more useful? You would think that with the iPod Touch and iPhone having support for 720p that they could have created a dock with HDMI instead of the VGA adapter that would have done the same thing and more. Netflix, pandora, and any other app that supports video out. This is what I was hoping for but left disappointed since i'm not in the market for an iPod. The only thing I can think of is surround sound. But I think it would be a killer product in addition to the tv

 

[GermanSuplex]

Exactly backwards. It makes 100% sense for Apple to roll out better hardware and then have the "software" follow it. If all the Studios put ALL of their content in the iTunes store today in 1080p quality for TV, how much of that would sell? None, because there's not TV in place that can play it.

If a Studio wants to test the profitability of adding 1080p content for TV by putting a movie or show in there today, how will that test fare? It will flop, because there's no TV hardware in place to play it.

The hardware must LEAD. Entrench the hardware and with each unit sold, some Studio gets increasingly tempted to see if they can make more money by selling/renting a movie via iTunes vs. putting it on a disk and giving Walmart, Best Buy, etc a cut. If they find it profitable, they'll put more 1080i/p content in the iTunes store.

However, BEFORE there's any TV units in homes that can play 1080i/p content, it IMPOSSIBLE for the Studios to sell 1080i/p content for TV.

Look at all of Apple's other stuff. I just bought the latest & greatest iMac i7 Quad. I haven't yet found a way to max it out. I would guess that most people don't max their's out either. So should Apple stop advancing Macs until the software is in place to max them out? Should Apple stop advancing iPhones until the software is in place to max them out? Why is this ONE thing from Apple seen so differently?

Build 1080p in, and it serves every interested customer whatever they want- the best 720p playback or 1080p playback. More people will buy because they get what they want. More units installed becomes temptation for those with 1080p content to rent or sell to us. It's only a matter of time until they pitch testing 1080p content in the iTunes store to Apple. As is though, even if they want to sell us 1080p TV content, they can't, because it can't be played even if they put it in the store tonight.

If they put in 1080p capabilities without 1080p content on the store, then you'd have constant complaints about there being no 1080p content. And if they did have 1080p content, you'd have issues since all the movies are over 4GB and you'd have issues with people using Fat32 formatted drives, problems much bigger than people simply wanting 1080p content.

Personal opinion - there is a sector of the market for 1080p downloaded content, but I don't think it's big enough for the mass market that Apple is doing so well in right now.

 

[Duffinator]

Personal opinion - there is a sector of the market for 1080p downloaded content, but I don't think it's big enough for the mass market that Apple is doing so well in right now.

Tell that to all the Apple customers that own or are going to buy a new 1080P TV.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

If they put in 1080p capabilities without 1080p content on the store, then you'd have constant complaints about there being no 1080p content.

My iMac has 4 cores. I'm not constantly complaining about nothing being available that seems to max them out.

From the beginning the current TV had 720p hardware, but there wasn't constant complaints about no 720p content in the iTunes store.

iPods have had the ability to play lossless audio for many years. Is there constant complaints about not having lossless audio in the iTunes store.

Today, Jobs rolled out 99 cent programs, packaging it as some sources that are playing ball and others who are not. He could just as easily rolled out 1080p hardware and mentioned 1080 camcorder home movies look great, several podcast videos are available in 1080p, youtube 1080p is available etc. "We are ready to offer 1080i/p content as soon as any studio wants to add it to the iTunes store. In the meantime, all of our movies and TV shows are now 720p..."

That would have shifted the complaints to the Studios, because Apple would have covered the part they have control over.

And my money would already be spent. And I'd be gushing positives about "finally...", etc.

And if they did have 1080p content, you'd have issues since all the movies are over 4GB and you'd have issues with people using Fat32 formatted drives, problems much bigger than people simply wanting 1080p content.

You seem to perceive that a hardware announcement today would have forced everyone to start dealing with the "problems" associated with 1080p file sizes. Those with limited storage could download 720p or smaller files. Those with limited bandwidth could download 720p or smaller files. Etc.

A simple message on screen could educate the buyer/renter that the 1080p version are very large files and will take a long time to download on slower broadband connections. Those that want to anyway could still get what they want. That would be much preferable to Apple deciding for us.

A 1080p chip set wouldn't have to affect anyone who doesn't want to deal with the negatives of file sizes, download speed, thinner broadband pipes, etc. The whole iTunes world could keep choosing 720p or SD video... and it would play to the max on hardware capable of better than those standards.

But it doesn't work the other way.