Official "Waiting for Santa Rosa" thread.

[Episteme]

I doubt you will see a redesign soon. They seem pretty content with the current design of the pro machines. The only thing I would like to see changed aesthetically is getting rid of the latch and going to a dimple like the MB but because the case is metal I think it would be too much trouble to try and get it to look good.

I dunno, I think it's about due. I'd expect it to remain Aluminum. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'd like to see the MBP be able to swap the HD out as easily as the current MB range can -- seems to odd that the consumer notebook gets that when the pro doesn't...

The other thing that springs to mind is IF they do go to LED backlit displays, the lid could be a lot thinner, and thus the body could be thicker while still keeping to that fabled 'just 1" thick'. That in turn would allow a better GPU, a bigger battery, a standard height (and cheaper and faster) DVDRW drive, etc. -- of course, it could look pretty much the same and just have relatively minor proportional differences too.

One reason we've not seen much in terms of case redesign is Apple presumably chose to keep existing cases for the most part as they moved the guts over to x86, presumably to ensure people still thought of the new hardware as "A Mac".

I figure we'll start to see new "different" designs on at least some systems by the end of 2007... tho it could be the iMac that changes first, not the MBP.

 

[toke lahti]

Beyond that, given few people have more than 2GB on systems that take more, I don't see that as an issue.

I've used several years desktops with more than 2GB and that's very useful with graphic and video apps.

Do I run 64bit code? Which system? 🙂

I meant apps that use 64bit in Os X?

Didn't that MBP revision also add FW800?

To 15" yes, but 17" had it already and so did 15" pb for years...

The 45% gamut stuff is for that particular panel, not an inherent limitation on LED. You can get more accurate color representation with LED than with CCFL, with quite a number of existing (and on sale right now) displays being specced at 110% NTSC. I've seen a Philips panels somewhere that was ~135% NTSC.

Those wide gamut led displays use rgb leds and they need too much space for laptops. White leds seem to have much less gamut.
And I think that comparing to ntsc gamut which was specced in 1930's is so outdated. These days comparison should be done against itu709 or adobeRGB or at least sRGB.

Remember tho', laptop displays are always a compromise between quality, weight and cost. C'est la vie.

Main problem is that the highest end portable from Apple (and the only one that can run FCS), that costs quite much, uses cheap panel. If there aren't any better for laptops, that's just very surprising for me. I've used to do all color critical work with desktop monitors and it seems to be that I'll have to keep doing them that way in the future also. It's just sad that laptop displays are not getting any better very soon...
Desktop lcd's are getting rid of 8bit bottleneck with new connection standards and LUTs, but laptop lcd's still suffer from 6bits and narrow gamuts.

 

[Pressure]

Different people have different perception of "No problems".

No, it means what it should mean. No problems, as in zero issues.

You have hardly seen a thousand people complain about their MacBook Pro here, let alone hundreds.

 

[Episteme]

I've used several years desktops with more than 2GB and that's very useful with graphic and video apps.

I've worked with systems with 64GB in the past. Doesn't mean the majority are tho', and that's who Apple's aiming at.

Beyond that, it's more or less in line with what others offer. Apple's just offering you what Intel offers.

Still, SSE is also damn' useful for graphic and video, and the C2D gave that a boost 🙂

I meant apps that use 64bit in Os X?

Obviously not on a laptop. FreeBSD tho...

To 15" yes, but 17" had it already and so did 15" pb for years...

So, it changed -- the very definition of a revision 😉

Those wide gamut led displays use rgb leds and they need too much space for laptops. White leds seem to have much less gamut.
And I think that comparing to ntsc gamut which was specced in 1930's is so outdated. These days comparison should be done against itu709 or adobeRGB or at least sRGB.

True, at least for now. Best I've seen in an LED backlit Laptop is 72%, but progress marches on.

Gamut specs listed in % of ye olde NTSC is how it's done, regardless of "shoulds".

Tho' I believe that NTSC color's a 50's spec? I know it was bolted on after the original monochrome spec. Not that it matters -- it's not like the spec will complain 😉

Main problem is that the highest end portable from Apple (and the only one that can run FCS), that costs quite much, uses cheap panel. If there aren't any better for laptops, that's just very surprising for me. I've used to do all color critical work with desktop monitors and it seems to be that I'll have to keep doing them that way in the future also. It's just sad that laptop displays are not getting any better very soon...
Desktop lcd's are getting rid of 8bit bottleneck with new connection standards and LUTs, but laptop lcd's still suffer from 6bits and narrow gamuts.

The problem Apple has is they can only use what's on the market. I doubt they can afford the R&D for a better panel, and even if they could, I doubt they sell enough to people who care.

I'm guessing the vast majority would prefer all the advantages of LED backlit panels with a 72% gamut vs CCFL at 95% -- and what sells is what brings prices down. Of the laptop market I'd guess what affects Word, IE and Outlook is what matters the most...

Beyond that, you're over a barrel if you want to run FCP.

Of course, laptops are the very definition of compromise -- compared to desktops, they have crummy keyboards, small displays, slow disks, yada yada.

It's not that long ago that laptops were mono, after all... or maybe I'm just getting old 🙂

 

[toke lahti]

I've worked with systems with 64GB in the past. Doesn't mean the majority are tho', and that's who Apple's aiming at.

I'm still claiming that mb is aimed for majority and mbp is for "creative pros", which are small minority. The average revenue for Apple per one laptop is $1520 and with that figure we can speculate the proportions between mb and mbp.

I'm guessing the vast majority would prefer all the advantages of LED backlit panels with a 72% gamut vs CCFL at 95% -- and what sells is what brings prices down. Of the laptop market I'd guess what affects Word, IE and Outlook is what matters the most...

Why would people who use only Word, IE(!) and Outlook buy mbp?
They want costeffective laptop and mb is enough for them.
So majority of laptop users would prefer LED, but I think majority of mbp users would prefer 95% gamut.

Beyond that, you're over a barrel if you want to run FCP.

It's not fcp that is the most demanding app in fcs, it's Motion and especially Color.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/specs.html

 

[Episteme]

I'm still claiming that mb is aimed for majority and mbp is for "creative pros", which are small minority. The average revenue for Apple per one laptop is $1520 and with that figure we can speculate the proprtions between mb and mbp.

Well, if you want a 15" laptop - and many people I know do - that's your only option if you want a Mac. That gains a lot from people who would otherwise go MB and loses a lot to people like my friend who has a 15" Toshiba that cost a lot less.

It's a better argument for the 17" tho. Don't see many of those around tho'.

Why would people who use only Word, IE(!) and Outlook buy mbp?
They want costeffective laptop and mb is enough for them.
So majority of laptop users would prefer LED, but I think majority of mbp users would prefer 95% gamut.

Maybe it's just the art guys I know, but most of them won't touch a laptop display even with 95% gamut...

Given the current panels are 18bit, I would have thought even 95% gamut blew dead goats if what you want entails even remotely accurate color.

Having said that, you're assuming no new LED-based panel can get close to 95%.

We don't even know IF they are using an LED panel anytime soon, so you're arguing a product that may not exist, of which you do not know the specs, isn't good enough for your purposes...

Beyond that, all my friend does is drive back and forth to work, pretty much -- why does he drive a 5-series BMW? 🙂

It's not fcp that is the most demanding app in fcs, it's Motion and especially Color.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/specs.html

Bit of a non-sequitur to what I'd said...

My point was that if you want FCP (or Motion, or Color, or...), you can't go anywhere else. Apple has you over a barrel.

 

[Mistershark]

I am waiting for the Santa Rosa upgrade for the MacBook. Originally, I was hoping to get one as soon as Leopard came out, but, because of the delay, I am only waiting for Santa Rosa.

The MacBook will be my first Mac, and definitely not my last. (Insert PC rant here)

 

[kellah]

I bought a ADC Student membership a few weeks ago so I'll be ready to buy my MBP when Santa Rosa is released. I am hoping Santa Rosa MBP's will ship no later than WWDC!! I definitely can't wait until October if they were to release them with Leopard.

 

[iW00t]

No, it means what it should mean. No problems, as in zero issues.

You have hardly seen a thousand people complain about their MacBook Pro here, let alone hundreds.

Whatever.

I've seen friends carry around that sealed airtight case of a Rev-A MBP about, and between THAT and a severely underclocked GPU, vs the sleek streamlined heat vent and higher performing GPU on a Rev-B, guess which one I'd prefer?

Just because you are not aware of a problem doesn't mean there is no problem. You paid for a X1600 Pro that performs at an ass. THAT in itself is a problem.

 

[toke lahti]

Well, if you want a 15" laptop - and many people I know do - that's your only option if you want a Mac. That gains a lot from people who would otherwise go MB and loses a lot to people like my friend who has a 15" Toshiba that cost a lot less.
It's a better argument for the 17" tho. Don't see many of those around tho'.

Oh yes, you are right about 15".
That's Apple's biggest problem right now: too few models.
Their strategy to maximize profits with few huge series instead of several smaller series is short sighted.
They should have at least small and big model for basic users and same for pros. People are crying for 12" mbp and 15" mb and thus buying nothing.

Well, I solved my problem by auctioning new mp from ebay for £1200+post,
let's see if I'm beeing screwed.
Anyway, I have now all the time in the world to wait for SR+Leopard+fullHD+eSata+BRD (hmm, 5 new things, 1 per update = about 2.5 years...) mbp, if my back will handle the sitting (Ankylosing Spondylitis)...

 

[MAW]

If this has already been asked, my apologies....


I planned on getting either a 24" imac or mbp in November, which theoretically puts me past Leopard's supposed release date of October, and well past the speculated hardware upgrade in summer(?)

Would it be wise however to wait until, say Q1 or Q2 of '08 as a newer upgrade(hardware or chipset) might be due?

 

[maxp1]

Unless the SR update is really underwhelming (like chipset only) I wouldn't wait any longer. The SR update should introduce a host of new features that won't be changed for a year or more. After that, Penryn will be an incremental processor upgrade, but the really interesting processor stuff is going to happen in the step after that, about a year from now (or more).

 

[MaddieBrad]

How likely are we to see a change to the MBP design? I read somewhere that people were expecting to see the same keyboards as on the MB. I sure as hell hope not. But what do you guys think?.... Will we see some sort of change to the shell of the MBP? What about the ports? Will we see Firewire 800 etc etc?

b

 

[Martin C]

Will we see Firewire 800 etc etc?

The MBP already has Firewire 800.

 

[xice]

so the new MBP should be WWDC yes?
Obviously apple are apple, but what is everyones thoughts.
We need a poll eh guys

 

[Poopface Morty]

I'm still waiting to get an updated MBP. I have a 17" Toshiba Satellite at home that's about three years old, and is beginning to show it's age unfortunately. I really hope they get the updated MBP's out by summer, as I don't absolutely need one now, but I will need one soon, as I plan on getting Adobe CS3 for Mac as well.

 

[SHowHawk]

I posted this on another thread, but thought I would post it here as well. Would love to hear comments and criticisms, etc. on my sideways rationales.

My two cents worth on when we might see new MBs and MBPs:

I'm new to this forum... and will be to Macs (as an owner, not so much a user) once I get a new MacBook or MacBook Pro in the next month or so.

So I have been following developments on the rumor sites and forums closely. And I have seen a lot of folks predicting new MB Pros at WWDC and then MBs a few weeks or month later. Other than what seems to be the usual pattern of updating the Pro line first (at least since the MB Pro came out in Jan. 06), I was wondering why most seem to think the new Pros will precede the consumer MBs?

I actually think that the MacBooks might see an update in mid-to-late May, before updated MacBook Pros are announced at WWDC in June.

And here is my humble reasoning (or wishful thinking, as the case may be):

1) Intel's Santa Rosa is supposed to hit the streets in May, and leaks are already coming in on Santa Rosa -based offerings from HP, Sony, Lenovo, etc. So I expect that Apple will want to be up-to-date on processor/chipsets in its own notebooks and remain as competitive and "cutting-edge" as possible.

2) The MacBook, rather than the MacBook Pro, would seem to get more immediate benefit from Santa Rosa, particularly in the new Intel GM965 (X3100) integrated graphics chipset. The MB Pro uses discrete graphics (the AMD/ATI Radeon X1600), and so would likely see smaller benefit from Santa Rosa... until Leopard hits that is. To my view, that would seem to indicate that the MacBook might get a basic Santa Rosa refresh just a bit quicker.

3) Leopard. Leopard and the rollout of the iPhone are likely to be the big focus of WWDC (probably to the exclusion of much else... I don't expect any iPods, do you?). So hardware like the MB Pro, that might make better use of some of the fancier features of Leopard and Santa Rosa (like the FLASH-enabled drives and such), might better be unveiled with the announcement of such features for Leopard. And generally Steve Jobs seems to like to focus his keynotes on cool new features of hardware as opposed to just simpler speed/capacity bumps.

4) Crowding of releases. Apple hasn't updated either notebook line since the fall. Nary a speed bump or or other upgrade since then. And these are now their bread-and-butter Macs, selling more than the "desktop" Macs. Getting a MacBook out at the beginning of the Summer rather than in the midst of the iPhone rollout, might be a better move supply-wise in order to position themselves for the back-to-school season.

You never really know with Apple, they could do just about anything. But I for one am really hoping for and even expecting some sort of Mac hardware release announcement before WWDC to at least space all their expected product releases out a bit. That, and I would really like a MacBook with GMA965 in it rather than the current anemic MacBook graphics. I need something that can handle Civ IV well. 😉

 

[Shackler]

if this has been answered or is a 'dumb question', my bad.

will SR have Robson cache?

because all the SR laptops coming out that i have seen havent mentioned Robson cache so what the deal?

 

[kellah]

3) Leopard. Leopard and the rollout of the iPhone are likely to be the big focus of WWDC (probably to the exclusion of much else... I don't expect any iPods, do you?). So hardware like the MB Pro, that might make better use of some of the fancier features of Leopard and Santa Rosa (like the FLASH-enabled drives and such), might better be unveiled with the announcement of such features for Leopard. And generally Steve Jobs seems to like to focus his keynotes on cool new features of hardware as opposed to just simpler speed/capacity bumps.

Apple announced they would not be releasing Leopard at WWDC and more likely in the Fall.

 

[Mistershark]

Apple announced they would not be releasing Leopard at WWDC and more likely in the Fall.

They are going to release a beta version to engineers and go over some more new features.
It's another sneak peek.

 

[rectangular]

I really doubt that they would update the consumer line before the pro line. Especially for that long of time, nobody would buy the pro line. Plus, if they updated the Pro before the consumer line, it might convince people to shell out the extra money for the pro line.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I really doubt that they would update the consumer line before the pro line. Especially for that long of time, nobody would buy the pro line. Plus, if they updated the Pro before the consumer line, it might convince people to shell out the extra money for the pro line.

That's really silly. I completely agree with the guy above that the MB is more likely to be upgraded before the MBP.

The MB is the best selling Mac, and Apple will want to have it up-to-date for the education buying season who are probably their biggest market for MBs.

Also the MBP will see little to no benefit with SR, whereas the MB will see a big difference in it's integrated graphics. Apple will probably wait until there are new, better DX10 GPUs to put in the MBP and that may not be a while.

I just refuse to believe that Apple will purposely hold back on updating the MB when it makes no sense to do so. Why would a SR MacBook eat into sales of MBP's? It will still have a crippled GPU in comparison, just slightly less gimped.

 

[kellah]

I would really think that Pro users would benefit more from a fully 64-bit system. There are arguments to go either way. We shall see what Apple does.

 

[Tadros]

Apple usually updates the MBP before the MB, the MB being updated a few weeks to about a month or two after the MBP. Hence why everyone believes the MBP will be the first to see any updates. Especially being that the MBP is now over due for an update more then the MB.


What do you guys think about the LED situation? Will we be seeing any in the MBPs at WWDC?

 

[kajitox]

Is there any reason for them not to update both at the same time? Updating the MBs first might make people buy more of them and increase their popularity, but it would also detract from the people who wanted to spend a grand more to buy MBPs, and as much as many people don't want to admit, it is about money here...what would Apple do to get the best out of sales?

I bet that would be to update the MBPs and MBs with a somewhat big announcement (which is seemingly different than usual; I get the impression they quietly release a lot of the updates) to compete with other popular brands like HP and Dell because the back to school market is going to kick into high gear between June-August. Some people have said that they will wait until late July, August or even wait until Leopard is released, but I think that's pretty ridiculous since many colleges start in August. IMO, that would be a stupid mistake to make, especially with so many first year college students who are open to buying a Mac. What better time is there to get somebody hooked on your product?

I am waiting to buy my first Mac computer and I don't think the wait will be any longer than WWDC, it just wouldn't make sense for Apple to pass up the temptation for people to buy brand new Macs for graduation presents, college students, etc.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've been silently watching these forums, the rumor sites, the buying guides, blah blah blah and after reading so many opinions, it sounds like the updates are coming in 4-6 weeks.