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Fukui said:
I bet you anything apple got dropped a hint early that IE development was stopping, and developed safari in advance; they were lucky. Otherwise we would all be using either buggy IE or ugly Mozilla. Remember IE has ceased development for Windows and Mac TOGETHER, this was done to maximize features in Longhorn, and longhorn only. This decision was made a long time ago.


Umm there have been IE updates since they drop support for Apple IE. Windows is also getting a new verson of IE in the next few months and some more IE stuff is coming with SP2.

Also you need to remeber that PC maker make like 10-15 bukcs off the computers they sell compared to apple making 100+ per computer so having a very small market share hurts the PC a lot more
 
7on said:
Games have never been a high concern with Apple. Dunno why, they're just not.

OpenGL I was introduced by Steve Jobs several years ago as a standard for the Mac (for OS X) to encourage more games development. It was back in a keynote around 2000 or 1999. I wish I can see that keynote again so that I can quote exactly what he said.
 
Did you even look at the whole chart? The last column is growth - they're all doing pretty damn well. Besides, this is just in computers - IBM does a whole lot more than just sell computers..... :rolleyes:

D
 
Mr. Anderson said:
Did you even look at the whole chart? The last column is growth - they're all doing pretty damn well. Besides, this is just in computers - IBM does a whole lot more than just sell computers..... :rolleyes:

D

that's right - which also supports my point.

and Apple also does a lot more than just personal computers - another reason not to be concerned about their future.
 
IBM really isn't in the consumer desktop business anymore. They sell PCs, but they are more geared to business then they are home use. IBMs real bread and butter are their server/workstation and manufactuering businesses.
 
Actually selling consulting and middleware is now IBM's core business. Hardware sales only account for a measly few billion dollars. There have been some signals that indicate that they might wish to expand the hardware side a bit more in the future.
 
wrldwzrd89 said:
Why did IDC limit the servers included under the PC category to x86? Why isn't Apple's Xserve included?
At this point it hardly matters. This past quarter Apple sold 13000 of them, and that was a record. Regardless, they are really competing more in the Unix server space than with PC servers (which still usually run Windows).
 
Solafaa said:
Thats just silly. You dont need more then %3 of any market share. Apple dose not sped as much on costs, so all the income they get is not all spent.

To get developers you sure as heck do. Lets see if I'm creating a peice of software and have to developed it for the PC or the Mac which platform is more likely to generate more sales? 3% market share or 95%? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Beyond that software DOES matter. I do NOT care what anyone says there is something psychotically soothing about having row upon row of software titles to choose from. It not only gives you choice it also is reassuring that the platform you chose is thriving. Now step into an Apple store and see the 3 racks of software titles. Sorry. That WOULD be disconcerting to the average user and never mind the fact that Apple pads the shelves with books and duplicate titles to make the shelves look fuller then they really are.
 
yamabushi said:
Actually selling consulting and middleware is now IBM's core business. Hardware sales only account for a measly few billion dollars. There have been some signals that indicate that they might wish to expand the hardware side a bit more in the future.

IBM isn't going to be doing anything to their hardware for a while. Their hardware mobile platform is doing pretty dang well as far as I can tell. Our entire company nation wide just migrated to IBM laptops last fall. Multiple fortune 500 companies I've been to all are running IBM hardware. Their server platform alone is a pretty big money maker.

And to be honest IBM out innovates the crap out of Apple at least when it comes to hardware innovation.
 
bousozoku said:
IBM really doesn't make much money in the PC business at all. Their money is mostly made in services and big machines--those supporting thousands of users. Their margins in those areas are pretty good.

Right on. I did work experience at IBM and that's where all of the energy goes - servicing IBM servers and frames and Dell workstations :rolleyes:
 
ChrisH3677 said:
that's right - which also supports my point.

and Apple also does a lot more than just personal computers - another reason not to be concerned about their future.


Dude the only thing Apple does other then the computer is the iPod. (Do you really think they are making a killing on X Servers?!?) If they didn't have the iPod Apple as a company would be very... :(

And I wouldn't put too much faith in just the iPod. Yes it's doing fantastically well right now. Apple and co should be patting themselves on the back. However companies that rely on a single product to keep them going make investors nervous. And rightly so. This year is the first year Apple has had any real competition in the digital music player (DMP) arena. So far they have stayed ahead of the pack by making relatively smart decisions. But I really question long term if this is going to work out in Apple's favor. Unless Apple is willing to take a major hit in profits, something they have never done in the past, to make a sale they very well could become marginalized as cheaper DMP enter the market. Keep in mind that one of the reasons the PC is kicking the Mac's *** is because you can get a computer for aprox half a grand. People are willing to live with that kind of quality. If this attitude transfers over to the DMP market Apple is screwed if they don't follow the trend of cheaper devices. Also keep in mind that in the DMP market they still don't even own 50%. Its something like 30-35%. Yes they are the largest single portion DMP market but when it comes to market share the are still behind the rest.
And YES that number IS important. Apple is not only battling for first place in the DMP market but also digital audio codec market. By not owning at least 50% of the market they risk having AAC being relegated to 3rd place for format after WMA and MP3. WMA still has a strong lead right now. They aren't an industry standard like AAC is but they don't have to be. Nab enough market share and they will become the pseudo standard by default.
If Apple is going to continue to thrive they need to get beyond the DMP and the PC. I seriously hope we start seeing other apple products come out on the market that can leverage their ability create innovative "designs" that just work. Cell phone anyone? Cordless VoIP phone for the home that runs through your computer? Apple DVR? There is a world of consumer electronics that Apple could make a massive killing on. I hope to see this happen sooner rather then later.
 
SiliconAddict said:
Dude the only thing Apple does other then the computer is the iPod. (Do you really think they are making a killing on X Servers?!?) If they didn't have the iPod Apple as a company would be very... :(

um.... so Apple do servers and DMPs too? Sounds to me like they are trying not to limit themselves to one market segment. And you forgot to mention software. It doesn't matter how small their server market is - a few years ago it didn't exist at all remember.

And I wouldn't put too much faith in just the iPod. Yes it's doing fantastically well right now. Apple and co should be patting themselves on the back. However companies that rely on a single product to keep them going make investors nervous. And rightly so. This year is the first year Apple has had any real competition in the digital music player (DMP) arena. So far they have stayed ahead of the pack by making relatively smart decisions. But I really question long term if this is going to work out in Apple's favor. Unless Apple is willing to take a major hit in profits, something they have never done in the past, to make a sale they very well could become marginalized as cheaper DMP enter the market. Keep in mind that one of the reasons the PC is kicking the Mac's *** is because you can get a computer for aprox half a grand. People are willing to live with that kind of quality. If this attitude transfers over to the DMP market Apple is screwed if they don't follow the trend of cheaper devices. Also keep in mind that in the DMP market they still don't even own 50%. Its something like 30-35%. Yes they are the largest single portion DMP market but when it comes to market share the are still behind the rest.

ok...on that logic Michael Dell must be an insominiac. Poor guy - he's *only* got 32% of the WinTel PC market.


And YES that number IS important. Apple is not only battling for first place in the DMP market but also digital audio codec market. By not owning at least 50% of the market they risk having AAC being relegated to 3rd place for format after WMA and MP3. WMA still has a strong lead right now. They aren't an industry standard like AAC is but they don't have to be. Nab enough market share and they will become the pseudo standard by default.

Fair enough but really - if AAC genuinely looks like losing, I think Steve will be mature enough this time to know to get compatible. If you doubt that check how much Windows compatible stuff they've got now: OSX, iPod, iTunes, iTMS, Filemaker etc. Plus they've dropped some of their proprietary standards (eg ADC)

Personally, I think Sony is the one with the most power to dictate the music format - since they are music producers, music sellers and DMP manufacturers.

If Apple is going to continue to thrive they need to get beyond the DMP and the PC. I seriously hope we start seeing other apple products come out on the market that can leverage their ability create innovative "designs" that just work. Cell phone anyone? Cordless VoIP phone for the home that runs through your computer? Apple DVR? There is a world of consumer electronics that Apple could make a massive killing on. I hope to see this happen sooner rather then later.

So? You expect this to happen overnight? It's a slow process. You criticized Apple's server market, yet at least they're expanding their product base. You criticize their iPod market share, yet at least they're in there.

So if (and probably when) they get into the things you suggest, are you going to bag them again because they won't capture enough market to keep you happy?

Apple are doing what you want - trying to get into different markets so they aren't dependent on any one product for their success. Yet you still bag them for it! :confused: :mad:
 
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