One 30" ACD or two 23"?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by Fast Shadow, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. Fast Shadow macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    I'm getting ready to buy a mac pro that I'll be using with FCS and Photoshop. I'm a longtime photographer but my interest in learning the elements of filmmaking has grown quite a bit over the years. I've been saving up to invest in a workstation for a while, and I'm finally ready to move ahead. I've already bought FCS2 and an ATI 3870 video card. Next up I'm going to order the MP and a display. My question is - how much of an advantage is there in two displays when using FCS? If I go with a single 30" ACD instead of dual 23s, will I regret it? For the purpose of editing photos, a single 30" has a lot of appeal for me. I generally don't care much about having palettes sitting over part of the image, but that's photography and not editing film.

    Ideally dual 30" displays would rule, but that's simply not in my budget. So it's either dual 23" or a single 30. I'm leaning toward the single 30", because if the RED Scarlet turns out to be worthwhile then I'll be good to go for editing 2K if I have a 30" ACD. But if I'm seriously going to regret using a single display then I'll do the dual 23s...
     
  2. ChemiosMurphy macrumors 6502

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    Sep 25, 2007
    Location:
    Warminster, PA
    #2
    Neither.

    Get 2 cheap LCD's, 23 inchers, and spend your money on a NICE REFERENCE MONITOR. The monitors for FCP DON'T matter since your seeing an RGB signal, when in fact you need YUV. This really really really is important for color correction.

    I have a Dell 2408 on my Matrox MXO and I love it. It was cheap too, around $600. So I'd say get two of those. The color on it is fabulous, and it has a ton of inputs

    -dual DVI
    -VGA
    -Composite video
    -Component video
    -S video
    -HDMI
    -Display Port

    Yeah. Dell monitors are much better than Apple's in terms of price. Did I mention HDCP support?

    Dual monitors for FCP makes all the difference. I refuse to cut on a laptop because I can't have all my stuff up. Once you go to two, you'll never go back.

    But yeah, moral of the story, spend more money on a reference monitor. I got my Dell/MXO package for $1600 bucks and just use crappy dual Acer 22's for OSX.
     
  3. Fast Shadow thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    I would get an MXO if I were going to do video for the purpose of broadcast, but as far as I can see everything I do will be intended for playback on computers. Edited on a calibrated RGB display and distributed through Viddler or direct download. I don't see where an MXO would benefit me in this scenario, but I may be missing something being that this is new to me. Also, I thought I had read about the MXO having issues with the latest rev Mac Pros.

    I actually have a Dell 2408WFP at work. It's not used for creative purposes, so I haven't really spent any time tweaking it. Out of the box I didn't like it very much, it seemed like it had a strong blue push.
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #4
    Even though for video work computer monitors aren't color or image accurate (unless you are using the Matrox MXO w/a qualified setup) you don't want to totally cheap out on them because, well, you are going to be looking at them for long periods of time and you only have one set of eyes. Also, if you are going to be doing image editing the Apple ACD's are SWOP certified. Personally I prefer having 2 monitors vs 1 big monitor. I have a 23" ACD and a 24" Dell (Ultrasharp WFP2408). I got the 23" primarily because it works best w/the Matrox MXO and the Dell I got because of the inputs (I don't need great quality from the inputs just enough for a 'confidence view'), the ability to rotate it, and the price. I also have a 17" CRT b'cast monitor that I use to monitor SD signals.

    Overall I'm content w/my 2408 but you do get what you pay for. The 2408's ship tinted very red, most of them have uneven lighting (my monitor is brighter on the left side than the right), and the analog video inputs (composite, component, s-video) are very poor according to the reviews I've read. W/that being said that, it's probably the most well rounded at it's price point.


    Lethal
     
  5. NRose8989 macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 6, 2008
    #5
    Sorry to hijack your thread but I'm still a bit confused.....

    is the MXO really important if your only doing video for the web or for viewing on a HDTV via apple tv or iDVD?

    I'm not a pro by all means or in industry but i would like to produce color correct video. how does the MXO change the way a monitor looks with or without one?

    would someone like myself benefit from using a MXO?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  6. Fast Shadow thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    If you're doing video for display on televisions then something like an MXO is very important. If you're doing video for the web - I don't know, that's what I'm also curious about.
     
  7. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #7
    it is still important...

    have you ever seen a thread on a video forum about "why does my video look washed out after i export to h.264"? let me tell you, there are hundreds (here, dvxuser.com, creativecow, all of 'em).

    This happens because people are color "correcting" in reference to the FCP Canvas or the Viewer in Color. After exporting, the videos look way off. If you grade on a broadcast monitor then you're exports will look like they do on the broadcast monitor.
     
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #8
    Personally I'd like to use a properly calibrated reference monitor and scopes no matter what the final destination of the project is so that at least I know it looks 'right.' But for web only work where there are no standards at all for video (unlike gfx & photography that utilize color profiles) so it's a tougher call to make. You can make the video look good on the reference monitor, but that 'version' will never look right on a computer monitor. So you can try and make it look good on a nice, 'calibrated' computer monitor but what will it look like on the computer monitor down the hall? Do you use the default Mac gamma of 2.2 or the widely adopted gamma of 1.8? If someone looks like a pumpkin because the camera's white balance was off fix that because something that big will be noticeable to everyone. But if you want to subtly change the tone of a room to engage the viewer on an almost subconscious, emotional level don't even bother because it will never look 'right' on any monitor except yours.

    Part of that might have to do w/monitor setups, but most of it, at least from the threads I remember, has to do with Apple and it's very f*cked up way of handling gamma in video.

    Lethal
     
  9. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #9
    I thought so too, until I got my HD broadcast monitor last week. I've always had problems with my h.264 exports and either lived with it or applied a gamma shift in Compressor.

    I re-graded a short trailer yesterday with the broadcast monitor. Exported the same way I always do and there was no problems. No gamma shift/washed out color at all. It looked identical to my broadcast monitor.

    For reference I have a 30" Dell calibrated with a spyder2. This is what I judged color on before. And while perfect for still photography color, it was not a good reference for video. The broadcast monitor I'm using is the JVC DT-V20L1U being fed by an Intensity Pro card.
     
  10. Pixellated macrumors 65816

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  11. AviationFan macrumors 6502a

    AviationFan

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    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    #11
    That monitor looks interesting, and quite affordable. I had previously looked at its brother, the V20L1DU which has HD-SDI inputs. I was shocked to see the difference in price! Would there be a noticable quality difference from HD-SDI compared with what you have?

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
  12. combatcolin macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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  13. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #13
    Quality cables at short distances will not show any degradation compared to HD-SDI. So as a monitoring solution in an edit bay, it'll be fine.

    I went with the 20" because most of the media I work with is 720p. The monitor looks great with any level of input (SD, 720, and 1080). Ideally, I'd like to get the 24" model with HD-SDI (along with an ioHD/Kona3/MXO2). But until I take on some bigger projects, my budget is more limited and I'm sticking with just a monitoring solution.
     
  14. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Hello. I’m about to purchase FCP and thought I had decided on getting a used Dell 3007WFP-HC 30-inch to use with my with a MacBook Pro 2.2Hhz Core 2 Duo. I know that this screen is not capable of really accurate color, even with color correction, but I wanted something that would make the text easier to read (the timeline and icon text is TINY, and I don't think there's a way to make it bigger). This is why I want a mediocre 30" rather than a high quality 23/24”. I was thinking I’d put the file browser window on the laptop screen, leaving only the viewer, canvas, and timeline on the main screen. (I'm assuming that either the file browser window, the viewer, or the canvas can go on a the laptop, but please correct me if I'm wrong here).

    Two 23/24” monitors are not an currently an option for my workspace, but I would later add a high quality monitor for the canvas, leaving the file browser, viewer, and timeline on the 30 inch, and close my laptop (or better, by that time get a used Mac Pro desktop). Would this work? Any suggestions?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  15. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #15
    putting windows on a 30" will not make the text on them any bigger. if that is what you want, get the dell 27". same resolution as the 24", just bigger.
     
  16. UndertheRadar macrumors member

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    Apr 16, 2007
    #16
    If you don't mind, which connection do you use from the card to monitor?
    Thanks
     
  17. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #17
    I'm running component out to the monitor. I would run HDMI, but the intensity won't output SD resolutions over it. When I upgrade to something like the MXO2 or ioHD, I'll run HDMI into the DVI port on the monitor.
     
  18. highjumppudding macrumors 6502

    highjumppudding

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    #18
    two 23's. youll be more productive with that setup. apple's are the best.
     
  19. Jonnyfive macrumors regular

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    British Columbia
    #19
    I agree!:)
     
  20. macman7002 macrumors regular

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    Apr 28, 2008
    #20
    I would get two 23 inch ACDs not one 30 inch. The 23 inch displays are truest colors. Even though the 30 inch is really cool, 2 23'' is your bet.
     
  21. NRose8989 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Do you have proof of this?
     
  22. mattcube64 macrumors 65816

    mattcube64

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    #22
    Plus, I don't know where you stand financially... but I just hate knowing I *HAVE* to have a top end rig (MP, MBP) to power the 30". You never know when things might get tight, and things might have to start being sold off. At least with the 23" models, you can use them with any computer out there...
     
  23. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #23
    For the truth listen up:

    You can either cut one either one, but the posters that say you will need a broadcast reference monitor are correct. 100% in fact, unless you are strictly outputting for the web.

    As far as color goes for the app, your best bet is either an Eizo, Nec, Apple Cinema, or the 30" Dell (which is the only one that has a good panel). The other low end cheap Dells have the worst color you could possibly imagine and will require constant color adjustments.

    The 23" and 30" ACDs are the SAME save for size.

    Cutting on two monitors is wonderful, but it's a preference. You aren't more productive unless YOU are more productive... personal preference. As a cutter you should be able to cut on anything. Someone calls you, wants you to cut a 2 minute piece on location, you better cut it on a lappy suck it up and get paid. I used to hate editing on a laptop myself, but when the price was quoted, I grabbed my 17" and spit it out in 5 hours.

    Sorry for the rant.

    Now, having used a 30" for photography and video editing, I (personally) would go with 2 23" ACDs or 24" NECs and nothing else.
     
  24. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Los Angeles
    #24
    Color accuracy is really a non-issue as no computer monitor will accurately represent a video image. The only exception being getting a Matrox MXO (not the MXO2) and using it w/an approved monitor such as the 23" ACD.


    Lethal
     
  25. bigbossbmb macrumors 68000

    bigbossbmb

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    #25
    Actually a broadcast monitor is quite useful when going to the web as well. FCP and Color will only display the proper picture on a broadcast monitor. Ever hear of people complaining that their h.264 exports look washed out? that's because they graded the video based on what it looked like on the computer screen... had they used a broadcast monitor, the h.264 would look identical to what they wanted.
     

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