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truthertech

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2016
2,109
2,263
In many places, even using your device while pulled-over is against the law. The issue is not the use of electronic devices. The issue is doing something else while driving. That something else could involve many things, such as looking at a physical map, eating food, grooming oneself, turning to talk to someone, etc.

The issue people have with this situation is that the person was stopped (and thus couldn’t actually hit someone’s car) but because the person was looking at an electronic device (the current zeitgeist), the person received a ticket. Had the person been doing something that didn’t involve an electronic device but still led to them taking 5 s to respond to the green light, no ticket would have been given.


You're not necessarily correct. It's still a violation to sit and block traffic in most all jurisdictions, regardless of the reason. You are also leaving out that since someone is absorbed in their phone, watch, etc., when they do suddenly realize the light is green, they tend to quickly accelerate, and haven't been paying attention to pedestrians, etc., that may have entered their path.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,821
6,876
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A Canadian cop looking to make his ticket quota and trying to impress his bosses how sad cops have nothing better to do.
look out next tickets for breathing too long.

Right ... quota for someone checking their watch 4x to tell the time in 20 seconds? She's NOT 5-8yrs old ... 1 glance without unlocking the watch is enough in 4seconds to tell the time. 1 button press if a notification is on the face and time is there.

Either you don't own an Apple Watch to know how it works or you don't realize turning 20 degrees of your wrist while the watch is on your hand to view the time. The car dashboard has the time too and has in cars for almost 100yrs now! So what is her excuse?!

This cop most likely saved her life!
Key Point: Cop shined a light in her car at her and she drove off (after missing the light change to green)!!
^ proves distraction!



Right there in the first paragraph.
[doublepost=1528026270][/doublepost]
Distracted driving is more dangerous than drunk driving. Driving while eletronically distracted is the same as having four drinks and getting behind the wheel. Distracted driving is increasing while drunk driving is decreasing, and anti-distraction laws are already hard enough to enforce. Cops should ticket it whenever they see it. I’m sure you’d say the same if a member of your family was run over by a texting driver. Rather than attack the officer who did his job, I’ll say that the problem is that distracted driving laws aren’t enforced enough.

BRAVO! Someone gets it!

Key Point: Cop shined a light in her car at her and she drove off (after missing the light change to green)!!

Imagine the cop ignored this and she drives off and BOOM side swiped by another car running the red light!?! Again because she was distracted and NOT paying attention to the road, lights and other cars near the intersection.

Too many drivers think and feel their invincible and just do whatever. Many if tested today all day would loose their license for common infractions based on habits formed by ignoring rules that they must abide by as driving is a PRIVILEDGE not a RIGHT!

There’s no need to use a smart watch or phone while driving.

The time is on your dashboard. Your phone calls and messages can wait for the length of the journey. Notifications won’t suddenly disappear.

I think it’s selfish that drivers are willing to put others at risk just to keep ‘check’ on their social lives, when for many of these messages/apps, the only way to respond appropriately is to use a phone in the first place.

ANOTHER who GETS IT!!!

The policeman granted her the ability to live another day and save a pedestrian's life by correcting this habitual mistake.

Do we have an actual video of this, or do we have the testimony of one flawed human being against another’s and that’s all?

Checking your watch 4 times at a red light seems like NBD to me... could have an important meeting and be super nervously checking to see how much time you have until it.

Failing to move when the light turns green could be an issue... depends on how long it was green for.

I mean... who doesn’t sometimes look at their phone at a red light? They often last several minutes and you’re not moving, so it’s not dangerous. Worst case is you miss when it turns green and waste your time + the time of individuals behind you... but if they didn’t honk, then they’re just as distracted as you are (or you’re wasting no one’s time but your own.)

There is absolutely NO meeting being important enough for ANYONE to check whilst driving or at a stop light?

iOS offers:
DO NOT DISTURB
Audible Alerts & Accessibility announcements & ability to show you a calendar reminder 15mins (default) to alert you about a meeting.
SIRI to vocally send the message you're running late.
Apple & Google Maps to get the quickest and safest route to your destination to get there on time.

Oh wait ... Watch and iPhone have alarms to wake you up get your things in order to leave early for that important meeting.

The ONLY thing and officers will agree mostly, is if someone is on Amber Alert, sudden Death alert or you've just broken your water and about to deliver your baby! none of which occurred here.

"who doesn’t sometimes look at their phone at a red light" This is actually part of the issue. You really shouldn't you should be looking out for other cars, pedestrians crossing - even if they're cutting the light changing. Everyone has a right to walk, driving is a priviledge granted if you continually follow the rules and laws of the roads, signs, etc. Do you really want to risk hitting someone, or getting hit by another careless driver just cause you can't deal with remaining alert at the intersection.

Is the social media, macrumors, your wife's complaint you didn't send her "love you xoxoxoxo" over text before leaving that important? IF you explain the safety concerns and she/he (husband) still complains ... you need to reconsider your relationship or just time that better.

This person really thinks an important meeting is a good excuse for distracted driving -- even at a stoplight, not paying attention around their surroundings. (shakes head).

Sweden: Changed driving a different side of the road in 24hrs back in 1960's, changed road signs, markings road paint, focused on blitzes for road safety. Their car related deaths are less than 250/yr ... per YEAR. adjust the population and directly compare to Canada, Ontario or any one of the United states every year since 1970 and marvel. It's about habits and awareness ... not making or believing in excuses.
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The purpose of being behind that wheel is to drive. Not to check your messages, or even the time (which is obviously easy to do with most all vehicles just by glancing forward at the dashboard), but to drive. The safety of yourself, the passengers in your car whose lives you hold in your hands, and the other people who share the road with you depends on your awareness, your judgement, your skill and ability to handle your vehicle properly and to make decisions in case of unusual circumstances.

If you want to make excuses as to why you should be allowed to use your communication and information devices at all while you are behind the wheel and especially while the vehicle is in motion, you do not belong behind the wheel. I have made a few mistakes in my lifetime when looking down at a map or at my iPad while driving, and I could have lived to regret it if the circumstances were less favorable. I regret those situations now, and I have learned from them. I just hope that other people do not have to pay for similar mistakes with their lives.

Let us NOT forget those pedestrians ... like everyone on this planet have a RIGHT to walk ... driving is a priviledge hence the ability to LOOSE your license!
[doublepost=1528057301][/doublepost]
That’s insane. This is crazy talk. Jail time at the county jail for a traffic offence!? Violence and sexual offences occurred frequently in jail.
[doublepost=1528056326][/doublepost]

The purpose of a traffic offence fine is to create an ouchie moment, not to destroy someone. That’s all I’m saying.

To suggest $5000 or even anything more excessive is more then an ouchie moment for 90% of Canadians unless it gets changed to a criminal offence.

$400 is NOT going to destroy anyone that can a) afford a car, b) insurance, c) afford an Apple watch that costs $450 after taxes for the cheapest one! I'm not sure who suggested $5K maybe I'll re-read the reply to your post for which I quoted. Still, the ouchie moment is a $400 fine ... she didn't get demerit points did she? The OUCHIE for her is her sponsors will take notice as she's in sports an sponsored by Adidas (if it's the same woman).

https://gryphons.ca/roster.aspx?rp_id=7586
 

KAZphoto

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2016
99
46
So should Apple take off map directions off of the watch? I use mine for it but according to most in here that’s too distracting. ‍♂️
 
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Cankoda

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2011
152
251
Canada
A similar happened to me in the US. I was touching my iPhone at a traffic light, as I was trying to figure out my route. The cop was right next to my car, which I didn’t realize. He pulled me over, and I pleaded that I wasn’t texting but rather trying to figure out how to get to my destination.

He gave me a warning and said that the use of any communication device in a car by the driver is illegal, and even if my iPhone were mounted, it would still be illegal. After the incident, I googled this and found out that some cops meet and exceed their ticket quotas by giving tickets to anyone who touched their phones while driving even though only “texting” while driving is explicitly prohibited in my state.

If Ontario bans the use of any hand held communication device while driving, is every car rented out by car rental companies equipped with updates GPS units? I will be in Ontario in 2 weeks, and I need to be able to navigate off my iPhone while driving there.

You can navigate off it no problem, but if you want to interact with it you have to pull over
 

shigzeo

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2005
711
77
Japan
There’s no need to use a smart watch or phone while driving.

The time is on your dashboard. Your phone calls and messages can wait for the length of the journey. Notifications won’t suddenly disappear.

I think it’s selfish that drivers are willing to put others at risk just to keep ‘check’ on their social lives, when for many of these messages/apps, the only way to respond appropriately is to use a phone in the first place.

There are plenty cars without clocks. If I need to know the time I have to check my wristwatch or tap my dash-mounted phone.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Factor in insurance rates for the next 5 years too. I don’t think insurance companies like these kind of tickets.

No, and rightly so, if you are caught using an electronic device or worst cause an accident whilst using one, some insurance companies as I understand won’t touch you, you will have to pay a high premium after.
 
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Ad13

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2015
224
279
Manchester, UK
A similar happened to me in the US. I was touching my iPhone at a traffic light, as I was trying to figure out my route. The cop was right next to my car, which I didn’t realize. He pulled me over, and I pleaded that I wasn’t texting but rather trying to figure out how to get to my destination.

He gave me a warning and said that the use of any communication device in a car by the driver is illegal, and even if my iPhone were mounted, it would still be illegal. After the incident, I googled this and found out that some cops meet and exceed their ticket quotas by giving tickets to anyone who touched their phones while driving even though only “texting” while driving is explicitly prohibited in my state.

If Ontario bans the use of any hand held communication device while driving, is every car rented out by car rental companies equipped with updates GPS units? I will be in Ontario in 2 weeks, and I need to be able to navigate off my iPhone while driving there.
Then I suppose very taxi driver is breaking the law too! They constantly touch their displays for routes etc.
 
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Wanted797

macrumors 68000
Oct 28, 2011
1,707
3,583
Australia
I’ve wondered about the watch, I never use my phone while driving (I used to a fiat but years ago). I’ve found the watch even hard and more annoying to use while driving. Yet it’s not specified in laws.

Definitely should be included but I still find it odd that is perfectly okay to tinker with the radio or gps in the dash.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
I’ve wondered about the watch, I never use my phone while driving (I used to a fiat but years ago). I’ve found the watch even hard and more annoying to use while driving. Yet it’s not specified in laws.

Definitely should be included but I still find it odd that is perfectly okay to tinker with the radio or gps in the dash.

It’s not, you can use your cars own devices but if you are caught for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention because you were fiddling with the cars radio you will be fined for it as it’s illegal still. Your in a car to drive and concentrate on the road end off.
Like if you’re busy fiddling with the cars stereo and swerved to the other side of the road and a cop sees you, they’ll have you for driving without due care and attention or similar, distracted driving offence.
 
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JRobinsonJr

macrumors 6502a
Aug 20, 2015
667
1,205
Arlington, Texas
If it distracted her enough to miss the light, sounds fine to me. These days it’s not that hard to tell when someone is distracted by their phone while driving. You can see their head tilted down and to the center of the car at the phone. On the highway they will suddenly diengage from the speed of traffic and then snap back after a minute. On the street they will space out green lights. Everyone who commutes sees it every day. The problem is most people are also guilty of it from time to time. The only way to cut back this behavior is to start stepping up ticketting, and make it known that cops will jump at the opportunity to get you for it.

Whil, in general, i agree with the distracted driving laws, this argument is at best misguided. The whole point of all traffic controls / laws / etc. is to ensure the safety of you and everyone around you. How, exactly, was this lady negatively impacting safety. The vehicle wasn’t moving, and neither were those around her, therfore there was zero probability of her causing an accident! If she had been moving this would be a very different scenario.

IMHO, one of the reasons that the collective “we” dont follow driving laws more fully is because they are enforced as revenue generatora without the use of logic.
 
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truthertech

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2016
2,109
2,263
Whil, in general, i agree with the distracted driving laws, this argument is at best misguided. The whole point of all traffic controls / laws / etc. is to ensure the safety of you and everyone around you. How, exactly, was this lady negatively impacting safety. The vehicle wasn’t moving, and neither were those around her, therfore there was zero probability of her causing an accident! If she had been moving this would be a very different scenario.

IMHO, one of the reasons that the collective “we” dont follow driving laws more fully is because they are enforced as revenue generatora without the use of logic.


You don't understand how many accidents are caused by cars hitting, and at times killing, pedestrians, kids on bicycles, that elderly woman who can't walk fast enough to make it across the street before the light turns, in the intersection or other cars that may have entered the intersection while you are focused on your Twitter feed or reading your friends latest Instagram post about the great taco he just ate at the cool new food truck and look up too late to see granny stepping out in front of your car.

There's also the many road rage incidents from when people honk at your distracted self sitting at a green light. You then flip then off. More words and stupid driving ensues until someone pulls out a gun. All because you had to see how many likes your facebook post received of your grainy and overexposed picture of Taylor Swift at the concert
 
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AmazingRobie

macrumors 6502
Jun 10, 2009
293
155
Has anyone been to the airport lately? Things used to be laxed there too a while back. You guys keep saying, “whah-whah, i wanna do what i want while driving my car, even if it causes inconvenience or death to others, whaaahh.” Just wait until youre deemed terrorists, because thats what you are to others who are watching you mess up while behind the wheel of a vehicle. When you drive, prepare before hand, know your route, drink and eat before turning on the ignition, set the radio before moving or have preprogrammed stations. How hard is that? Stop being a bunch of useless, disrespectful, ****s to others or suffer the consequences of having the system adapt to compensate for your ignorance. If people actually did what they were supposed to, flying would not be the huge inconvenience it is today...
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
Good

We have distracting driving laws for a reason

Since Ontario banned the use of mobile devices behind the wheel, traffic collisions, especially fatal ones have dramatically decreases. The laws work.

People who argue against these sort of regulations are pretty self centered. Distracting driving should be stopped whenever police see it


When I get in my car, my phone gotta immediately into the centre console until I arrive at my destination
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
I’ve found the watch even hard and more annoying to use while driving.

Yes it is. And that’s one of the reasons, if Apple doesn’t get Siri working up to at least the same level of it’s competitors that the Apple Watch will lose its foothold in the wearables area.

I just read about a traditional watch that has a small OLED display window in the dial and works with Alexa. If digital assistants are reliable, then there’s few reasons to look at the watch face ever. Just ask the assistant to announce the time, or the sender, or read the contents of the text. Turn by turn directions are read aloud as well.

The woman was staring at the Apple Watch screen, because Siri is useless, and a user needs to use the screen. But good digital assistants relieve the user from the need to look at the screen. So in the future, no watch needs a display like the Apple Watch unless they just want one, and that’ll substantially increase the battery life too, as well as prevent Heise kinds of dangerous traffic distractions.
 

goonie4life9

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2010
691
1,459
I don't disagree with what you said, with the exception of your linking this behavior to electronic devices only. All of the empirical data indicate that it is distracted driving per se, not the specific form (e.g., looking at an electronic device, looking at a physical map, talking to someone in the car, etc.), that is the problem. However, most laws only deal with the current zeitgeist rather than the actual issue, distracted driving. That is the issue people have with this.

You're not necessarily correct. It's still a violation to sit and block traffic in most all jurisdictions, regardless of the reason. You are also leaving out that since someone is absorbed in their phone, watch, etc., when they do suddenly realize the light is green, they tend to quickly accelerate, and haven't been paying attention to pedestrians, etc., that may have entered their path.
 

DeepIn2U

macrumors G5
May 30, 2002
12,821
6,876
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
There are plenty cars without clocks. If I need to know the time I have to check my wristwatch or tap my dash-mounted phone.

OK ... challenge on.

Name three car models (not just manufacturers) of cars that where produced and made available for public sale, mass produced and from the factory or show room made street legal ... in the last 90yrs that came without a clock (Analog or digital) that the driver can see (dashboard, tachometer or similar front steering wheel view) ?!

PS: In other words the McLaren F1 didn't come with a clock and at 1 Million was not made street legal at the factory it had to be made that way upon order for the country you lived in (outside of UK, USA, Canada, and France).
 

tridley68

macrumors 68000
Aug 28, 2014
1,746
2,505
so i guess you prefer a cop not doing his "policing" job if there's a car in-front of you that doesn't move during green light...
It is very simple drive around them if you are in such a hurry
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So let me get this straight. A cop that is doing his job and following the law is bad in your opinion ? Nothing better to do ? Really ? Because to me he is doing EXACTLY what he was hired to do. Get a life. Oh and sign up to be a cop. I bet your whole ridiculous attitude towards them would change once in their shoes.
Dude there is no way in h-ll I would be a cop they constantly have poor attitudes and walk around with chips on their shoulders like they are better than everyone else and for your information I have a life so chill out
 

Kabeyun

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2004
3,412
6,350
Eastern USA
I say stay the crap out of my car. If I'm swirving - ticket me. If I'm speeding - ticket me. If I'm looking at my [internet-connected, text-message-capable, multimedia-displaying, interactive, basically-a-small-smartphone-on-your-wrist] watch at a RED light and I don't go immediately - that's NO WHERE CLOSE to a ticket. No how, no way.
Unless, of course, it is. Feel free to look up the law in your state. Unfortunately it won’t necessarily be what your gut wants it to be.

And by the way, what should the cop do if he looks over and sees you in your non-swerving, non-speeding open a bottle of whiskey? Or snort some coke? Still stay out of your car?
 
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tridley68

macrumors 68000
Aug 28, 2014
1,746
2,505
But it's ok for cops to play on their computer while driving and talk on our tax payer funded cell phones while driving they believe they are above every one else
 

CPTmom2wp

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2014
410
479
Ohio
That’s why we to keep working on autonomous driving to take human error out.

Ask Elon Musk or Uber or Google how that is working out. I prefer being in control of my own driving and knowing I can respond to other driver's errors (defensive driving).
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,038
9,690
Vancouver, BC
A Canadian cop looking to make his ticket quota and trying to impress his bosses how sad cops have nothing better to do.
look out next tickets for breathing too long.

What a silly remark.

The evidence was that the driver failed to respond to the green light until after the officer shone a light into her car. She may have even drove forward if the light was still red simply because of that trigger. I know that I've been triggered by a car honking only to realize that the light was not yet green. There are factors that play into such circumstances. In my case, I was not having a good day. My brain was tired, and I was not thinking clearly. This person, being a student, may have also been tired and not thinking with 100% clarity. So the safest decision would have been to not let your digital device distract you at all.

A person of rested mind may have had no problem in that exact same scenario. That's why laws target the lowest common denominator — to keep everyone safe. It does not make the police officer a bad guy for enforcing the law.

Your comment comes from a particular vantage point. That vantage point would change drastically if you or your family was affected by distracted driving. Guaranteed.
 
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CPTmom2wp

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2014
410
479
Ohio
And if this argument was *really* taken seriously, every single new vehicle sold would get rid of the big touch-screen display in the front of it for the GPS system and stereo QUOTE]


Great Point!

I might also argue that if my left hand is at the 10:00 position and I look at my watch for GPS, time, or to connect a call, it is a great deal safer than looking at the big (and getting bigger) touch-screen displays at the lower right position.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,038
9,690
Vancouver, BC
Ask Elon Musk or Uber or Google how that is working out. I prefer being in control of my own driving and knowing I can respond to other driver's errors (defensive driving).

Defensive driving can also be a form of aggressive driving. And that contributes to increased stress on the road for everyone. And the biggest problem on the road is drivers not thinking about anybody else, only themselves. Such driving may get you from Point A to Point B safely, but you may not have left other drivers in a calmer state of being. Something to think about next time you choose that tactic. We should all work towards helping each other out and being friendlier to each other on the roads.
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The purpose of being behind that wheel is to drive. Not to check your messages, or even the time (which is obviously easy to do with most all vehicles just by glancing forward at the dashboard), but to drive.

Yup, and the Apple Watch even has voice-activated Siri to check the time. So there's no excuse for this driver. None. That's just become one expensive Apple Watch...
[doublepost=1528070445][/doublepost]
Whoa - "whenever" they see it. ANYTHING can cause a distraction. Makeup. Radio. Billboards. Other drivers. Passengers.

I say stay the crap out of my car. If I'm swirving - ticket me. If I'm speeding - ticket me. If I'm looking at my watch at a RED light and I don't go immediately - that's NO WHERE CLOSE to a ticket. No how, no way.

I get distracted driving, I do. But this was WAY over the line.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. This officer, and the law itself, is designed to prevent accidents. This officer did his job by (a) noticing a situation, and (b) taking action before anything drastic happened. He observed before he acted. He did not just act without first observing a pattern of behaviour.

Imagine if he did nothing, and this person was over-tired and caused an accident 3 miles down the road? His action sent a strong message to this driver, and to all drivers that think it's okay to be distracted by a smart watch, that driving needs to come first when you're sharing the public roads with others. I applaud his actions, even if the fine was really extreme. She'll think twice next time, and so will others due to this being in the news.
 
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