Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
ChatGPT is becoming an even faster google. They are not wasting time dropping stuff that isn't working. It's a crazy time. Sora 2 app was amazing but it wasn't making their goals and they dropped one of the best video models in existence. I think this is a good trait in this rapidly evolving scene but it's hard for users to know what products to try and how much to invest when things are only around for 5 minutes. But thankfully Codex is absolutely amazing.
 
Last edited:
Black and white thinking is a common trait of conservative folk. Short-sightedness and "me-me-me" are two more traits. That's why the Western world is stuck where it is, while China and other Asian markets are fully embracing the future. It's a shame to watch how close-minded such large swaths of people can be when we literally have the technology and resources to create a true utopia on Earth.
Black and white thinking is a common trait of....check notes ....people I disagree with and thus demonstrate black and white thinking. lol. Conservative/liberal itself is black and white thinking. This wouldn't be more funny if it was a parody.
 
Wait, if AI isn’t doing that, then why is it getting so much spend?

The spend is on a scale where it needs to take all the jobs or it can’t be justified.
1783815887830.png
 
  • Wow
Reactions: amartinez1660
Up until recently the app would frequently prompt covering the whole app asking the user to download Atlas. And each time declined. When the user says no repeatedly it only builds hatred. Instead at least the app could have have had a one time optional survey asking why the user choose to decline it and maybe learn from that info.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amartinez1660
Got curious about what is this about
gpt-live-1 is a reengineering of the gpt voice model. basically, this model thinks through the llm, which means that as gpus get faster and can accommodate more vram, we’ll get faster reasoning.

in the worst-case scenario, where an llm’s understanding of the physical world remains limited by its neural architecture, we would still end up with a form of general intelligence that surpasses humans at most of the virtual tasks and jobs we do today.

then plug world models into the architecture and, yeah, that’s basically an oracle computer, or agi. it would be able to communicate with us and reason alongside humans in a way that surpasses any other human interaction when it comes to explaining or communicating an idea
 
It is when some amount of return on investment is eventually expected and everyone finally realizes that no one is actually willing to pay what it actually costs for for all of this LLM data processing

Not to mention when people stop accepting LLM data centres in there locals sucking up all said their water an electricity
you’re still framing the ai revolution as if it were a temporary phase. like this is some sandbox experiment, everyone plays with it for a while, then the bill arrives and we all decide to go back to how things worked before.

that’s not where we are anymore. ai is already changing entire industries, workflows, products, and business models. the idea that people will simply stop using it once they see the real cost is just not realistic. there is no stopping the train now. either you get on, or you get left behind, but the train itself is not stopping.

and the data-center race does not depend entirely on whether local populations approve of it. sure, in the eu and the us, democratically elected politicians may respond to public concern about water, energy, and the environment. they should. those concerns are real.

but the blunt truth is that large parts of the world are not democratic and will not slow down because local communities object. this is a global strategic race. either democratic countries find a way to build this infrastructure wisely, sustainably, and with public oversight, or they will be outpaced by countries that do not care nearly as much about those constraints.

that is the actual problem. not whether ai stops, but who builds it, under what rules, and at whose expense
 
  • Like
Reactions: amartinez1660
you’re still framing the ai revolution as if it were a temporary phase. like this is some sandbox experiment, everyone plays with it for a while, then the bill arrives and we all decide to go back to how things worked before.

So keeping in mind that neither open AI nor Anthropic are actually profitable, who’s going to pay for it all if it turns out that human labour is actually cheaper than running LLMs?
 
Last edited:
So keeping in mind that neither open AI nor Anthropic are actually profitable, who’s going to pay for it all if it turns out that human labour is actually cheaper than running LLMs?
that’s a flawed argument. their lack of profitability is not because they can’t make money. it’s because they’re in a race.

i understand why that’s hard to see for some people, particularly if they don’t really grasp how exponential growth works, but the amount of money these companies are already making from users is larger than what we’ve seen from almost any other breakthrough product in the last decade.

it would be stupid to run this revolution like an old-school business, because this changes everything.

and the human-labour argument is flawed too. people say they’d rather hire a human intern because something like fable 5 is too expensive per hour, but fable is not a fixed point. none of these models are fixed products. they keep improving.

the amount of intelligence anthropic can produce today, at a given cost, is not even remotely the same as what it cost them to produce that same level of intelligence one year ago.

that’s the scary part.

to put it in geeky millennial terms, i’ve spent months, if not years, building hackintosh systems. going low-level, making pc laptops behave like macbooks, turning gaming pcs into mac pro equivalents, hacking ipods with larger hard drives.

two years ago, i was happy just to use ai to accelerate config generation and fix errors in my boot files. a year ago, i was excited that cursor could help me write an entire aml file or build the equivalent of a dsdt table.

this week, i gave gpt sol a raspberry pi, a zigbee power socket, and a genki hdmi capture card.

then i instructed an algorithm to turn that raspberry pi into a virtual usb keyboard, use the hdmi input to inspect the machine before it even posted, and power-cycle it through zigbee whenever it needed to reboot.

basically, an algorithm built an entire hackintosh running ventura, from zero to hero, using scraps from my garage.

that is the point people keep missing.

this intelligence is not static. the capability keeps going up, the cost keeps coming down, and eventually this kind of intelligence will be effectively free.

FUN fact: gpt sol basically googled the motherboard, figured out how many tabs and key presses it needed to reach the right bios settings, and then navigated there on its own.

how did it get into the bios? by sending a script that spammed the del key over and over until the bios menu appeared. it used the genki capture card to “see” whether the key presses had worked.

then, once the machine was up, it logged in over ssh and abandoned the raspberry pi keyboard entirely.
 
i understand why that’s hard to see for some people, particularly if they don’t really grasp how exponential growth works,

that is the point people keep missing.

assuming that people don't understand something because they disagree with you is not an argument

i’ve spent months, if not years,

which is it?

going low-level, making pc laptops behave like macbooks, turning gaming pcs into mac pro equivalents,

you make building a hackintosh sound so dramatic! 😉 running macOS on x86 really isn't that complicated, anyone that can follow written English instructions can do it so long as they have the right hardware

the amount of money these companies are already making from users is larger than what we’ve seen from almost any other breakthrough product in the last decade.

that's a pretty broad and vague statement. do you have any numbers there? how do they compare to zoom? or tic toc?

the fact is the majority of their cash comes from investors rather than users

it would be stupid to run this revolution like an old-school business, because this changes everything

sounds a bit vague and meaningless true believer-esque

and the human-labour argument is flawed too. people say they’d rather hire a human intern because something like fable 5 is too expensive per hour, but fable is not a fixed point. none of these models are fixed products. they keep improving.

they also keep requiring more and more resources and costing more and more money
 
Last edited:
So, the dotcom bubble was pretty tame after all in comparison, didn’t seem like that. Maybe the media doing the usual exaggeration media things for all us to stress about.

I guess if you consider $5 trillion tame

I would posit that the real lesson from that chart is the correlation between the steepness of the rise to the depth of the crash
 
  • Like
Reactions: amartinez1660
the idea that people will simply stop using it once they see the real cost is just not realistic. there is no stopping the train now. either you get on, or you get left behind, but the train itself is not stopping.

The rebound comes as investors grow uneasy about the mind-boggling sums of cash continually being poured into the AI data center buildout, despite there being no obvious indicator for when investors will get a return on their investment.

Apple's decision to sit out the data center spending spree and instead pay Google for access to its frontier AI models is being increasingly seen by traders as an asset rather than a liability.
 
Last edited:
assuming that people don't understand something because they disagree with you is not an argument



which is it?



you make building a hackintosh sound so dramatic! 😉 running macOS on x86 really isn't that complicated, anyone that can follow written English instructions can do it so long as they have the right hardware



that's a pretty broad and vague statement. do you have any numbers there? how do they compare to zoom? or tic toc?

the fact is the majority of their cash comes from investors rather than users



sounds a bit vague and meaningless true believer-esque



they also keep requiring more and more resources and costing more and more money
i'm a millennial, it has been years. and sure, building a hackintosh is not black magic, it is plain voodoo. if you want a two-point touchpad to behave like a multitouch trackpad from a macbook of the generation you are aiming to craft, that is another matter.

the goal was to illustrate the exponential. gpt-3.5 turbo wouldn’t have been able to achieve this in an agentic fashion, because the term “agentic” wasn't even clear to begin with. fable can do it today. you could even configure fable to run on the same hardware they used to serve gpt-3.5 turbo, just to illustrate that the progress is damn real.

anthropic started 2025 at roughly $1 billion in run-rate revenue. by august, it was above $5 billion. by october, it was at $7 billion. by early may 2026, it had crossed $47 billion. that is roughly 47x growth in about sixteen months, or approximately one doubling every three months. anthropic itself says its run-rate revenue grew by more than 10x annually during each of its first three years. these are company-reported annualized numbers, not profit, so they should not be confused with cash in the bank. but they make “nobody is willing to pay for this” a very difficult argument to maintain. people are paying for it at a rate that is itself accelerating.

the fact that anthropic is not profitable does not somehow cancel that growth. it means expenditure is growing even faster than revenue because they are funding research, infrastructure, and capacity ahead of demand. that could absolutely go wrong. whole companies can disappear. but profitability and product demand are two different questions, and pretending $47 billion in run-rate revenue is just investors passing money around is no longer a serious description of the business.

the expensive frontier model of today becomes the smaller, cheaper, and more specialized model of tomorrow. the cost of discovering a capability and the cost of repeatedly serving that capability are not the same thing. frontier research can become more expensive while the price of a useful unit of intelligence keeps falling. those two curves can coexist.

more importantly, scaling llms is not necessarily the final architecture. it is the profitable architecture we already know works.

if you are seriously pursuing agi, the rational move is to fund both paths at once: keep scaling llms because they already reason, communicate, use tools, and generate revenue, while also funding world models as one of the most plausible missing pieces for physical intelligence.

just the idea of world models is worth pivoting for, or creating a whole new lab around. using llm-accelerated or agentic technology to build world models is probably one of the strongest arguments for justifying the bet. it would be duplex for physics, basically, rather than overscaling physics through language, which, in my own scientific opinion, would work, but would be a massive brute-force endeavour built around overdescribing pixels in a language based latent space.

being able to train cause and effect in the physical world is worth fighting for. we either do it, or we let other actors do it.

solving duplex is not just about the flow of communication. it is about accelerating them to the point where they can think ahead and prevent things with enough anticipation and perspective. technically, it means making a gpu fast enough to run sol or fable at a token speed that is an order of magnitude faster than what they can do now. but technically fable could do it, and we have already built it.

the opportunity for growth for all of us is present after every new generation.

i wouldn’t worry about an ai collapse. that is probably never going to happen. what i worry about is who gets to decide how we train a cause-and-effect neural network.

i used to worry about stranded hardware, particularly older generation gpus and servers that were not optimized for the minimum acceptable precision point needed to train llms. but then again, i wasn’t really accounting for the exponential growth in intelligence, they have already provided, or for how that growth could preserve and in some cases increase the value of hardware we’ve already had for years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amartinez1660
it would be duplex for physics, basically, rather than overscaling physics through language, which, in my own scientific opinion, would work, but would be a massive brute-force endeavour built around overdescribing pixels in a language based latent space.

being able to train cause and effect in the physical world is worth fighting for. we either do it, or we let other actors do it.

solving duplex is not just about the flow of communication. it is about accelerating them to the point where they can think ahead and prevent things with enough anticipation and perspective. technically, it means making a gpu fast enough to run sol or fable at a token speed that is an order of magnitude faster than what they can do now. but technically fable could do it, and we have already built it.

you're using "duplex" to do two different jobs. first it's bidirectional physical modelling ("duplex for physics"). then it's inference latency ("a gpu fast enough to run sol or fable an order of magnitude faster"). those aren't the same problem, and the ambiguity is what lets "fable can technically solve duplex" imply "fable can technically do world models" which you never argue. pick one and the claim gets much smaller either way.

and you wave off pixel-space world modelling as brute force while conceding it "would work." but your whole revenue argument is that brute force is fine, discovery cost and serving cost are different curves, today's expensive frontier method is tomorrow's cheap one. you can't have it both ways. what actually goes wrong with the pixel-space route? worse sample efficiency on causal structure? a ceiling?
 
but the blunt truth is that large parts of the world are not democratic and will not slow down because local communities object. this is a global strategic race. either democratic countries find a way to build this infrastructure wisely, sustainably, and with public oversight, or they will be outpaced by countries that do not care nearly as much about those constraints.

This is the same argument Canadian politicians are always making about oil extraction, meanwhile our sub arctic forests are literally on fire.
 
then plug world models into the architecture and, yeah, that’s basically an oracle computer, or agi. it would be able to communicate with us and reason alongside humans in a way that surpasses any other human interaction when it comes to explaining or communicating an idea


this article would probably interest you. it does a half decent of explaining what world models are and are not. Thohh some of the interviewees do go on to sort of transfer the vaporous promises of LLMs on to the rabbit in the next hat over

“The idea that you’re going to extend the capabilities of LLMs to the point that they’re going to have human-level intelligence is complete nonsense”

“I think we’re in an LLM bubble, and I think the LLM bubble might be bursting next year”


….


as for your "oracle computer...agi" fantasy, that's a longer discussion I'm happy to get in to later when I have more time

(I’m assuming you mean “oracle computer” as some sort sci-fi idea and neither the technical computer science sense nor the company of the same name)
 
Last edited:
Black and white thinking is a common trait of conservative folk. Short-sightedness and "me-me-me" are two more traits. That's why the Western world is stuck where it is, while China and other Asian markets are fully embracing the future. It's a shame to watch how close-minded such large swaths of people can be when we literally have the technology and resources to create a true utopia on Earth.
Im a conservative person. Mr Black and White. China has zero blockages from where they want to go because its the govt has all the rights and people are just bugs in the way. High speed rail? Done. No land rights lawsuits or environmental studies. Manufacturing? No unions to force higher wages. Take the profits as a socialist system. There is little to no human rights.

Glorifying China while complaining about conservatives being why the Western world is "stuck". *giant eyeroll*

Im guessing your "utopia" looks a lot like dystopian novels.
 
Last edited:
I absolutely LOVE ChatGPT Atlas. I use it everyday. When browsing, I can just click Ask Chat and ask for some assistance regarding the contents on the current page. I am a web developer by trade. This is especially useful when trying to figure out some issue on the page
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacBirdy
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.