Bravo! OP this is the best post I have ever seen on MR my hat is off to you sir.
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'OpenMac' Promises $399 Headless Mac... But Not From Apple
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Bravo! OP this is the best post I have ever seen on MR my hat is off to you sir.
No jokes, but I actually liked the IBM Aptiva (at the time). For some reason it was so much more fun to buy a computer back then than it is now. Back then people weren't buying for specs they were buying a computer because it was fun and back then computers (especially PC's) came with A LOT of full versions of software.
Sadly my first PC was the HP desktop but I had regrets not getting the Aptiva.
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Man, too bad this wasn't available a couple of months ago. I wouldn't have bothered upgrading this PowerMac and would have gotten a decked out "OpenMac" instead for about the same price that could run Intel games, etc. that only a MacPro could hope to compete with. This package blows away all of Apple's sub $2000 offerings for 1/2 to 1/5 the price.
Really, even those of you that are screaming bloody murder should think twice because at the very least this might encourage Apple to get off their greedy hind ends and offer a reasonable mid-priced tower Mac already! You shouldn't have to buy a $2400-2700 Mac Pro just to play a 2008 game! This system could do it for under $700!
Really, even those of you that are screaming bloody murder should think twice because at the very least this might encourage Apple to get off their greedy hind ends and offer a reasonable mid-priced tower Mac already! You shouldn't have to buy a $2400-2700 Mac Pro just to play a 2008 game! This system could do it for under $700!
Illegal? Debateable.
Bullcrap? Yes. How dare they reap the benefits of many peoples hard work to make a buck.
Bullcrap? Yes. How dare they reap the benefits of many peoples hard work to make a buck.
The Mac Mini is not 150% more than the OpenMac for two reasons:
1) When using a percent as a comparison, saying 150% more than $400 would mean $1000. This is inaccurate because a Mac Mini only costs $600.
2) What you meant to say, 50% more, is innacurate because the Mac Mini includes OS X and the OpenMac doesn't. The OpenMac really costs $554 which is significantly less than the Mac Mini (8.3% more to get a Mac Mini). When you consider the display ($250), the keyboard ($40) and the mouse ($20), The OpenMac costs $864 vs the Mac Mini which costs $910, which is only a 5.3% difference.
That said, I still support the attack of the clones, it could bring some more competitive pricing from Apple. Also, I know it's called OpenComputer now, I just like the sound of openmac better.
Well said on ars, clones may make sense later -- but Apple has not deemed them something to do now.Gary54 said:
Hard to fault the guys who turned a turd into a company with cash in the bank.
Apple may hit that tipping point in the future, we aren't there yet...
I love this Post.
Steve Jobs Mr Apple is very smart except for marketing and taking care of the customer.
If he were good in marketing, Apple would have been the only PC out there!
He had the lead PC's and IBM were an after thought. But Pc's were cheaper and look what happed, Apple just about went under.
It is no different now. Steve is very innovative, but what about the customer. He doesn't care! He only wants his margin of profit.
If he had licensed his operating system, there would be no Microsoft! He is doing the same thing all over.
Apple has moved production on a lot of items to China. Where's the quality!
Have you called Apple Tech support? Most of those jobs have been farmed out to India! Plus there hours stink 6am-6pm! Just about Bankers hours! Not exactly looking out for the poor working guy Ha!!!
So why are they so over-priced? Not because of build, quality, or speed. They typically use parts that are towards the end of a build cycle and thus cheaper. It's because of the stable OS.
Look at the iPod and iphone. The batteries are built in not replaceable unless you send them in to Apple. I guess Apple hopes you will throw it away and buy a new one instead of repairing it!
If Mr Jobs was a better businessman and took care of the customer IE you and me, he would have been the richest man in the world, not Mr Microsoft!
After all these years, Microsoft still can't match the Apple OS and Mr Jobs makes you pay for it dearly in the form of over-priced boxes.
Again Mr jobs is innovative, but he is using the same business practices and pricing models that brought the company down in the 80's. Remember the Mac+, MacII and so on Just Like the ipod and imac, Way ahead of their time awsome machines but too expensive!!! He opend the door for the IBM PC and Microsoft.
Stop crying!!!
I <3 apples, I have used them for 15+ years, and you know what....
I'm excited about the opencomputer (terrible name though)
I LOVE THAT I CAN GET A JUNKY SYSTEM THAT I CAN TINKER WITH FOR UNDER $500!
I'm sorry; but my g5 is now dead (still owe money on it) and I'm bitter.
Apple used to be the underdog; but now it seems like they are rich kids toys.
Like the rich kid in highschool who didn't know a thing about cars but still, drove a porsche his dad bought him. I feel like the mechanic who knows the car inside and out but can't afford one.
This may be the breath of fresh air apple needs; so computer people will be interested in apples again; not MALL PEOPLE
I <3 apples, I have used them for 15+ years, and you know what....
I'm excited about the opencomputer (terrible name though)
I LOVE THAT I CAN GET A JUNKY SYSTEM THAT I CAN TINKER WITH FOR UNDER $500!
I'm sorry; but my g5 is now dead (still owe money on it) and I'm bitter.
Apple used to be the underdog; but now it seems like they are rich kids toys.
Like the rich kid in highschool who didn't know a thing about cars but still, drove a porsche his dad bought him. I feel like the mechanic who knows the car inside and out but can't afford one.
This may be the breath of fresh air apple needs; so computer people will be interested in apples again; not MALL PEOPLE
Everyone wanted a desktop PC to fit the gap between the Mini and the Mac Pro so now you got it! OK, it's not really exactly a MAC but runs the OS. If you got money by an "Apple" but if not it might be worth a try. $400 is nothing compared to let's say, buyng memory at the Apple web site.
Illegal? Debateable.
Bullcrap? Yes. How dare they reap the benefits of many peoples hard work to make a buck.
Yes. Absolute bullcrap. And while we're at it, nobody should ever be allowed to make ANY money off of anyone else's work EVER. Your local Nuclear plant? Shut it down, Enstein invented that, and HE'S not seeing anything for it... Your BMW? Screw that, they should be paying royalties to Ford because they're reaping the benefits of learning from their manufacturing! While we're at it, screw OSX because it's built ON TOP of another operating system! The gall!
A true demonstration of ignorance and prejudice... that's what plagues this forum.
Fixed it for you.
I was just about to make a gigantic multi-quote of all the moronic fanbois (and their complimentary opposites) who posted in this thread when I remembered that it simply is a representation of what is wrong with the world and no matter how much I scream at them it won't make people less idiotic. Unfortunately...
Illegal? Debateable.
Bullcrap? Yes. How dare they reap the benefits of many peoples hard work to make a buck.
So true Apple didn't use a line of code they didn't write in OS X, in case you didn't notice I was being sarcastic..
Yes. Absolute bullcrap. And while we're at it, nobody should ever be allowed to make ANY money off of anyone else's work EVER. Your local Nuclear plant? Shut it down, Enstein invented that, and HE'S not seeing anything for it... Your BMW? Screw that, they should be paying royalties to Ford because they're reaping the benefits of learning from their manufacturing! While we're at it, screw OSX because it's built ON TOP of another operating system! The gall!
Beat me too it should have read a little farther in the thread...
Illegal? Debateable.
Bullcrap? Yes. How dare they reap the benefits of many peoples hard work to make a buck.
That's called capitalism, mate, which the country of America is very fond of. Apple provides Bootcamp, so that its users can reap the benefits of Microsoft's work on Windows. Why shouldn't others be allowed to use MacOS when they pay for it?
I am not American, but i know that the system of capitalism is *god* in American culture and business. And that is why I am SO SURPRISED to see that so many people in this forum fear Apple's competition. The natural way to react should rather be gratitude, because competition between companies is actually what drives technology forward and at same time drives the prices down. This benefits the consumer. So you have me totally confused with your whining and moaning.
Although I am not against this product, I still wouldn't ever buy it but somehow I think you are just blowing smoke. If you really wanted something like this product (which is a Hackintosh) you could've built one yourself like many others have so far.
Woke up this morning, thought I'd check back and this topic is still going. Good grief people don't you have anything better to do
That said, if this does come off why doesn't Apple set up a separate company called 'Pears' (or whatever) and make a decent quality clone. The different name would keep it at arm's length with Apple as the premium brand. They could be sold with a list of supported add ons - anything else and you are on your own. This would cover the enthusiast crew, give some scope to the X86ers to produce something useful and allow them to cover a currently untouched part of the market. Not sure if it would work but it might be a handy response.
I think Sony did something similar years ago under the Aiwa name in HiFi systems. They were pretty much Sony designed, but sold at a lower price to cover a different market segment.
That said, if this does come off why doesn't Apple set up a separate company called 'Pears' (or whatever) and make a decent quality clone. The different name would keep it at arm's length with Apple as the premium brand. They could be sold with a list of supported add ons - anything else and you are on your own. This would cover the enthusiast crew, give some scope to the X86ers to produce something useful and allow them to cover a currently untouched part of the market. Not sure if it would work but it might be a handy response.
I think Sony did something similar years ago under the Aiwa name in HiFi systems. They were pretty much Sony designed, but sold at a lower price to cover a different market segment.
Not even wrong. OSX will run better on that machine than any current Mac Laptop, the Mac Mini and the iMac.
Given that 600 people, more than 50% (just) of people commenting on this thread think it's a good thing, 'I bet they haven't even sold 3 yet' is unarguably a presumptuous blinkered fanboy attitude.
Apple claimed to be making a 'cheap' mac for everyone with the Mac Mini - but charge £500 for the only one worth buying ( combo drive, in 2008 = insult )
For £500 Dell will sell you a SIGNIFICANTLY faster processor, twice the memory, dedicated graphics, a bigger, faster hard drive, and a 20 inch monitor and a case that, in all real practical terms, is not really larger. If you could buy that with OSX on it - at that price - it would be a genuine opportunity for Apple to make inroads into the mass market.
Meanwhile - the zealouts on this forum will continue to exercise the blinkered fanboyism that gives Apple such a bad name.
The shift to Intel was one of the best decisions Apple made. But it's also demonstrating, quite clearly, many of the bad decisions they continue to make.
Doug
Checked their site again this morning and they've launched the "OpenPro" - a headless desktop starting at $999.99, more in line with iMac range specs than Mini specs. Although toute as "Pro" it is not directly comparable with a Mac Pro due to it's use of Core2Duo and Core2Quad CPUs rather than Quad Xeons.
http://www.psystar.com/the_community_has_spoken.html
OpenPro configuration page with pics
Of course, no-one has any proof yet as to whether this is vapourware or not, but this, I believe, *would* cater for the more important gaping hole in Apple's lineup; the upgradeable, higher end "Prosumer" level.
Of course, OS X running on these machines is still a hacked version with the inherent risks that that carries.
http://www.psystar.com/the_community_has_spoken.html
OpenPro configuration page with pics
Of course, no-one has any proof yet as to whether this is vapourware or not, but this, I believe, *would* cater for the more important gaping hole in Apple's lineup; the upgradeable, higher end "Prosumer" level.
Of course, OS X running on these machines is still a hacked version with the inherent risks that that carries.
I am very surprised this has become as big of a news story as it has. All this "company" is doing is essentially providing a service. All these parts are available to you already at newegg, they're just assembling them for you. The offer of including or installing OSX is also just a service (one I think they will have to drop)to do something you have been able to do for quite a while now.
It's kind of sad to see the utter lack of understanding of pretty much anything about project OSx86. Judging by all the news sites offering this story and most of the responses in this thread there is most certainly a load of assumptions about a hackintosh and what it is capable of.
Firstly updates are usually hacked and solutions are found in beta releases BEFORE an update even gets sent out. At most from what I have seen it takes the user 5 minutes in insanelymac forums and 5-15 minutes of tinkering to install a new update. Some updates requiring nothing more than a quick check to see if some work needs to be done before install. Not for everyone for sure but not the horror story some here would like you to believe. Unlike jailbreaking the iPod Touch or iPhone in which updates are the entire firmware with changes instead of just the changes to the firmware.
As far as "poopy cheap parts running OSX" I can not vouch for what is in this specific computer however you can most certainly buy just as good if not better hardware to build your hackintosh then what Apple puts in your mac. The beauty of it is that you really can't just slop together any system and install OSX, you have to use the same supported hardware.
Service and support. Hardware comes with a warranty even if you just buy a part from newegg. Maybe not as good as Apple but not the end of the world either. You have to install it yourself which means there is no chance of anyone else looking through your sensitive data when you send your entire computer in to the shop, some people prefer this.
At the end of the day a hackintosh is just filling a niche for Apple software fans. Its no threat to Apple at all. It will never be the solution to the xMac. Just don't tell me if I don't take the time to select hardware and apply the correct patches to Leopard before I install that I am somehow getting a lesser experience. Some people don't mind spending a few minutes tinkering before an update. Again really not for everyone but great for a few.
As far as legal reasoning.... First of all this has nothing to do with piracy. Some hackintosh users will pirate OSX, but some people pirated Leo to upgrade from Tiger. Hackintosh =/= piracy. Pirating OSX = piracy. Also leave the mention of stealing far away from piracy, not to defend it but you can't steal something that can be duplicated infinitely for free, thats just copyright infringement (different rant). This is just a breach of your agreement with Apple to use their software. No laws currently spell out in black and white what the legal status of breaching that agreement is. Once again, this is not stealing and this is not piracy and if you purchase OSX it's still making money for Apple.
Not for everyone which is clearly obvious from the lack of understanding of it but I sure as hell am all about it. I also like to purchase Apple hardware too (honestly!).
It's kind of sad to see the utter lack of understanding of pretty much anything about project OSx86. Judging by all the news sites offering this story and most of the responses in this thread there is most certainly a load of assumptions about a hackintosh and what it is capable of.
Firstly updates are usually hacked and solutions are found in beta releases BEFORE an update even gets sent out. At most from what I have seen it takes the user 5 minutes in insanelymac forums and 5-15 minutes of tinkering to install a new update. Some updates requiring nothing more than a quick check to see if some work needs to be done before install. Not for everyone for sure but not the horror story some here would like you to believe. Unlike jailbreaking the iPod Touch or iPhone in which updates are the entire firmware with changes instead of just the changes to the firmware.
As far as "poopy cheap parts running OSX" I can not vouch for what is in this specific computer however you can most certainly buy just as good if not better hardware to build your hackintosh then what Apple puts in your mac. The beauty of it is that you really can't just slop together any system and install OSX, you have to use the same supported hardware.
Service and support. Hardware comes with a warranty even if you just buy a part from newegg. Maybe not as good as Apple but not the end of the world either. You have to install it yourself which means there is no chance of anyone else looking through your sensitive data when you send your entire computer in to the shop, some people prefer this.
At the end of the day a hackintosh is just filling a niche for Apple software fans. Its no threat to Apple at all. It will never be the solution to the xMac. Just don't tell me if I don't take the time to select hardware and apply the correct patches to Leopard before I install that I am somehow getting a lesser experience. Some people don't mind spending a few minutes tinkering before an update. Again really not for everyone but great for a few.
As far as legal reasoning.... First of all this has nothing to do with piracy. Some hackintosh users will pirate OSX, but some people pirated Leo to upgrade from Tiger. Hackintosh =/= piracy. Pirating OSX = piracy. Also leave the mention of stealing far away from piracy, not to defend it but you can't steal something that can be duplicated infinitely for free, thats just copyright infringement (different rant). This is just a breach of your agreement with Apple to use their software. No laws currently spell out in black and white what the legal status of breaching that agreement is. Once again, this is not stealing and this is not piracy and if you purchase OSX it's still making money for Apple.
Not for everyone which is clearly obvious from the lack of understanding of it but I sure as hell am all about it. I also like to purchase Apple hardware too (honestly!).
Oh really? I would put down the slightly extra performance of your HackinCrap in favor of a Mac that doesn't require the headache of searching forums for patches every time Apple releases an update or for when a reformat is necessary.
You will always GET what you PAY for in this lifetime, don't try to make your Hackincrap out to be this great solution for many because it's not.
Try reading the threads on Macrumors every time Apple releases an OS update. You will find that all sorts of problems afflict "Macincraps", too. The difference being that your genuine grievance may be summarily deleted on Apple.com's forums depending upon Apple's willingness to acknowledge its fault or ability to deal with the problem it caused.
Correction. Your bog standard motherboard has a BIOS, not EFI. Hence any graphics card for which there are OSX drivers will work out of the box without reflashing. That cuts costs and risks.
Ummmm less than 10% market share makes a monopoly? I'm confussed
Apple has an absolute monopoly of the OSX market with regard to computers. With the exception of hackint0shes, something like 100%. What is so difficult to understand?
I am loving all of the "OMG it's so fugly" posts here. Especially when the iMacs and Mac Pros are so gorgeous. Apple definitely needs to produce a sock range for these just like it does for its iPods.
And Mars has 100% of the market for MarsBars. So should we sue them for anti-competitive behaviour?