Optical Thunderbolt 3 Cables Begin Rolling Out in Lengths Up to 50 Meters

[s66]

I wonder if there would be any improvement in latency for audio recording vs. a copper cable at ~10 feet each.

Speed of light ("c") is the limiting factor for how fast a signal propagates in both copper and optical fibre alike.

3 meters at the speed of light (almost 300000000 metres per second) is really negligible (about 10 nanoseconds)

The electronics in both connectors will however also induce some latency and that's more than likely be more than the length causes.

 

[s66]

Even the copper versions are not passing the signals directly.

There are passive TB3 cables (mostly limited to 0.5 m in length), once they go beyond that length, they'll not be able to do 40 Gbit/s anymore unless they are active.

Active cables even have firmware in them (e.g. the active cables delivered by Apple with an XDR display.)

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Can they not run copper along side the fiber for power?

I would say yes.
Thunderbolt 3 requires 0.55A at 18V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface))
And the calculation for the required wire thickness is here (https://www.rpc.com.au/pdf/Wire_Chart.pdf)

Acceptable voltage drop is 5% = 0.9V
Vd = 2 x L x I x R / A
A = 2 x L x I x R / Vd
= 2 x 50m x 0.55A x 0.017Ohms / 0.9V
= 1.04 mm^2
Area circle = Pi x r^2
r = Sqrt(Area/Pi)
= 0.575 mm
thus, diameter of copper wire required = 1.15mm

So you would need 2 wires, at least 1.15mm thick, one for +ve, and one for -ve.

 

[BayouTiger]

As a usage case I use a couple 10m TB2 cables to relocate an OWC dock across the room in my office to send HDMI to my TV as well as audio out to a DAC in my stereo rack. I was using another to connect my QNAP TB NAS, but like others mentioned, I abandoned that and just use 10GBe as TB networking is wonky as hell.

 

[s66]

Thunderbolt 3 requires 0.55A at 18V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface))

Those interested in power, mostly will be looking for the USB-PD standard on those ports, which goes up to 20Volt at 5Amp. (100W) You'd need a "bit" more copper.

But these cables IMHO are more aimed at people who connect bigger, more static devices and as such don't need or have much use for power delivery over data cables.

 

[RMo]

Considering both the price of the cable and the lengths they're offering--and many of the likely uses cases for it--you'd think they'd at least get some sort of in-wall rating for these (e.g., CL2, CL3, etc.). Alas, I don't see that in any of the product specs or descriptions. Oh, well. Definitely not something I have use for, anyway!

 

[composed]

Another big question: will these run the XDR in 6K ?
(which is TB3, but quite picky on how it's connected and e.g. doesn't allow an intermediate device and still run at 6K)

I can confirm that the Areca TB3 Optical Cables currently DO NOT support 6K resolution on the Apple Pro Display XDR. I purchased the 30m version, and also tested the shorter lengths with the company's sales rep, with my XDR and 2019 Mac Pro with Radeon Pro Vega II - we could only ever get 5K resolution on the XDR. This was with a virgin machine and with nothing other than bluetooth mouse/keyboard connected to it. Areca/Tekram is aware of the issue and has said that it is a cable firmware issue, and that they are currently trying to resolve. I would make sure to confirm with them that this is resolved before you purchase for use with an XDR display. I intended to use it for a remote display application and ultimately had to return the cable.

 

[Tech198]

lol..50 meters..

If signal degrades, why allow it ? Just gives excuses for those people who buy longer cables to get ** of later.

 

[jimthing]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ce-use-optical-thunderbolt-1-2-cables.2112230

^some of us have been wondering about this for months and months!
(keep comments on THIS NEW ANNOUNCEMENT thread please, so users can track all comments on one thread! My above thread is for older background information only...
e.g. there is a comment in there about why the overheating on some TB1/2 optical cables setups.)

Hope those prices are gonna come down though, as the starting price currently advertised for 10m TB3 is miles higher than the TB1/2 ones were (~$250), strangely with the longer lengths (20m/30m) on these TB3 ones being only marginally extra – weird??

 

[joevt]

Will DP run over this? Can I finally move me second display half a (american) football field away from me?
Great excuse to bust out my telescope.

USB doesn't work (480 Mbps, or 5 or 10 Gbps) so DisplayPort (5.4 Gbps or 8.1 Gbps) probably doesn't work either. But DisplayPort over Thunderbolt (10.3125 Gbps or 20.625 Gbps) should work - you need a Thunderbolt controller at the other end to convert Thunderbolt DisplayPort stream back to DisplayPort (Thunderbolt controller is built into Thunderbolt devices, displays, and docks). If the cable is so picky about signals it can transmit, then does that mean it won't be able to do USB4 (10 Gbps or 20 Gbps)?

 

[MacBH928]

If rumors are true, these will be outdated by the new USB 4's. Am I right?

 

[William Lawson]

Can anybody give examples of uses for these cables?

Professional audio and video applications and systems, also used with some medical devices.
[automerge]1585309944[/automerge]

If rumors are true, these will be outdated by the new USB 4's. Am I right?

No, USB 4 is the same thing basically but with native USB integration. same speed as welll 40Gb/s
[automerge]1585310362[/automerge]
Check out the Corning Thunderbolt 3 cables:

CriticalConnects - Innovative Connectivity For Every Critical Application

CriticalConnects offers a wide range of high-performance connectivity solutions for the most demanding applications.

www.criticalconnects.com

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I was at Home Despot months ago, and saw a small spool of wire, and looked at it. It was a 200' cat6 patch cord. 200 FEET? Why? It was covered in some dust, so it'd been there a while. If you need a 'patch cable' that long, aren't you doing something wrong? Yikes...

Well, it wasn't exactly 'small'. What drew my eye to it was the odd size. *shrug*

 

[cmaier]

Speed of light ("c") is the limiting factor for how fast a signal propagates in both copper and optical fibre alike.

3 meters at the speed of light (almost 300000000 metres per second) is really negligible (about 10 nanoseconds)

The electronics in both connectors will however also induce some latency and that's more than likely be more than the length causes.

Electrical signals move at around 6 picoseconds per mm of copper, btw.
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I was at Home Despot months ago, and saw a small spool of wire, and looked at it. It was a 200' cat6 patch cord. 200 FEET? Why? It was covered in some dust, so it'd been there a while. If you need a 'patch cable' that long, aren't you doing something wrong? Yikes...

Well, it wasn't exactly 'small'. What drew my eye to it was the odd size. *shrug*

it was actually terminated?
[automerge]1585315668[/automerge]

Considering both the price of the cable and the lengths they're offering--and many of the likely uses cases for it--you'd think they'd at least get some sort of in-wall rating for these (e.g., CL2, CL3, etc.). Alas, I don't see that in any of the product specs or descriptions. Oh, well. Definitely not something I have use for, anyway!

given that there is no electrical Current transmitter through these things , how would CL rating be relevant?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

it was actually terminated?

Yes, it was! Made me laugh...

Tangent: I had someone ask me how much wire they could pull through a conduit. I told them my best guess. They looked puzzled for a while. The said they couldn't get nearly that number through their conduit. It turns out, as anyone can guess, they were taping the terminated cable ends together and trying to pull that mess through the conduit. Yikes... I said 'DUH!!!'. Suggested they either pull them through individually, snip the ends off and pull them through and terminate after, get bigger conduit (bigger hammer plan), or try staggering them when they tape them together. Also suggested using a patch panel and jacks (which would have been problematic with stranded conductor on patch cables, but...) they thought using patch panels and jacks was 'too complicated'. *shrug* Fail to plan, or plan to fail?
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Speed of light ("c") is the limiting factor for how fast a signal propagates in both copper and optical fibre alike.

Light? Through copper wire? And fiber runs are longer using fiber optic cables, but still, 164' terminated cable? Wow... I think that if you have to do something like that, there could be a better way. *shrug* There are so many ways that could be damaged running that long. *shrug*

 

[joevt]

No, USB 4 is the same thing basically but with native USB integration. same speed as welll 40Gb/s

The USB4 spec says USB4 has different speed (10 or 20 Gbps per lane) than Thunderbolt (10.3125 or 20.625 Gbps per lane). The USB4 spec outlines what types of devices or what ports of a device (upward facing ports or downward facing ports) need to support Thunderbolt.

 

[ds10]

Can anybody give examples of uses for these cables?

Recording studios are an example. In my own studio, I can have my computer in the room (we use a shared control room /booth setup) but the external Thunderbolt 3 drives are loud enough to be picked up by microphones. Today, we shut down the external drives, record to Flash, then power up the drives and move the project files over. With optical cabling, I'd be able to locate the drives outside the room.

Larger studios put the computers and drives outside the control room, which is great except the audio interfaces usually need to be in the control room. The audio interfaces are often Thunderbolt devices these days. So one way or another, having optical cables can be a help for recording.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Those interested in power, mostly will be looking for the USB-PD standard on those ports, which goes up to 20Volt at 5Amp. (100W) You'd need a "bit" more copper.

But these cables IMHO are more aimed at people who connect bigger, more static devices and as such don't need or have much use for power delivery over data cables.

The power you are talking about is charging power to charge a battery, which you'd want if the cable was for a charger, which doesn't need data exchange e.g. a laptop charger. The power I am talking about is power to run a simple device with no battery or charger, and to run data simultaneously, e.g. an external drive. These cables are data cables, not charging cables, so most uses would only need the lower power spec.

Sure, you could make a cable that could provide both data exchange and full power charging capabilities, and yep, it would need to be thicker. The current is multiplied by 10, and everything else is roughly identical, so an increased area of a factor of 10, which comes out to a slightly chunky 3.5mm thick copper wire.

So a 50m data cable with 10W power rating requires 2 x 1.15mm diameter copper wires, and with 100W rating 2 x 3.5mm diameter. There is no reason why a company couldn't make both of those options, along with the zero power option. But realistically, if you wanted 100W or more, you'd be running a separate power cable anyway, mostly because it would be much cheaper than such a specialised integrated cable.

 

[BayouTiger]

Electrical signals move at around 6 picoseconds per mm of copper, btw.
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it was actually terminated?
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given that there is no electrical Current transmitter through these things , how would CL rating be relevant?

the CL rating is about the Jacket materialand fire resistance and the smoke given off along with the insulation rating.

 

[cmaier]

the CL rating is about the Jacket materialand fire resistance and the smoke given off along with the insulation rating.

Sure, but the reason you worry about that is because the current can cause a fire. Light can’t.

CL2 or CL3 cable jacket ratings refer to class 2 or class 3 circuits (See the NEC). But these cables don’t form circuits.

 

[MacBH928]

Professional audio and video applications and systems, also used with some medical devices.
[automerge]1585309944[/automerge]

No, USB 4 is the same thing basically but with native USB integration. same speed as welll 40Gb/s
[automerge]1585310362[/automerge]
Check out the Corning Thunderbolt 3 cables:

CriticalConnects - Innovative Connectivity For Every Critical Application

CriticalConnects offers a wide range of high-performance connectivity solutions for the most demanding applications.

www.criticalconnects.com

Why do we need a dedicated thunderbolt if USB4 can do the same and more, especially considering thunderbolt is more expensive?

 

[joevt]

Why do we need a dedicated thunderbolt if USB4 can do the same and more, especially considering thunderbolt is more expensive?

USB4 isn't out yet. We don't know how much it will cost. Maybe there needs to be a dedicated Thunderbolt cable because it's not possible to make it work for both Thunderbolt and USB4 speeds or supporting both in the same cable would make it more expensive or they don't have a USB4 device to test yet.

 

[BayouTiger]

Sure, but the reason you worry about that is because the current can cause a fire. Light can’t.

CL2 or CL3 cable jacket ratings refer to class 2 or class 3 circuits (See the NEC). But these cables don’t form circuits.

thats part of it, and indicated by the numbers, the jacket ratings are about the fumes given off when it burns and applies whether or not it is current carrying. Jacket still has to be rated for Risers or Plenums if so installed, and rated for the voltage of adjacent conductors if run with them. Comes into play if you arerunning in walls or ceilings. Most commercial ceilings are plenums these days.

 

[teejaysplace24]

I don't care about 50 metres, but can you give me a TB3 connector configured at 90 degrees, so I don't have to constantly wrench on the Macbook Pro's oh-so-delicate ports*? Bonus points if it maybe has an optional mag connector? I have been searching for months and, while I found a usable USB Type C adapter after several attempts, there are still zero TB3 certified 90 degree adapters or cables available.

(*Note...just upgraded to the 2020 16" MBP model from the 2018 15" model and, as some users have observed, the ports do seem a little snugger. Whether this will last with extended use is TBD; however, for the present, it is a welcome change. On the 15" model, I had but to gently bump my desk and the eGPU, and everything attached, would immediately disconnect. Happened at least 1-2x a day. Connecting after startup wasn't much better, either‚ about 50% of the time the display would actually fire up on the first try. On the 16" model, however, the connection seems secure and it it has, thus far, connected to the eGPU and routed video signals normally every time. Only took three years...)

 

[joevt]

I don't care about 50 metres, but can you give me a TB3 connector configured at 90 degrees, so I don't have to constantly wrench on the Macbook Pro's oh-so-delicate ports*? Bonus points if it maybe has an optional mag connector? I have been searching for months and, while I found a usable USB Type C adapter after several attempts, there are still zero TB3 certified 90 degree adapters or cables available.

Adapters or cables with female USB-C connectors will never be "certified" but they do work. I was able to connect five 90-degree-angle-usb-c-adapter together and still get 40 Gbps.

There is a kickstarter/indiegogo for a MagSafe type USB-C connector (the description lists competitor adapters as well). I don't know if they work or how to get one.

MagSafe makes a full comeback for your USB-C MacBooks

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www.engadget.com